1985 FJ 85 - Australian Market import

[kchristian]

Not sure whether or not "title flipping" is legal here in Utah but it's very common and not an immediate cause for alarm. I've purchased dozens of vehicles on a signed title with a different name on the bill of sale, i.e. they never titled it in their name. Non-issue and the DMV's here don't care. In some cases I know they were buying/selling to turn a buck, I'm fine with that if the buck I pay is still appropriate. In other cases it's a vehicle they purchased to build, part out, restore, drive, etc and things change and so long as it has a clean title, why do I lose sleep? I take no liability due to their failure to swap the title. Mattress tags are of more concern

Of course California makes you pay the title transfer if you transfer it to a family member or partner, they need the $$$, doesn't make it a bad Cruiser.

I purchased a truck when I was living in Utah. I ended up finding something I liked better before I transferred the title, paid sales tax etc... I went to the DMV and after getting half way through the process of doing all that, the guy working there realized I was just going to resell it. He tore up the forms and told me not to worry about it. I was stoked. It saved me $250.00.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I purchased a truck when I was living in Utah. I ended up finding something I liked better before I transferred the title, paid sales tax etc... I went to the DMV and after getting half way through the process of doing all that, the guy working there realized I was just going to resell it. He tore up the forms and told me not to worry about it. I was stoked. It saved me $250.00.

Cool

Just sold a vehicle today () but in the process I noticed a Utah title acutally has a spot for re-assignment of title. So, I sign as the seller, the buyer signs below me. But then it has an entire second set of buyer/seller sections for a re-assignment from the buyer above. So while I'm still not sure it is 100% legal by the code... it is made completely easy by the states own title.

Here is the back fwiw:
http://www.carsforprostatecancer.org/titles/utah_1_back.jpg

 

[DieselFreak]

Cool

Just sold a vehicle today () but in the process I noticed a Utah title acutally has a spot for re-assignment of title. So, I sign as the seller, the buyer signs below me. But then it has an entire second set of buyer/seller sections for a re-assignment from the buyer above. So while I'm still not sure it is 100% legal by the code... it is made completely easy by the states own title.

Here is the back fwiw:
http://www.carsforprostatecancer.org/titles/utah_1_back.jpg

Title Flipping is illegal in Utah as well. Utah DMV calls it "curbstoning", but it is the same thing. It is also sometimes called "title jumping". There is also some good advice on how to spot these guys, and important questions to ask. Basically the stuff I already said in previous posts.

http://dmv.utah.gov/buying-selling/private-party

There is a toll-free hotline to report curbstoning on the website. Sounds like they take it pretty serious in Utah as well.

In my experience looking at cars on CL, I've had multiple negative encounters with Title Flippers. Obvious fraud (odometer rollback), unreported poorly repaired vehicle damage, Lying about repairs or maintenance which was never done, significant undisclosed mechanical problems, etc..

I'm done dealing with these clowns. They will lie to your face and do anything to sell you the car. Some people are shameless.

 

[proper4wd]

Diesel Freak, if what you say is true then why are there places for multiple successive reassignments on the back of the title? This is the same in Massachusetts. I also know the DMV laws in my own state very well (I worked in the new car business for many years).

Often times, vehicles would change hands MANY times without being re-titled and certainly not registered. For example, customer trades vehicle in, signs back of title. Dealer 1 sends the car to the auction, auction sells the car to dealer 2, dealer 2 sells the car to a new owner, and only then is it re-titled to the new owner.

You may be right that Californias laws are different (I dont know) but you are making blanket statements that arent true.

Edit: the Utah "curbstoning" law is about unlicensed car dealers and says nothing about it being illegal to transfer a title. All states have laws against unlicensed dealers, in Massachusetts I think you are considered a dealer and required to be licensed after selling 3 or more cars in a given year. This has nothing to do with title law, though!

 

[proper4wd]

See section 11.035:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/co...;CACHEID=2b146e18-1d9e-4d1c-b2a0-f454029b92a6

Please stop spreading misinformation

 

[DieselFreak]

See section 11.035:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/co...&CACHEID=2b146e18-1d9e-4d1c-b2a0-f454029b92a6

Please stop spreading misinformation

Did you even bother to read the CA transfer procedures you linked too above? Because it says EXACTLY what I did. I highlighted it for you, in red ink, as it appears you have poor reading comprehension.

