I would probably epoxy it and I'd coat all the pieces in epoxy as these pieces often get wet. It's common to run a piece of metal all the way across the inside of the back piece to bolt those brackets to. There's a lot of tension on them due to the torsion bars. I've got a thread on here about replacing the front 'side' on our Northstar TS1000 which has a similar roof. I didn't use plywood. I used treated lumber. I replaced the front side without removing the roof so it can be done with the roof on the camper
1984 Skamper
- Thread starter 85_Ranger4x4
- Start date
Roof repair Northstar TS1000
The front 'side' of the my roof has some serious delamination and rot. The other three sides seem pretty solid. How easy is it to remove that front piece and splice in a new one? It has to be easier than the back since there's no lift mechanism attached to it. I've considered just bolting...
expeditionportal.com
85_Ranger4x4
Well-known member
To those that have gone down this road before, please tell me how good my research is!
On facebook a guy shared a writeup on how to fix this style of lift system (HECO) Somebody gave it to him so he didn't write it and nobody really knows where it came from. In all my research I never found anything better for a play by play on how to do this. Sounds pretty plausible though, this is a direct copy/paste from the email:
"To repair the rear backboard, leaving the roof mounted to the camper, the first thing to do is raise the roof and remove the tension of the torsion bars. The torsion lift system uses a rear “set” bracket to provide the twist to the torsion bars to help raise the roof. In the neutral position (off the camper) the set is usually about 7 degrees. This means the roof bar’s 2 drop legs will tilt out at 7 degrees if the roof was off and sat upside down.
When the roof is raised, place blocks under the sides of the roof for support to keep it up. You can either cut 2x4’s and jam them up off the lower body to the bulb seal or use full length boards off the ground.
Then the lift bars will need to be disconnected from the front rack crank mechanism and the rear pivot support. Remove the bolt from the pivot in the rear and then the one in the front lift bar. This will free the lower support “U” bar. That’s the you need to support the roof being up with 2x4 blocks.
The next step is to release the tension of the torsion bars in the upper part of the system. This usually takes 2 people. The front straight bar that is slid over the roof drop leg is bolted to the front rack at the foot of the bed, Remove the ¼ hex screw that sets the height of that bar to the drop leg because it will need to be pulled off. Once that screw is removed and the front lower bolt is removed from the front rack, a second person needs to grab the drop bar in the rear of the camper and use it as a lever to pull in enough to provide the angle to slide the long front bar off the upper drop leg. Once that long tube is slid off, the back bar can return to is neutral position. The bottom part of the leg with angle out towards the tent. Now all tension is off the rear corner set bracket in the back of the roof.
This must be done on both sides if the back board is so rotted the entire back needs to be replaced. If it is just one corner, the opposite side can be left as is.
Now, the deconstruction can begin to get to the rotted plywood. The canvas tent will need to be dropped in the corner. Some of the older campers stapled and screwed the tent to the interior of the roof, some used a plastic extrusion to clip the tent in with a tab sewn to the top of the tent. Once the tent is dropped to expose the interior corner, the rear steel set bracket can be removed. The cast corners on each side needs to be removed next. There may be a screw set straight up from the inside to hold the very top lip of the corner in place, some manufacturers only used the rivets in the exterior extrusion and silicone to hold the corners.
To remove the “h” extrusion, the bulb seal needs to be pulled out of the track and the screws holding it in place need to be removed. I have left the clearance light wires hold the extrusion while I repair the plywood, but it is much more convenient to get it out of the way by disconnecting the wires from the side markers. The R.O.L lights use a brass finger to hold the wire pushed in from the backside. If you pop the lens off, you can use a screwdriver to lift the brass finger holding the wires and pull it out of the back of the light.
There may be a small steel angle bracket in the corner also that will need to be removed too!
Now the entire back corner should be exposed. This is when I determine which repair method is needed.
If the plywood is dry and hard across the back except right in the very corner, you can just splice in new plywood. If the rot extends towards the center or if bother corners show rot, the entire back section needs to be replaced.
Replacing just the corner will involve cutting the back board where the rot stops to remove all the soft material. Then cut though one layer of the plywood back board about a foot from the end of the previous cut. This will give the replacement board support for slicing it back into place.
Once all the soft, rotted plywood is removed from the repair area, sand away as much of the epoxy left on the inside of the roof metal.
