2002 Land Cruiser questions

[Deatramus]

Hello everyone...thanks in advance for any help. I have been "lurking" on this and a couple other sites for a couple of years in preparation of purchasing and modifying a vehicle for overland travel/adventure for myself and my wife as we are very close to retiring and want to travel this way extensively.

My first thought was to purchase a brand new FJ Cruiser and go to town on it and create a comfortable and dependable vehicle for travel on both the North and South American continents. The more I research, learn and contemplate... the more I am leaning towards considering a Land Cruiser even though it would be a used vehicle (as the new ones seem to have lost their "Overlanding" edge and have turned into luxury suvs).

LCs are more comfortable, more substantial and as I have learned they are considered to be (in some circles) the ultimate overland platform.

There is a 2002 that's just been traded at my local dealer and it is a one owner, has only 92000 miles on it and the guy kept the thing in a garage for most of its life...(I can almost hear the increase in heartbeats beating out there)

I am no mechanic but I have a basic knowledge of how stuff works (hence the first idea that a brand new vehicle might be better for us dependability-wise) so I am a bit leary of a used vehicle to begin with but this one is very nice and it is, after all, a Land Cruiser....

Any comments pro or con for this particular year for the base for an overlander? And am I out of my league (not being a gearhead) to consider going this route?

We are not "rock crawlers"...this vehicle will be for extensive travel with off-road expeditioning and exploration - we want to be able to see it all.

Any and all comments are appreciated....Thanks

 

[NM-Frontier]

First off welcome to expo! Sounds like a 100 would be right up your alley. Check out:http://www.sleeoffroad.com/newbie/newbieUZJ100.htm this should help answer your questions or at least get you going in the right direction on looking for a used 100.

 

[mhiscox]

I agree that a Hundred Series is a great truck for your use. Just a couple of things to consider when selecting the best one . . . there is an expensive service due at 90,000 miles that includes replacing the timing belt. If this has been done, it is a sign that the previous owner cared about the truck right up to the end. If not, figure about $1500 out of pocket straight away.

Second, if the budget will stretch to afford a 2003, strongly consider it. The transmission went from a four-speed to a five-speed that year, and having had one of each, I can tell you that the five-speed's gearing makes the truck seem more powerful and a better driver. Not that there's anything wrong with the older ones, but I found the improvement from the five-speed to be bigger than I would have expected.

As you look, don't forget that the Lexus LX470 is virtually identical, with the addition of a useful suspension height adjustment.

Do not be afraid of the used condition or the miles IF the truck has a good documented service history (which the Toyota computer should be able to find for you), as these are routinely quarter-million-mile engines when maintained by the book. Don't accept anything dubious, as there are lots of pristine trucks to be had.

And while it's admittedly just an opinion, I have had a wide variety of overlanding trucks, and I'm convinced that there is no way to travel overland in more comfort than in a Hundred. They are smooth, quiet and comfortable on pavement, with plenty of ability for everything you will encounter unless you specifically go looking for a challenge.

 

[Deatramus]

Hey, thanks for the welcome and that very comprehensive list of things to look for....

If you can stand the newbie questions....how is that 80 on the freeway? I have read so much about the solid front axle thing...would love that off road capacity and have driven trucks off and on all my life but we will be traveling thousands of miles on paved road as well.... any thoughts are appreciated.

 

[Deatramus]

That's great advice...thank you... comfort is a big factor as I am ''Gettin' on" . And the tranny advise is exactly the type of help I am looking for...we can certainly go to a 2003... that makes alot of sense.

 

[mhiscox]

How is that 80 on the freeway? I have read so much about the solid front axle thing...would love that off road capacity and have driven trucks off and on all my life but we will be traveling thousands of miles on paved road as well.... any thoughts are appreciated.

I've had an 80 as well, and it is a nice truck. But the 100s have MANY advantages over the 80s, compared to only one advantage I know of for an 80: better off-road performance in extreme conditions because of the solid axle and selectable lockers.

But the 100's traction system, one that pretty much does all the thinking for you, will be superior in almost all situations. In some safety-related situations, the computer will have you in 4-wheel drive before a driver can even recognize the need for it. All in all, on most overlanding trips, there would be no time that you'd be better off with the older truck.