Who is the one spreading misinformation again?

 

[proper4wd]

Did you even read the section that I referenced?

Please tell me why, if multiple transfers of the same title is illegal, there is a section of the title law that specifically tells you HOW to do it!

I understand you may have a grudge against "title flippers" but that does not make your opinions factually correct.

 

[DieselFreak]

Did you even read the section that I referenced?

Please tell me why, if multiple transfers of the same title is illegal, there is a section of the title law that specifically tells you HOW to do it!

I understand you may have a grudge against "title flippers" but that does not make your opinions factually correct.

What I perceive in this clause, multiple transfers are legal between individuals IF they fall within the 10 day deadline. A title can only "float" between owners for 10 days, at that point it must be registered with DMV with the final transferee as the new owner.

From the document:

A transferee has 10 days from the receipt of a properly endorsed title to submit the title and transfer fee to the department and thereby make application for a transfer of registration.

Title flippers don't fill out the buyer part of the title. It is left blank so they are breaking CA law regardless of this technicality.

I also found this quote from CA DMV:

DMV Information On Curbstoning

· Curbstoning is the repeated, unlicensed “flipping” of used cars for profit.

· Curbstoners are people who actively and regularly buy and sell vehicles without a license, proper permits or a legally established place of business and who, many times, represent themselves as private sellers in order to attract buyers.

Nuisance: Curbstoners often turn high traffic areas into instant parking lots, lining up cars at gas stations, supermarkets, convenience stores, on private property or even the side of the road. They deprive shoppers of places to park and the inconvenience and unsightliness drives away business.

Fraud: Consumers can easily become victims of fraud involving issues like Odometer Tampering, Undisclosed Frame Damage or Salvage Rebuilt Vehicles, Faulty Safety Devices, Mechanics or Promissory Liens and other problems that may not be truthfully disclosed at the time of sale. A consumer has no recourse!

Criminal: The most common crime committed by Curbstoners is Tax Fraud. When an unsuspecting customer buys a car, the curbstoner will leave the title blank or “open.” Without the curbstoner’s name on the document, they are able to pocket the money (usually cash) and avoid paying State Sales Tax, Federal Income Tax and any other declarations that are legally required.

· Be suspicious of cars and vehicles suddenly parked in undesignated areas.

· Monitor free advertising sites, like Craigslist, for cases in which the same contact phone number appears on various private-party listings.

· Compare contact information on ‘For Sale’ signs to see if it is the same.

· Verify the name on the Certificate of Ownership (title) matches the seller’s name.

· Steer away from sellers who accept only cash and refuse checks or money orders.

· A curbstoner will not let you have the vehicle independently inspected or provide maintenance records that match the car.

· A curbstoner will not allow you to conduct a CarFax report because it will detail if the vehicle was sold at auction.

Source: http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2014/04/24/call-kurtis-investigates-illegal-car-flippers/

 

[joe12pack]

My last comment on this whole thread is if the guy bought it for cheap and can market it better and flips it... good for him. I don't mind. All the brokers in the world make their lively hood of people not knowing the value of what they own. He might be breaking rules in not giving the greedy government their cut. Making non-commercial drivers get licenses is also a scam. The original intent of licensing was for commercial drivers since they used the public roads for commerce but they extended that to non-commercial drivers.

I did ask him if his name was on title AND registered to him and he said yes. So he could be lying but if I win I can find out.

Getting back to this auction... what do you guys think about it? It's up to $24,100. It looks like museum quality but paying $24k+ on 30 year old truck.... seems nuts but there's nothing out there like it.

The other option is to buy a Dodge Ram 3.0 Diesel that can get 30 mpg freeway and has 420 lbs of torque and all the modern ammenities for $35k.

 

[1911]

Getting back to this auction... what do you guys think about it? It's up to $24,100. It looks like museum quality but paying $24k+ on 30 year old truck.... seems nuts but there's nothing out there like it.

The other option is to buy a Dodge Ram 3.0 Diesel that can get 30 mpg freeway and has 420 lbs of torque and all the modern ammenities for $35k.

Sure, it's all a matter of individual taste and personal preference. I have two 30-year-old Land Cruisers, and I wouldn't trade either one of them for a brand-new Chrysler of any kind, but YMMV. But I wouldn't pay that kind of money for a used 70-series either.