Jeepin' Pete
Member
Yeah, that makes sense. I am always swayed by the classic look, but in the end form < function. I like that the Rhino Rack stuff doesn't have side bars so a sheet of plywood would fit nicely.
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Build
- Thread starter Jeepin' Pete
- Start date
Yeah, that makes sense. I am always swayed by the classic look, but in the end form < function. I like that the Rhino Rack stuff doesn't have side bars so a sheet of plywood would fit nicely.
Jeepin' Pete
Member
I'm in the process of re-doing the whole interior, and progress is slow as I just have too many projects going on. The old carpet was really, really bad, and the seats were cut up so this was a necessary first step according to my wife. There was some rust on the floorboards, but only three holes all the way though, all smaller than a dime. The rest was surface rust that bubbled up the paint. I wire wheeled all the rust away to bare metal, rust converter primed it, and will finish with a Rustoleum flat black top coat. I also plan on doing the same to the frame rails and as much of the underside of the body as I can get to.
I am also laying down sound deadening before the carpet goes in. I'm using MESA on the floors (just because it's what my local stereo shop had in stock when I started) and the more economical Noico 80 mil on the roof. I also plan on using Reflectix on the roof, cab side of the firewall, and trans tunnel to help with heat. (I only have the trunk area done in the picture below.) The front seat bolts were rough to get out! - I had to cut two and will probably have to drill new through holes if I still can't get the remnants out after a few days of soaking in PB Blaster.
Went with the mass-backed carpet kit from BJ's and their Katzkin seat kit as well. The seats were pricey, but significantly less than having an upholstery shop do it. Also, all the power seat functions still work, and I think the less modern look of the stock seats fits the vehicle. We chose mahogany with ivory contrast stitching. I've only done the center console and the headrests so far (just had to do a little last night when they came in!) and I'm really happy with the colors and the material - the leather is buttery soft! I'm hoping with a leather conditioner/protectant it will hold up to normal abuse. Here is the before / after of the center console and one of the headrests:
Also got some seat heater kits for the front seats - has anyone does this before on a FSJ? Curious where the best/easiest place to get keyed power is...
Hopefully the carpet will get shipped soon and the whole interior can go back together!
I am also laying down sound deadening before the carpet goes in. I'm using MESA on the floors (just because it's what my local stereo shop had in stock when I started) and the more economical Noico 80 mil on the roof. I also plan on using Reflectix on the roof, cab side of the firewall, and trans tunnel to help with heat. (I only have the trunk area done in the picture below.) The front seat bolts were rough to get out! - I had to cut two and will probably have to drill new through holes if I still can't get the remnants out after a few days of soaking in PB Blaster.
Went with the mass-backed carpet kit from BJ's and their Katzkin seat kit as well. The seats were pricey, but significantly less than having an upholstery shop do it. Also, all the power seat functions still work, and I think the less modern look of the stock seats fits the vehicle. We chose mahogany with ivory contrast stitching. I've only done the center console and the headrests so far (just had to do a little last night when they came in!) and I'm really happy with the colors and the material - the leather is buttery soft! I'm hoping with a leather conditioner/protectant it will hold up to normal abuse. Here is the before / after of the center console and one of the headrests:
Also got some seat heater kits for the front seats - has anyone does this before on a FSJ? Curious where the best/easiest place to get keyed power is...
Hopefully the carpet will get shipped soon and the whole interior can go back together!
cody_roberts
New member
Wow , looking forward to this build. Love the wagoneers . Definitely following.
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Jeepin' Pete
Member
Thanks!
My wonderful wife helped me last night and we got the back seat covered. It wasn't too bad, the seat bottom had a bunch of hog rings and the seat back was actually just 3 zippers. I'm pretty sure the few wrinkles that are left will lessen when the seat is actually sat on and out in the heat. Until then, we have a really nice bench in our apartment!
1979bettywhite
Member
Sounds almost exactly what I experienced with my interior work. I choose to use POR 15 on my floors. I also went ahead and did the area under the kick plates as well. I am almost positive you are talking about the rear most seat bracket bolts on both the driver and passenger side closest to the door. Those are the same two that were completely seized on mine. I drilled them out and just through bolted that bolt location on both.
I choose to go the new seat route for my front seats, but the leather looks great on those Katzkin! Should be nice for quite a while. But I would be afraid to get them dirty!
I did the Noico 80 mil on my passenger area and the roof. Choose not to do the cargo area....yet. May go back and do it. Also used Reflectix on the roof as well. Heck, I even did reflectix on the door panels. But I don't know that I would do that again as it makes everything a little tighter going back together. And since I have window cranks, it made them a bit stiffer.