The 100 will have better fuel economy, better handling, a more comfortable ride and many useful modern features. The 80 has a great reputation, but a lot of that was formed when 100s were too expensive to use for overlanding. Now that the costs have come down, I believe most everyone would find the newer truck the better choice.

On the thread Scott Brady started a few months ago soliciting opinions on the greatest overlanding vehicle ever sold new in the U.S., there's lots of mention of both the 80s and the 100s; you might want to skim through it if you haven't already. (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/95034)

 

[Deatramus]

Thanks Mike...This info is invaluable for me, there is a part of me that is resisting going into this reserch as I spent so much time over the past couple years (while we wait for our $ to come together and for actual retirement) on researching and outfitting the FJC (on paper) so its a bit challenging to begin again.

This kind of help makes it possible and totally enjoyable and I really appreciate the thoughts.....

As it became obvious to me that I needed to move to the Land Cruiser, I wondered if the support would be as good as it was over on the FJC site...a really good group of guys and gals there...and if these first few responses are any indication, it is a terrific group over hear as well....I'm goin into my due diligence mode and I'll have lots of questions....but feel more confident already.

Happy Trails!

 

[mhiscox]

Thanks Mike...This info is invaluable for me, there is a part of me that is resisting going into this reserch as I spent so much time over the past couple years (while we wait for our $ to come together and for actual retirement) on researching and outfitting the FJC (on paper) so its a bit challenging to begin again.

Happy to help, and I'm pretty sure if I wasn't responding, lots of other Hundred owners here would step in.

I've got a lot of respect for the FJ Cruiser, and the aftermarket goodies can make them really cool. But the 100s are luxury SUVs, and if you are going substantial distances, you really come to appreciate the quietness, comfort and solidity they offer over the FJC. Even just sitting in their (almost always) leather-lined interiors, you can tell that you're in for a pleasant ride.

I'll also throw in that, should you need the car for any daily driver duty, the 100 is ready for anything. Problems with the FJC, like the poor visibility and access to the back row of seats, along with a pretty uninspired interior, go away with the 100s. Face it, their aren't may overlanders that you'd be eager to use to go pick your up in-laws, but the 100s will get you compliments.

There's plentiful support for the 100s in the 100 forum on IH8MUD, and though it lacks some of the friendliness and collegiality, it'll have the information you need.

Again, the FJ Cruiser is a nice choice and there'd be nothing wrong with going that way. But dollar-for-dollar, I'll always be arguing that a used 100 deserves serious consideration.

 

[skrillah]

I too, am in the market for a 100 or LX. This is some of the better advice I've read, thanks.

 

[Colonal Angus]

I too, am in the market for a 100 or LX. This is some of the better advice I've read, thanks.

Ditto

Thanks!

 

[86tuning]

One more thing you might want to consider. If you're buying a used vehicle, and want it to perform as much like a new one as possible, consider a Lexus Certified pre-owned LX470 with the 5speed auto trans. IMO this would be as close as you can get to a well inspected vehicle. Yes, the vehicle will cost a bit more, but comes with a bit of warranty, the Lexus dealership will (hopefully) take care of you if any troubles arise. This is what I would do, if I was doing a nation-wide search and wanted to buy a vehicle from a city far away. Preferrably in southern California where they don't have rust issues like the other states. A couple members of my extended family have done this, and are quite pleased. Saved me from flying in to their town and inspecting a bunch of random vehicles....

If you're mechanically inclined and don't mind working on your own vehicles, and can do a proper pre-purchase inspection, then you could certainly save a few bucks.

 

[mhiscox]

One more thing you might want to consider. If you're buying a used vehicle, and want it to perform as much like a new one as possible, consider a Lexus Certified pre-owned LX470 with the 5speed auto trans.

This was good advice, had it fit in the budget, as the CPO Lexus warranty is basically a three-year/100K mile full extension of the factory warranty. The cost of the CPO car is a couple thousand more than the same car not certified, so it's about the same as getting a reasonable price on an extremely comprehensive and well supported extended warranty.

The CPO cars get a more extensive prepurchase inspection, and all have solid CarFax reports. And they meet a bunch of other stringent requirements, such as having more than half of their tire life left and both of their remote access keys. Given the durability of an LX, it is very much like getting a new car warranty.

