2005 Tacoma: Need the Ultimate Frame for Overland

Kodachrome

Observer
Hi,
Long time no post folks, that is what happens when you spend 100 days a year in your overland vehicle for work I guess. Well, I am back, because I have a new challenge ahead and need some good advice, so here goes…

513582
This is the “Silver Bullet”, a 2005 Tacoma, 407hp / 420tq trail eating monster that has an All Terrain Camper “Bobcat” mounted to it for 3/4 of the year.

The suspension is built too, Alcan leafs, ride rite airbags, 2” Icon rear reservoir in back, Camburg 2.5” coil overs with Tundra springs in front. As one can see by the specs, the powertrain is built to the nines, some bottom end improvements, cometic head gaskets and ARP head studs, a well upgraded TRD blower with full headers and exhaust, cam gears, full ECU bypass, 7th injector etc, etc.

Even when at a max take off weight of over 6,000 pounds, this thing just rips down the runway and takes flight, even sounds like a high performance stunt plane when blasting 80 miles an hour on I-70 in Utah. Now the main reason for all that go-go is not netting a 1/4 mile camper record but rather stout bottom end. And with a setup like this camper, it is flat out amazing. When off road the truck never gets tossed around or lurched. In crawl mode, it’s always smooth, compliant and safe power application with crap loads of torque in reserve.

So all that sounds fantastical and maybe even a bit self indulgent, yes? Well, as the title of the tread implies...Houston, we have a problem.

Long story short, I found out very recently I have missed the cutoff for having the frame inspected and possibly replaced under that class action Toyota settlement that everyone but me found out about. And the frame, especially after 194k miles is indeed toast, a hole in the left box by the cat area with one starting on the right and the C channel edges under the bed look like lasagna noodles. So no matter what I do, I am looking at replacing the truck or replacing the frame and given the massive mods all around, I am thinking it money well spent and just bite the bullet on a brand new frame. I know that is big bucks and even sounds crazy but what I share next will allude as to why I think that is smart money on what is actually a business expense.

Last week I took my truck sans camper to the dealer and had the frame looked at. While there I test drove both the 6-speed manual and 6 speed auto 2019 Tacoma. But in between, the sales guy took a spin in my truck, with the enthusiastic motor no less. Lets just say he was blown away with the power band in my truck and I was speechless of the lack of it in the 3.5L 2019. Even the manual tranny version felt completely lethargic until 4,000 rpms, a place my truck rarely sees with the camper on it. I have spent no less than 20 hours in the past 10 days finding out how this next gen powertrain could be improved to get it to handle the camper at least 3/4 as good as mine can in current form and it is just not happening, period. A URD S/C kit is still a ways out and even with that, you want to wait a couple more years for it to get in enough hands to work the bugs out.

So I feel my best way forward is with what I know like the back of my hand and works exceptionally well for a mid size truck and pop-up / slide in camper setup. As I work out the financial machinations of this, I am already thinking of how to take this new frame and beef it up big time before getting swapped.

I am looking for advice, innovative thinking and resources to make this the ultimate frame for the Gen-2 tacoma in overland capacity. This is where this new build out needs to start and it has got to be good, well worth the effort. Plates, gussets, boxing out the C channels, everything. But how much, what size and placed where to make carrying a camper setup full time a sound endeavor on all kinds of terrain is the question.

Of course since this is major surgery, I will be looking at other upgrades that make sense to do at the time but to be completely honest, some of it can still wait as I am trying to not exceed $20K in this go round.

That’s it for now, this project, I am just starting to “Frame” it so here we go…

Dan
 
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maximumunicorn

New member
A friend of mine missed out similarly on the 1st gen Tacoma frame recall. He tracked down a clean (but used) replacement frame and reinforced it a bit before having it galvanized and swapping it into his truck. I can reach out and see what the details were if you're interested, but this was an east coast job - I think the frame was galvanized somewhere in Mass. All this to say: what a good opportunity to get a galvanized frame! I bet the Land Rover guys have some good contacts.
 