Go ahead and remove your roof ribs when you do the roof. Run the sound deadening and reflectix the whole length. Putting the ribs back in can be a challenge, so having an extra set of hands help. You just want to try and get them back up there snug to the roof. But with the added sound deadening and reflectix it makes it pretty tight. Need one person pushing up and one securing the torx bolts. I did it myself but would be better with a helper.
I believe there may be some threads on either IFSJA or FSJnetwork on the heated seat install. But if it were me, I would just probe around the fuse box with a multimeter and find a 12v switched source, then run a couple relays for the power for the heaters.
Also, you may want to think about the console route. I like the comfort of the original console, but there is no storage and no cup holders. Something to consider.
Interesting that both your wife and my gf insisted on getting the interior work done first, lol. I guess if we want to have them along on our crazy FSJ journey, we should try and make them happy!
I choose to go the new seat route for my front seats, but the leather looks great on those Katzkin! Should be nice for quite a while. But I would be afraid to get them dirty!
I did the Noico 80 mil on my passenger area and the roof. Choose not to do the cargo area....yet. May go back and do it. Also used Reflectix on the roof as well. Heck, I even did reflectix on the door panels. But I don't know that I would do that again as it makes everything a little tighter going back together. And since I have window cranks, it made them a bit stiffer.
Go ahead and remove your roof ribs when you do the roof. Run the sound deadening and reflectix the whole length. Putting the ribs back in can be a challenge, so having an extra set of hands help. You just want to try and get them back up there snug to the roof. But with the added sound deadening and reflectix it makes it pretty tight. Need one person pushing up and one securing the torx bolts. I did it myself but would be better with a helper.
I believe there may be some threads on either IFSJA or FSJnetwork on the heated seat install. But if it were me, I would just probe around the fuse box with a multimeter and find a 12v switched source, then run a couple relays for the power for the heaters.
Also, you may want to think about the console route. I like the comfort of the original console, but there is no storage and no cup holders. Something to consider.
Interesting that both your wife and my gf insisted on getting the interior work done first, lol. I guess if we want to have them along on our crazy FSJ journey, we should try and make them happy!
GB_Willys_2014
Well-known member
Great thread.
Love these old Wagoneers!
Love these old Wagoneers!
Jeepin' Pete
Member
My seized seat bolts are actually the ones closest to the trans tunnel: both on the drivers side and the rear on the passengers. They are a dual threaded stud, coarse on the side that screws into the floor, and fine threaded on the top, where a nut holds the seat bracket on. There are 3 per seat (and one normal bolt) and on all but one the coarse thread simply unscrewed from the floor, and the nut wouldn't budge. I guess I'll just replace them with a coarse thread bolt, not sure why Jeep didn't do that to begin with?
Did you actually notice a difference with the sound deadening?
Do you have any detailed pictures of how the headliner board installs on the sides of the roof? I've looked for the channel that it is supposed to sit in, and I'm not sure where it is...
Also, the PO sealed the roof ribs to the roof! I'm guessing he did it when he took the stock roof rack off and sealed up those holes. The roof is flush with the top of the ribs and there is a black rubbery substance squeezed out from in between the two (kind of like dried caulk, but harder)
I've looked into the consoles a little, I like the idea a lot, even thought about trying to make the stock one flip open long ways, but just want the interior back together for now. And yeah, my wife loves the Wagoneer so far, so what I can do to keep her there will definitely be priority #1!
Thank you! Me too!
1979bettywhite
Member
I did notice a difference with the sound deadening. But I did it not only as a sound deadening, but also as a heat dampener as well. Which it has helped as well. I have not had the Chief out in the rain yet, but I assume the roof work will really help with that noise. I did not do anything with my rear wheel tubs, so I will need to address those as that's where I get a lot of road noise from currently.
Sad that the PO caulked those ribs to the roof. Probably did it to keep them from reverberating/making noise, which is a common FSJ problem. Originally from the factory there was a foam that went between them and and roof, but it deteriorated over the years. What was left of mine just flaked right off at the touch.
There is a J channel on both sides of the cabin that runs from almost the back window to above the front doors that holds the sides of the headliner panel in. If that is missing in yours you may have to go a different route on a headliner. You can see the J channel here in this picture. I think you could probably get some thinner aluminum flat stock and bend it to work. As long as the material you plan to use is somewhat light weight. You can do like I did as well and use some aluminum flat stock to hold up the panels where they meet.
Sad that the PO caulked those ribs to the roof. Probably did it to keep them from reverberating/making noise, which is a common FSJ problem. Originally from the factory there was a foam that went between them and and roof, but it deteriorated over the years. What was left of mine just flaked right off at the touch.
