8/31/18: Went up to Flagstaff for Labor Day Weekend. Loaded up the wife + baby + gear in the Gen3 and took it out for some more testing: extended highway driving, steep uphill grades, and towing.
The Gen3 was a joy to drive on the highway and in my opinion is the superior generation in almost every way in this category. It was the most enjoyable, relaxing, and comfortable extended highway drive in a Montero I've ever done (I've done about 18,000 miles of highway driving in Gen 2 Monteros).
The Gen3 was firmly planted, easy to steer (car-like), responsive, and again - very stable. This despite the fact that mine has no sway bars and almost every suspension bit needs to be refreshed given they have 205k on them compared to my Gen2.5 which only has the rear sway bar removed and only needs UCA bushings replaced.
The power is really impressive for a Montero. Both of mine have 4.90 diff gears but the deeper tranny gears and 5th gear help and the extra 15HP feels like a lot more! It handled the steep uphill grades from 1,200 to 7,000 feet much easier than my other Monty.
We arrived and enjoyed the perfect weather which was 40 degrees cooler all weekend than just 2 hours south in Phoenix.
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The next day we spent driving all around Sedona and Camp Verde in the rain and I got a check engine light. I pulled the codes and got these:
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Seems to be very common in the Gen3 and could be caused by a lot of different things:
Vacuum leaks
Fuel Filter clogged
Bad O2 Sensor or dirty wires
Marutuk (2 owners ago) recently replaced the cats and downstream O2 sensors I think, so hopefully it is just the upstream O2 sensors because that should be pretty easy to do.
After checking the codes, I ignored the non-critical CEL and went wheeling in Flagstaff that afternoon. The Gen3 did great and it's so interesting how much different it is than the Gen 2 and as a result how you need to wheel it differently. For example, check out these measurements I took.
Both of my Monteros are running 33" tires.
Centerline Ground Clearance
Gen 2.5: 9"
Gen 3: 13"
Approach Angle
Gen 2.5: 39 degrees (pretty slim Jaos Brush Guard)
Gen3: 45 degrees (with Big FJ Cruiser ARB Bumper)
Departure Angle
Gen 2.5: 30.5 degrees
Gen 3: 28 degrees
Rocker (Bottom of Rock Sliders - same Trailgear Tacoma sliders on both rigs)
Gen 2.5: 16"
Gen 3: 14.75"
So as you can see, the lack of rear pumpkin helps out tremendously with ground clearance and the approach angle is almost Unimogish. The previous Gen wins on rocker height and departure angle but not by very much. And actually the hitch on my Gen 3 is actually 1" higher than on my Gen 2 (17" vs 16") but I calculated my departure angles based off of the bumper end caps because I was interested in seeing what they would be like with hitches removed and then forgot to calculate them with hitches on. But if I'm able to come down off of obstacles with the high point in the center I think I'll ********** my hitch less in the Gen 3 despite the slightly worse departure angle - more time and measurements are still required.
The final test of this weekend was towing. I hooked up my buddy's camper and we went for a spin down the road for a few miles. We couldn't go far because I didn't have a 4 pin to 7 pin trailer plug adapter and it was getting dark so couldn't be out on the highway too much with it risking a ticket. But I did go up a couple steep hills and felt that the Gen3 definitely tows better as would be expected. And this is a big deal for me since I'll be towing a camper on a lot of family adventures. If you've been reading my Black Betty build thread you'll know that towing a light camper (around 2,000lbs) over 3,000 miles around Colorado was not very fun as I was going 25-30mph with my foot on the floor over several big mountain passes.
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But it's not all gravy - I identified 5 points over these tests that are either worse than the previous generation or a cause for concern:
1. Driver's Elbow - There is no room on top of the door panel for your elbow when driving. The Gen 2 has a nice elbow resting spot but the panel is only like 1/2" thick up there on the Gen 3. It's not as bad as like a LR Defender
but I'll probably give this product a try.