TernOverland

Active member
Reinforcing the frame needs to be done thoughtfully, but having a bare frame to modify is a great opportunity! The areas of most concern are the front of the frame and the last 3 feet or so. With the weight and power you are running, I can guarantee you the rear spring shackle mounts are flexing considerably and twisting the frame as they do. I would advise against boxing unless you can acid dip and galvanize the whole frame. The areas inside the box will rot like mad. Boxing isn't necessary anyway. The strengthening needs to be targeted to the weak areas, while leaving the ladder twist of the frame unaffected. See my post here: https://www.expeditionportal.com/fo...y-camper-direct-to-tacoma-frame.201452/page-3 I'm developing the pieces to do exactly what you are talking about, and will have them in house in about a month. I'm developing front reinforcements as well. They are getting laser cut and formed from 3/16" steel. I can hook you up, and take the guess work out of it. Couple of questions:
Are you using the factory tire carrier? factory rear bumper? Do you have any interest in extending the frame? Do you have a need for an articulated aluminum/steel hybrid camper deck that would shave about 100lbs off the truck?

Once the work is done, you can coat the frame with HydroArmor 7763. This a military grade frame coating that I have been working to source, and I'll have it in house in a month or two. It's easy to work with, and provides unmatched protection. I will be using it on all my builds. It's not cheap. It will probably run $200 to $250 a gallon. The coverage is very good though. I would bet a gallon would do a complete truck and trailer. TDS attached. I can be reached at davidsoza@ternoverland.com 928 642 3459.
 

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Kodachrome

Observer
A friend of mine missed out similarly on the 1st gen Tacoma frame recall. He tracked down a clean (but used) replacement frame and reinforced it a bit before having it galvanized and swapping it into his truck. I can reach out and see what the details were if you're interested, but this was an east coast job - I think the frame was galvanized somewhere in Mass. All this to say: what a good opportunity to get a galvanized frame! I bet the Land Rover guys have some good contacts.

I have a line on a used one for $900 or can get a brand new one from Toyota for $3,800. In regards to the latter, new is always a reasonably known quantity and can make the time looking and waiting for a suitable used one to pop up a non-issue, takes about a month from the time the order is placed. I am leaning towards that since the bulk of the cost of this is labor anyway.
 
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Kodachrome

Observer
Reinforcing the frame needs to be done thoughtfully, but having a bare frame to modify is a great opportunity! The areas of most concern are the front of the frame and the last 3 feet or so. With the weight and power you are running, I can guarantee you the rear spring shackle mounts are flexing considerably and twisting the frame as they do. I would advise against boxing unless you can acid dip and galvanize the whole frame. The areas inside the box will rot like mad. Boxing isn't necessary anyway. The strengthening needs to be targeted to the weak areas, while leaving the ladder twist of the frame unaffected. See my post here: https://www.expeditionportal.com/fo...y-camper-direct-to-tacoma-frame.201452/page-3 I'm developing the pieces to do exactly what you are talking about, and will have them in house in about a month. I'm developing front reinforcements as well. They are getting laser cut and formed from 3/16" steel. I can hook you up, and take the guess work out of it. Couple of questions:
Are you using the factory tire carrier? factory rear bumper? Do you have any interest in extending the frame? Do you have a need for an articulated aluminum/steel hybrid camper deck that would shave about 100lbs off the truck?

Once the work is done, you can coat the frame with HydroArmor 7763. This a military grade frame coating that I have been working to source, and I'll have it in house in a month or two. It's easy to work with, and provides unmatched protection. I will be using it on all my builds. It's not cheap. It will probably run $200 to $250 a gallon. The coverage is very good though. I would bet a gallon would do a complete truck and trailer. TDS attached. I can be reached at davidsoza@ternoverland.com 928 642 3459.

Excellent info, I will be in touch!
 

TernOverland

Active member
Excellent info, I will be in touch!
Great talking to you! Regarding the used frame, be aware that there were motor mount issues with, I think, the 2005 2006 model years. I'm also not sure what the frame fixes were. Just enough info to be dangerous right? All I'm saying is check that out with someone who knows conclusively. In any case, I'm sure the fix can be effected on those frames if you understand it.
 

Kodachrome

Observer
Great talking to you! Regarding the used frame, be aware that there were motor mount issues with, I think, the 2005 2006 model years. I'm also not sure what the frame fixes were. Just enough info to be dangerous right? All I'm saying is check that out with someone who knows conclusively. In any case, I'm sure the fix can be effected on those frames if you understand it.