There is a J channel on both sides of the cabin that runs from almost the back window to above the front doors that holds the sides of the headliner panel in. If that is missing in yours you may have to go a different route on a headliner. You can see the J channel here in this picture. I think you could probably get some thinner aluminum flat stock and bend it to work. As long as the material you plan to use is somewhat light weight. You can do like I did as well and use some aluminum flat stock to hold up the panels where they meet.
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Jeepin' Pete
Member
Well, as usual everything takes way longer than you expect it to, but I have still made some progress.
The floorboards are all painted and all of the sound deadening is down! I did 100% coverage, even though I've heard anything above around 25% has diminishing returns (its purpose is just to stop the metal body panels from vibrating). I want the cabin to be quiet for road trips, but also thermally insulated as well since we'll be sleeping in the Wagoneer. This stuff takes forever, but is kind of fun - like a big rubberized jigsaw puzzle.
A couple tips:
- A wallpaper seam roller works for rolling down the deadening. It's not perfect, and pretty flimsy feeling, but never broke on me and was only $1.38 at Lowe's when I needed one.
- Be careful with edges - the aluminum layer on top can give some nasty slices.
- I found that instead of pushing on corners and edges with my bare fingers, a rag or cloth held between my fingers and the deadening helped the pressure applied slide smoothly over the contours.
I also did sound deadening on the roof, between the ribs, and covered it with Reflectix held up by 3M 90 spray adhesive to hopefully lessen the effect of the Texas sun.
(Another tip: don't be an idiot like me and think that toilet paper will work as a substitute for rags or shop towels - it doesn't! It just deteriorates everywhere...)
The seats are coming along too. The Katzkin kit is not complex, just takes some working with to make it look good. My main problem has been the plastic grommets that surround the headrest rods and give a clean finished look (the tan plastic in the pictures). The original upholstery had them clamped on with another plastic piece under the leather, and it's tough to get them to seat correctly on the new material.
Finally, the old cardboard side trunk panels were so warped and moldy that I decided to make new ones. I was going to use corrugated plastic (Coroplast at Home Depot) but it felt pretty flimsy so I just went with 1/4" MDF and I'll paint it to make it somewhat waterproof. All three panels fit nicely on a 2' x 4' sheet, and I drilled out the rivets holding on the metal clips, and used the old boards as patterns. (at least those expensive college textbooks still come in handy for something!)
The floorboards are all painted and all of the sound deadening is down! I did 100% coverage, even though I've heard anything above around 25% has diminishing returns (its purpose is just to stop the metal body panels from vibrating). I want the cabin to be quiet for road trips, but also thermally insulated as well since we'll be sleeping in the Wagoneer. This stuff takes forever, but is kind of fun - like a big rubberized jigsaw puzzle.
A couple tips:
- A wallpaper seam roller works for rolling down the deadening. It's not perfect, and pretty flimsy feeling, but never broke on me and was only $1.38 at Lowe's when I needed one.
- Be careful with edges - the aluminum layer on top can give some nasty slices.
- I found that instead of pushing on corners and edges with my bare fingers, a rag or cloth held between my fingers and the deadening helped the pressure applied slide smoothly over the contours.
I also did sound deadening on the roof, between the ribs, and covered it with Reflectix held up by 3M 90 spray adhesive to hopefully lessen the effect of the Texas sun.
(Another tip: don't be an idiot like me and think that toilet paper will work as a substitute for rags or shop towels - it doesn't! It just deteriorates everywhere...)
The seats are coming along too. The Katzkin kit is not complex, just takes some working with to make it look good. My main problem has been the plastic grommets that surround the headrest rods and give a clean finished look (the tan plastic in the pictures). The original upholstery had them clamped on with another plastic piece under the leather, and it's tough to get them to seat correctly on the new material.
Finally, the old cardboard side trunk panels were so warped and moldy that I decided to make new ones. I was going to use corrugated plastic (Coroplast at Home Depot) but it felt pretty flimsy so I just went with 1/4" MDF and I'll paint it to make it somewhat waterproof. All three panels fit nicely on a 2' x 4' sheet, and I drilled out the rivets holding on the metal clips, and used the old boards as patterns. (at least those expensive college textbooks still come in handy for something!)
1979bettywhite
Member
Nice, will be interested to see how that MDF does when you get the panels back installed. Are you going to wrap them in vinyl, or just use paint like you mentioned? Luckily mine are still in pretty good shape for their age. But even in good shape they are somewhat flimsy.
Jeepin' Pete
Member
I never thought about vinyl wrapping them - I'm halfway through painting, so I'll just stick with that for now, and if they warp badly I'll just re-do them with ABS or something waterproof. In theory there shouldn't be much moisture in the cargo area with the floor pan holes patched and new door seals (to come), but that's just "in theory"....