2. Cabin Noise - I thought the Gen 3 would be more refined but it seems to be just as loud as my Gen 2.5. I used a decibel meter and on the highway at 75mph, the front cabin area measured 89-91dbs. This is on par or maybe slightly worse than my Gen 2.5 which runs 89-90dbs. The difference between my two vehicles is what is causing the noise. In the Gen 2.5 it is mostly the window and door seals which need to be replaced but there is virtually no tire noise (33x12.5 KO2s). The Gen3 on the other hand has a lot more tire noise (brand new KO2 33x11), I've heard this is because of the monocoque body amplifying the sound. It's not mud terrain bad but it's a big difference between my 2 vehicles running the same model and load range of tire. Also, remember that my Gen3 has had a good portion of the rear 1/3 sound deadened.
A couple other things that could be causing more noise in the Gen3 - The snorkel for this gen does not sit snug up against the body and sticks out further like a periscope. Also, the aftermarket window visors are definitely adding some wind noise, not much, but some.
3. OBD II Location - The port is vertical and right above the accelerator pedal. This means that your OBD II dongle falls out easily and even if it doesn't you can hit it with your right foot when driving. I like to run a tablet showing my engine temp, mpgs, etc. sometimes and this is not as easy to do in the Gen 3 because of the OBD II port location.
4. Manual Shift Transmission - The Manual Shift mode is a nice addition but I really miss the Overdrive Off button. Maybe I'm missing something but it looks likes the transmissions in the 2 gens operate totally differently when not in Drive. In the Gen 2, you can just hit Overdrive Off to cap your tranny at 3rd gear. You can be cruising along in 3rd gear, towing your camper, and then you get into town and you can come to a complete stop, and then take off when the light turns green and the tranny goes from 1 to 2 to 3 all by itself. It removes 4th Gear but everything else is the same.
But in the Gen 3, the gear you move into is the gear you are in and the tranny won't up shift at all. So same scenario - You're towing and decide to eliminate the top gear because the tranny is hunting, so you shift (-) one to 4th gear. You're cruising along in 4th and everything is great and then you get into town, come to a complete stop, and then when the light turns green you go to take off. The tranny won't let you takeoff in 4th so it had auto shifted down to 1st. BUT it won't upshift to 2nd, etc. So your RPMs go way up, until you notice you need to manually shift up to 2nd, then 3rd, then 4th, etc.
Not a huge deal but oh how I wished there was a way to simply remove the top gear. Do you guys get what I'm saying here? My transmission was just replaced so let me know if it is just my Monty.
5. Reliability - I know that Gen3s are generally regarded as the least reliable generation and reviewing this vehicle's history and my experiences so far this seems to be true. But it's not like trip ending stuff, that's the Jeep way, not the Japanese way. Instead, it seems like there are a lot of little electronic gremlins and doodads to break or annoy you. For example, the CEL codes on this trip. Ernest had been getting some of those, as had Marutuk, but they both thought they solved them with various fixes including vacuum leaks. But now, randomly several thousand miles later, they're back. But then I drive down to Phoenix and few days later, the lights go off and all is well. Which leads me to think it is not the O2 sensors cuz usually those either work or they don't and I'll have to explore the other possibilities.
So ultimately, that might be the deciding factor for me when all this testing is done. Can I trust the Gen3 when I'm on a 3,000 mile road trip, 100 miles from asphalt, with my family in the summer heat? Will it always have some little thing that breaks or needs attention after every trip? That seems to be a common complaint about the Gen3. As many of you know, the Gen2s are as reliable as vehicles come if you do your part. Now to be fair, I've gotten a few CELs over the course of Betty's 15,000 adventure miles for little things - EGR valve and that time my Crankshaft Sensor got wet in a mud hole - neither of which were critical things that needed immediate attention.
But at this point, with my very limited experience with Lawrence, if there was a problem and I had to drive across the country at the drop of a hat: I'd jump in Betty. Only time and miles in Lawrence will be able to change that gut feeling...stay tuned.
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