If the entire back plywood back board is going to be replaced, just get the metal as smooth as possible to hold the adhesive to the new back board.
The replacement wood needs to be 1” thick and it is usually 2 pieces of 1’2” plywood glued and fastened together. The replacement piece on the single corner fix will need to have 2 different length ½” boards. One the length of the original cut to the corner and the second, longer piece to reach the cut of the second one layer of plywood. That longer tongue provides the bonding area to keep the repair board straight and strong. Using high strength adhesive like Sika Flex , bond the new replacement piece to the existing back board and roof metal. Clamp in place until dry.
Screws can help hold the plywood splice also.
Now the roof can be reassembled in the reverse steps. The rear corner set bracket needs to be installed horizontal to the back wall. This will allow the torsion bar to provide the correct lift pressure. On some of the older campers, I noticed that only ¼” bolts where used to hold the bracket to the back wall. I replace those with 5/16” bolts.
There have been a couple roofs that had very little rot in the corners, but the mounting bolts were beginning to twist under pressure. With that little damage, I could use thin steel plate the width of the corner set bracket for the repair. I bent the plate at a 90-degree angle with legs long enough to bite into solid wood on both the side and rear. I used a multi hole pattern of 3/16” holes to mount the plate into place and used the corner bracket to mark the holes needed to mount that. That gave the rear corner enough reinforcement to hold for many years"
Ok, that is a pile of words. Me dumb caveman, me like pitchures.
Taking the part about demo:
To repair the rear backboard, leaving the roof mounted to the camper, the first thing to do is raise the roof and remove the tension of the torsion bars. The torsion lift system uses a rear “set” bracket to provide the twist to the torsion bars to help raise the roof. In the neutral position (off the camper) the set is usually about 7 degrees.
This means the roof bar’s 2 drop legs will tilt out at 7 degrees if the roof was off and sat upside down.
When the roof is raised, place blocks under the sides of the roof for support to keep it up. You can either cut 2x4’s and jam them up off the lower body to the bulb seal or use full length boards off the ground.
Then the lift bars will need to be disconnected from the front rack crank mechanism and the rear pivot support. Remove the bolt from the pivot in the rear and then the one in the front lift bar. This will free the lower support “U” bar. That’s the you need to support the roof being up with 2x4 blocks.
The next step is to release the tension of the torsion bars in the upper part of the system. This usually takes 2 people. The front straight bar that is slid over the roof drop leg is bolted to the front rack at the foot of the bed, Remove the ¼ hex screw that sets the height of that bar to the drop leg because it will need to be pulled off. Once that screw is removed and the front lower bolt is removed from the front rack, a second person needs to grab the drop bar in the rear of the camper and use it as a lever to pull in enough to provide the angle to slide the long front bar off the upper drop leg. Once that long tube is slid off, the back bar can return to is neutral position. The bottom part of the leg with angle out towards the tent. Now all tension is off the rear corner set bracket in the back of the roof.
Sound about right?
The rear bar has the tension? I read somewhere if you don't relive the tension right you can screw up the roof more... that is scary. I don't want this to go all trebuchet on me as I am trying to take it apart...
Easier to just pull the roof off than try to fix it without the roof falling off the camper?
On facebook a guy shared a writeup on how to fix this style of lift system (HECO) Somebody gave it to him so he didn't write it and nobody really knows where it came from. In all my research I never found anything better for a play by play on how to do this. Sounds pretty plausible though, this is a direct copy/paste from the email:
"To repair the rear backboard, leaving the roof mounted to the camper, the first thing to do is raise the roof and remove the tension of the torsion bars. The torsion lift system uses a rear “set” bracket to provide the twist to the torsion bars to help raise the roof. In the neutral position (off the camper) the set is usually about 7 degrees. This means the roof bar’s 2 drop legs will tilt out at 7 degrees if the roof was off and sat upside down.
When the roof is raised, place blocks under the sides of the roof for support to keep it up. You can either cut 2x4’s and jam them up off the lower body to the bulb seal or use full length boards off the ground.
Then the lift bars will need to be disconnected from the front rack crank mechanism and the rear pivot support. Remove the bolt from the pivot in the rear and then the one in the front lift bar. This will free the lower support “U” bar. That’s the you need to support the roof being up with 2x4 blocks.