Jeepin' Pete
Member
Well, the Wagoneer project is still coming along. Slow progress is still progress!
I used some aluminum-backed wool blanket (I think it was called Therma-Shield?) that the PO was going to use for the headliner to put over the wheel wells and trans tunnel. It will help with heat and maybe noise a little, but the real reason was because the carpet was loose fitting in these areas. The extra layer makes the carpet fit tighter and adds more friction, compared to the smooth sound deadening, to keep it in place. 3M Super 90 spray adhesive was used to hold it in place - I am starting to really like this stuff! When pressed in place it seems pretty strong, but relatively easily pulled off if adjustment is needed.
The carpets are advertised as "trimming needed" and this is definitely true. The sides by the door were probably 1"-2" over on each side, which was a lot of work, but allowed for the sill plates to fit nicely. Also, is there supposed to be a sill plate (or some kind of aluminum edging) along the rear of the cargo area right by the tailgate? I see some holes, but have no piece...
I used the rest of my roll of Reflectix to fill in the gaps on the roof and even rolled some up to fit down in the side overhang. I hit all the seams with foil tape because overkill is underrated.
AND THE SEATS ARE IN!!! I used all grade 8 bolts and had to drill out two of the welded nuts and bolt through the floor. I still have one seat bolt left - the driver's rear, inside bolt (that's why the driver's seat angle is off). I drilled it out, but can't access the bottom because of the gas tank. I think my options are either try and tap the drilled-out welded-on nut, or drop the tank and put a nut on the bottom - any other ideas? How hard is it to drop the tank?
Not the best pictures, but I'll get better ones when it moves out of the garage into daylight. (Pay no attention to the white spots on the backside of the back seat - the new leather ripped the paint off our walls!)
I used some aluminum-backed wool blanket (I think it was called Therma-Shield?) that the PO was going to use for the headliner to put over the wheel wells and trans tunnel. It will help with heat and maybe noise a little, but the real reason was because the carpet was loose fitting in these areas. The extra layer makes the carpet fit tighter and adds more friction, compared to the smooth sound deadening, to keep it in place. 3M Super 90 spray adhesive was used to hold it in place - I am starting to really like this stuff! When pressed in place it seems pretty strong, but relatively easily pulled off if adjustment is needed.
The carpets are advertised as "trimming needed" and this is definitely true. The sides by the door were probably 1"-2" over on each side, which was a lot of work, but allowed for the sill plates to fit nicely. Also, is there supposed to be a sill plate (or some kind of aluminum edging) along the rear of the cargo area right by the tailgate? I see some holes, but have no piece...
I used the rest of my roll of Reflectix to fill in the gaps on the roof and even rolled some up to fit down in the side overhang. I hit all the seams with foil tape because overkill is underrated.
AND THE SEATS ARE IN!!! I used all grade 8 bolts and had to drill out two of the welded nuts and bolt through the floor. I still have one seat bolt left - the driver's rear, inside bolt (that's why the driver's seat angle is off). I drilled it out, but can't access the bottom because of the gas tank. I think my options are either try and tap the drilled-out welded-on nut, or drop the tank and put a nut on the bottom - any other ideas? How hard is it to drop the tank?
Not the best pictures, but I'll get better ones when it moves out of the garage into daylight. (Pay no attention to the white spots on the backside of the back seat - the new leather ripped the paint off our walls!)
Jeepin' Pete
Member
The first of the three trunk panels is finished. I'm actually impressed with how it came out, hopefully the bad rattle-can job I did on the MDF does its job of keeping out moisture...
And finally, I wrapped up the installation of the BJ's LED taillights. I had them on hold, because I had mis-wired them the first time, but once I traced the wires they are all set! I put a piece of plywood on the back of the circuit board to stiffen it up, as the housing is not straight so when tightened down the circuit board was bending. I washed the dust out of the inside of the lens and sealed the lens to the housing with gasket maker. Hopefully the taillights will be trouble free from now on!
And finally, I wrapped up the installation of the BJ's LED taillights. I had them on hold, because I had mis-wired them the first time, but once I traced the wires they are all set! I put a piece of plywood on the back of the circuit board to stiffen it up, as the housing is not straight so when tightened down the circuit board was bending. I washed the dust out of the inside of the lens and sealed the lens to the housing with gasket maker. Hopefully the taillights will be trouble free from now on!
1979bettywhite
Member
This is the aluminum piece mine has in the back to hold down the vinyl mat. Once again, I think you could fabricate this piece out of some thin aluminum flat stock.
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Jeepin' Pete
Member
That's perfect, thank you!