Ah, right! Yet another reason to just pony up for a new frame and the peace of mind that will bring.
I really look forward to building up a great frame!
 

bkg

Explorer
No dog in this fight.. will you keep the truck another 15 years? If so, will another factory frame make it?
 

Kodachrome

Observer
No dog in this fight.. will you keep the truck another 15 years? If so, will another factory frame make it?

Yes and yes.

In short, I am going to work with Dave who posted in this thread above to apply both structural improvements and robust corrosion preventives. Since it will be a brand new frame, it is even better than a new truck since it will be bare and can be perfected.

So I am compiling a list of other items to attend to in order to make it a sound investment. The big thing that drove me to this is the unsuitable powertrain in the 2016+ Tacoma. I even test drove the 6 speed manual one more time today to make sure and the bottom end is just not there and I doubt it ever will be without some forced induction.

I'm sure I could be patient and get something from URD down the road but I would rather not risk an unproven platform. I know the 4.0 like the back of my hand, that alone is worth a lot.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Whatever you decide to do consider if the frame modifications are done then they should be backed by an engineer willing to put his or her stamp on it.

Not saying Toyota is perfect, they are not. But they are building a frame that results from their accumulated knowledge and rigid frames tend to fracture, as you're starting to see with the 1990s Hiluxes and Cruisers now. IOW, adding reinforcement without some analysis is likely to move the failure point elsewhere in the frame.

You need a 3/4 truck truck, but that's just my $0.02.
 

Kodachrome

Observer
A little off topic, but do you have a build thread for your truck?

Not yet but I might be for a new reason...

Whatever you decide to do consider if the frame modifications are done then they should be backed by an engineer willing to put his or her stamp on it.

Not saying Toyota is perfect, they are not. But they are building a frame that results from their accumulated knowledge and rigid frames tend to fracture, as you're starting to see with the 1990s Hiluxes and Cruisers now. IOW, adding reinforcement without some analysis is likely to move the failure point elsewhere in the frame.

You need a 3/4 truck truck, but that's just my $0.02.

I wish I could find a suitably sized 3/4 ton that will take the camper without too many mods and not be too big on many of the trails I tend to go on.

So I have talked to my wife and a few off road / overland enthusiast friends and have come to a decision. I need to pull the 2005 out of camper service and buy a new 2019 in a couple months. If the 05 did not have things like the transmission, driveline components, wheel bearings and all that jazz coming up, spending 5 figures on a new frame would not be such a glaring expense. And even though the motor is sound and truly fantastic, it has indeed worked it's rear end off under boost for 140K of it's 194K miles, almost ten years of it under the weight of the camper.

If I take all the pressure off of re-working my 2005 for daily use and make it a project truck, it could truly end up being the ultimate overland vehicle for my needs. So I have to go with my gut check here and get a new truck for the camper.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
So I have to go with my gut check here and get a new truck for the camper.
Was just thinking about what you said and I wanted to mention that you don't need new to be a 2019.

When I felt I'd worn out my 1991 beyond where I could trust it daily I went looking for a replacement and considered 2015 Tacomas (at the time that being current model year). I just really wanted something not worn out and for various reasons decided 2008 and 2009 were the years that fit, so that is what I looked for and found eventually one with under 40k miles and the tail end of a factory warranty remaining.

So my point is a low mile 05-15 that has only seen pavement and garages might make sense, too. The 2016+ Tacoma chassis is substantially the same as the 05-15 and the noted deficiencies in engine performance for our use make the 4.0L preferred, I agree.
 

nickw

Adventurer
Whatever you decide to do consider if the frame modifications are done then they should be backed by an engineer willing to put his or her stamp on it.

Not saying Toyota is perfect, they are not. But they are building a frame that results from their accumulated knowledge and rigid frames tend to fracture, as you're starting to see with the 1990s Hiluxes and Cruisers now. IOW, adding reinforcement without some analysis is likely to move the failure point elsewhere in the frame.

You need a 3/4 truck truck, but that's just my $0.02.
+1 here......
 

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