The next step is to release the tension of the torsion bars in the upper part of the system. This usually takes 2 people. The front straight bar that is slid over the roof drop leg is bolted to the front rack at the foot of the bed, Remove the ¼ hex screw that sets the height of that bar to the drop leg because it will need to be pulled off. Once that screw is removed and the front lower bolt is removed from the front rack, a second person needs to grab the drop bar in the rear of the camper and use it as a lever to pull in enough to provide the angle to slide the long front bar off the upper drop leg. Once that long tube is slid off, the back bar can return to is neutral position. The bottom part of the leg with angle out towards the tent. Now all tension is off the rear corner set bracket in the back of the roof.
This must be done on both sides if the back board is so rotted the entire back needs to be replaced. If it is just one corner, the opposite side can be left as is.
Now, the deconstruction can begin to get to the rotted plywood. The canvas tent will need to be dropped in the corner. Some of the older campers stapled and screwed the tent to the interior of the roof, some used a plastic extrusion to clip the tent in with a tab sewn to the top of the tent. Once the tent is dropped to expose the interior corner, the rear steel set bracket can be removed. The cast corners on each side needs to be removed next. There may be a screw set straight up from the inside to hold the very top lip of the corner in place, some manufacturers only used the rivets in the exterior extrusion and silicone to hold the corners.
To remove the “h” extrusion, the bulb seal needs to be pulled out of the track and the screws holding it in place need to be removed. I have left the clearance light wires hold the extrusion while I repair the plywood, but it is much more convenient to get it out of the way by disconnecting the wires from the side markers. The R.O.L lights use a brass finger to hold the wire pushed in from the backside. If you pop the lens off, you can use a screwdriver to lift the brass finger holding the wires and pull it out of the back of the light.
There may be a small steel angle bracket in the corner also that will need to be removed too!
Now the entire back corner should be exposed. This is when I determine which repair method is needed.
If the plywood is dry and hard across the back except right in the very corner, you can just splice in new plywood. If the rot extends towards the center or if bother corners show rot, the entire back section needs to be replaced.
Replacing just the corner will involve cutting the back board where the rot stops to remove all the soft material. Then cut though one layer of the plywood back board about a foot from the end of the previous cut. This will give the replacement board support for slicing it back into place.
Once all the soft, rotted plywood is removed from the repair area, sand away as much of the epoxy left on the inside of the roof metal.
If the entire back plywood back board is going to be replaced, just get the metal as smooth as possible to hold the adhesive to the new back board.
The replacement wood needs to be 1” thick and it is usually 2 pieces of 1’2” plywood glued and fastened together. The replacement piece on the single corner fix will need to have 2 different length ½” boards. One the length of the original cut to the corner and the second, longer piece to reach the cut of the second one layer of plywood. That longer tongue provides the bonding area to keep the repair board straight and strong. Using high strength adhesive like Sika Flex , bond the new replacement piece to the existing back board and roof metal. Clamp in place until dry.
Screws can help hold the plywood splice also.
Now the roof can be reassembled in the reverse steps. The rear corner set bracket needs to be installed horizontal to the back wall. This will allow the torsion bar to provide the correct lift pressure. On some of the older campers, I noticed that only ¼” bolts where used to hold the bracket to the back wall. I replace those with 5/16” bolts.
There have been a couple roofs that had very little rot in the corners, but the mounting bolts were beginning to twist under pressure. With that little damage, I could use thin steel plate the width of the corner set bracket for the repair. I bent the plate at a 90-degree angle with legs long enough to bite into solid wood on both the side and rear. I used a multi hole pattern of 3/16” holes to mount the plate into place and used the corner bracket to mark the holes needed to mount that. That gave the rear corner enough reinforcement to hold for many years"
Ok, that is a pile of words. Me dumb caveman, me like pitchures.
Taking the part about demo:
To repair the rear backboard, leaving the roof mounted to the camper, the first thing to do is raise the roof and remove the tension of the torsion bars. The torsion lift system uses a rear “set” bracket to provide the twist to the torsion bars to help raise the roof. In the neutral position (off the camper) the set is usually about 7 degrees.
This means the roof bar’s 2 drop legs will tilt out at 7 degrees if the roof was off and sat upside down.
When the roof is raised, place blocks under the sides of the roof for support to keep it up. You can either cut 2x4’s and jam them up off the lower body to the bulb seal or use full length boards off the ground.