The problem, however, is that the CPO Lexuses have to have fewer than 70,000 miles on them and have to have be no more than six model years past the current model year. The mileage requirement would eliminate the vast majority of LX70s, but the age requirement means, it appears, that they're aren't any to be had now. The last LX470 was in 2007, and I'm not clear how Lexus is viewing their model years, but Autotrader.com will not let you search for a CPO LX470 and none of the 27 2007s listed across the country is certified.

So while the advice was good, we've run out of time. However, it's still pretty easy to get an LX470 you can be comfortable with. For examples, at the request of the prospective owner, my Lexus dealer, for a couple hundred dollars, gave my '05 LX a comprehensive inspection equivalent to the 161-point inspection that the certified cars get. Combined with the full service history, this should give the best possible feeling about the care, if not the great warranty.

 

[Deatramus]

This was good advice, had it fit in the budget, as the CPO Lexus warranty is basically a three-year/100K mile full extension of the factory warranty. The cost of the CPO car is a couple thousand more than the same car not certified, so it's about the same as getting a reasonable price on an extremely comprehensive and well supported extended warranty.

The CPO cars get a more extensive prepurchase inspection, and all have solid CarFax reports. And they meet a bunch of other stringent requirements, such as having more than half of their tire life left and both of their remote access keys. Given the durability of an LX, it is very much like getting a new car warranty.

The problem, however, is that the CPO Lexuses have to have fewer than 70,000 miles on them and have to have be no more than six model years past the current model year. The mileage requirement would eliminate the vast majority of LX70s, but the age requirement means, it appears, that they're aren't any to be had now. The last LX470 was in 2007, and I'm not clear how Lexus is viewing their model years, but Autotrader.com will not let you search for a CPO LX470 and none of the 27 2007s listed across the country is certified.

So while the advice was good, we've run out of time. However, it's still pretty easy to get an LX470 you can be comfortable with. For examples, at the request of the prospective owner, my Lexus dealer, for a couple hundred dollars, gave my '05 LX a comprehensive inspection equivalent to the 161-point inspection that the certified cars get. Combined with the full service history, this should give the best possible feeling about the care, if not the great warranty.

The more I look into this the more I lean towards the LX.....and I get it about the CPO -and I like your Idea about paying a couple of hundred bucks for the comprehensive inspection....makes alot of sense...very inexpensive peace of mind.

One concern: The suspension adjustment....first, will this prevent me from upgrading the suspension if that becomes necessary with the added weight of bumpers, winches other gear etc...and second: isn't rule of thumb to keep an overland vehicle as simple as possible to avoid breakdowns?....in other words the more "add ons" you have ...the more that can 'Fail" out in the boonies somewhere.... and how reliable are these adjustable suspensions...do they any history of failing for folks with these vehicles?

Thanks for any thoughts...have my eye on a 2007 with 54000 miles... price is fair and I am thinking we are practically going to live in this thing over the next 5 - 10 years...why not get the highest quality I can...(everything's is negotiable!)

This truck will be for exploration in North and south America....I am thinking parts will be available on both continents. Worst case scenario...we hang out while waiting for parts if something fails. It kinda scares the c--p out of me to think of how many sensors and things are in these newer trucks that might decide to go ka put on a mountainside in Peru.

Thanks, again, for any thoughts!

 

[mhiscox]

The height adjustable suspension (AHC, autmatic height control) is, in the words of the mechanics who work for the dealership, "rock solid." In the words of the occasional IH8MUD posters who've had some part of it go bad, "it sucks."

I think you can trust it on a well-cared-for truck (the truck you mention sounds an absolute sweetheart) and also it can be inspected and preemptive maintenance done should anything look shaky. The trucks that seem to have problems are older and may not have had the best care. It'd be good to get the opinions of the mechanics at the dealership when you have the inspection done. (Nothing good happens to the service department if the sales department sells you a truck, so I've always gotten straight information from my service guys.)

That said, it can't hurt to go over to the 100 tech forum on Mud (http://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/) and read through the AHC-related posts; there is, in fact, a current thread about the fluid. Reading those posts will help you understand how the system works and what can go wrong. There's no question that you can have a catastrophic system failure that would have you limping back to civilization, but such failures are uncommon and must be nearly non-existent on newer, low-mile Hundys.

When you're at Mud, you can also read threads about what to do to make up for a lot of weight on the suspension. The rear is not a problem (they can, after all, tow 6500 pounds, so it can support some considerable tongue weight), but in the front, it's common to tweak the torsion bars to sort of "preload" the suspension for the added weight. Nothing that's not easy to do.