Then the lift bars will need to be disconnected from the front rack crank mechanism and the rear pivot support. Remove the bolt from the pivot in the rear and then the one in the front lift bar. This will free the lower support “U” bar. That’s the you need to support the roof being up with 2x4 blocks.
The next step is to release the tension of the torsion bars in the upper part of the system. This usually takes 2 people. The front straight bar that is slid over the roof drop leg is bolted to the front rack at the foot of the bed, Remove the ¼ hex screw that sets the height of that bar to the drop leg because it will need to be pulled off. Once that screw is removed and the front lower bolt is removed from the front rack, a second person needs to grab the drop bar in the rear of the camper and use it as a lever to pull in enough to provide the angle to slide the long front bar off the upper drop leg. Once that long tube is slid off, the back bar can return to is neutral position. The bottom part of the leg with angle out towards the tent. Now all tension is off the rear corner set bracket in the back of the roof.
Sound about right?
The rear bar has the tension? I read somewhere if you don't relive the tension right you can screw up the roof more... that is scary. I don't want this to go all trebuchet on me as I am trying to take it apart...
Easier to just pull the roof off than try to fix it without the roof falling off the camper?
Last edited:
85_Ranger4x4
Well-known member
Ant guestimations on what the roof weighs?
AKA how many volunteers will I need to set the roof off?
AKA how many volunteers will I need to set the roof off?
85_Ranger4x4
Well-known member
Just thinking out loud, the thing is like 8' off the ground popped up. If I could just lay the roof upside down on a couple folding tables it would be a lot easier to work on if it wasn't too much of a Pita to get it there.
Following; I'm interested in how this goes. I have a Skamper 100s and the torsion bar is disconnected...the bracket on the rear is simply missing on both sides. I'd guess the bracket blew through the roof at some point and the previous owner simply removed it. Perhaps that same previous owner fixed the roof (no current leaks) but raising it is a huge pain in the butt without the torsion assist.
If you take yours off, I'd really appreciate any pictures of the torsion brackets and attachment. I'm thinking I'll have to remake mine in the rear. I contacted HECO (Harmony Enterprises in MN) yesterday, who informed me they sold their lift business to Camper and Recreation Inc. in Loyal, WI (canvasreplacements.com), who doesn't list much in terms of replacement parts for the HECO lift system beyond stuff for the rack and pinion crank system. I'm planning to call Camp and Rec on Monday to see what they still have; even engineering drawings would be helpful.
Also, your Ranger is cool as hell. Makes me kind of want to get a bullnose Ford for my 100s. The 100s looks a bit tiny on my quad cab 97 F350 but would match right up with an early 80s standard cab F250.
If you take yours off, I'd really appreciate any pictures of the torsion brackets and attachment. I'm thinking I'll have to remake mine in the rear. I contacted HECO (Harmony Enterprises in MN) yesterday, who informed me they sold their lift business to Camper and Recreation Inc. in Loyal, WI (canvasreplacements.com), who doesn't list much in terms of replacement parts for the HECO lift system beyond stuff for the rack and pinion crank system. I'm planning to call Camp and Rec on Monday to see what they still have; even engineering drawings would be helpful.
Also, your Ranger is cool as hell. Makes me kind of want to get a bullnose Ford for my 100s. The 100s looks a bit tiny on my quad cab 97 F350 but would match right up with an early 80s standard cab F250.
85_Ranger4x4
Well-known member
How does a person keep the roof from just falling off when they replace that back board with both sides disconnected? Just build stands that go to the ground?
I don't see it teetering on four 2x4's very long?
85_Ranger4x4
Well-known member
Last edited:
85_Ranger4x4
Well-known member
Starting demo, anyone have any pointers on getting the aluminum channels off the roof side boards?
I have since cut the wires and got the two pieces of plywood seperated more but it is too swelled to come easily and possibly too much sealer between the skin and the channel.
I have since cut the wires and got the two pieces of plywood seperated more but it is too swelled to come easily and possibly too much sealer between the skin and the channel.
85_Ranger4x4
Well-known member
Yeah, bottom and back.
Idea last night was to get a box cutter and see if it is glued on with sealant around the outer lip.
Hauling brush tonight so I haven't tried it yet.
Idea last night was to get a box cutter and see if it is glued on with sealant around the outer lip.
Hauling brush tonight so I haven't tried it yet.