Your question about whether it's good to keep the overland truck as simple as possible is something you'll have to wrestle with. I had a Unimog camper that was so simple that any village mechanic with a screwdriver and an adjustable wrench could work on it, but it wasn't exactly the pinnacle of stress-free motoring. My personal feeling is that somewhere in the 90's, the cars got too complicated to be worked on without professional help, but in exchange for the complexity, you got much-improved reliability. There's plenty of stuff to strand you on a Jeep Wrangler or a Tacoma or an 80 series or any Land Rover of the last 20 years. So if you can't fix it anyway, you might want to have the truck least likely to break down, and I believe that if you check any source, you'll find the LX470 to be one of the most reliable trucks ever built. Additionally, the 100 Series Land Cruiser was sold all over the world, so pretty much wherever there were Toyotas, there were Hundys.

Probably the best thing to do is to spend some time on the Mud tech forum and see what you think of the complaints that they bring up, remembering both that some of their trucks are older and less well cared for, but also that you're most likely to see a post from someone when there's a problem; no one posts up to say, "My LX ran great again today." It's also a good place to learn about the ATRAC traction control system to see how you feel about that.

I, of course, don't have any vested interest in what you buy, and there's a lot of other credible possibilities out there. But I've been at this a while, and I don't know of anything else that I'd feel better recommending for your type of trip.

 

[Deatramus]

The height adjustable suspension (AHC, autmatic height control) is, in the words of the mechanics who work for the dealership, "rock solid." In the words of the occasional IH8MUD posters who've had some part of it go bad, "it sucks."

I think you can trust it on a well-cared-for truck (the truck you mention sounds an absolute sweetheart) and also it can be inspected and preemptive maintenance done should anything look shaky. The trucks that seem to have problems are older and may not have had the best care. It'd be good to get the opinions of the mechanics at the dealership when you have the inspection done. (Nothing good happens to the service department if the sales department sells you a truck, so I've always gotten straight information from my service guys.)

That said, it can't hurt to go over to the 100 tech forum on Mud (http://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/) and read through the AHC-related posts; there is, in fact, a current thread about the fluid. Reading those posts will help you understand how the system works and what can go wrong. There's no question that you can have a catastrophic system failure that would have you limping back to civilization, but such failures are uncommon and must be nearly non-existent on newer, low-mile Hundys.

When you're at Mud, you can also read threads about what to do to make up for a lot of weight on the suspension. The rear is not a problem (they can, after all, tow 6500 pounds, so it can support some considerable tongue weight), but in the front, it's common to tweak the torsion bars to sort of "preload" the suspension for the added weight. Nothing that's not easy to do.

Your question about whether it's good to keep the overland truck as simple as possible is something you'll have to wrestle with. I had a Unimog camper that was so simple that any village mechanic with a screwdriver and an adjustable wrench could work on it, but it wasn't exactly the pinnacle of stress-free motoring. My personal feeling is that somewhere in the 90's, the cars got too complicated to be worked on without professional help, but in exchange for the complexity, you got much-improved reliability. There's plenty of stuff to strand you on a Jeep Wrangler or a Tacoma or an 80 series or any Land Rover of the last 20 years. So if you can't fix it anyway, you might want to have the truck least likely to break down, and I believe that if you check any source, you'll find the LX470 to be one of the most reliable trucks ever built. Additionally, the 100 Series Land Cruiser was sold all over the world, so pretty much wherever there were Toyotas, there were Hundys.

Probably the best thing to do is to spend some time on the Mud tech forum and see what you think of the complaints that they bring up, remembering both that some of their trucks are older and less well cared for, but also that you're most likely to see a post from someone when there's a problem; no one posts up to say, "My LX ran great again today." It's also a good place to learn about the ATRAC traction control system to see how you feel about that.

I, of course, don't have any vested interest in what you buy, and there's a lot of other credible possibilities out there. But I've been at this a while, and I don't know of anything else that I'd feel better recommending for your type of trip.

Mike, again, I am in deep appreciation for all the help....Mrs. D (my seriously better half) and I are planning on spending a whole lot of time here touring North America for a while before we head south and I hope to run into you some where on the trail...we at least will cook you a fine dinner and crack a bottle of what ever you fancy....

I am headed over to MUD to check out all the above suggested reading....Muchas Gracias!