2007+ Toyota Tundra long bed vs short bed for overlanding

[Clutch]

Well, with wife and kids, the only type of mattress they'll consider is a huge air mattress. It works. Fairly cheap, easy set up. Same with tents (modern day tents, Clutch, not that archaic equivalent of a make-shift teepee you've got pictured there )--sets up in about 5-7 minutes. Although I see the merits of a RTT or Flippac, my set up is working for now

I have a modern 2 man tent now, that I use for moto camping...sets up in 5 minutes...sleeping on the ground does a number on my back. So I haven't been in a while....use the Wilderness as a base camp and do 80-100 mile beer cooler laps now.

so I can't see spending all that money for new stuff. (gee, where have we heard this before )

Ha ha! You cheap SOB!

gaaad all that stuff is expensive...Alaskan is $30K...then you need to buy the proper truck to put it on...another $30K+ of you're lucky...$60K and you haven't even put fuel in it yet. Imagine I'll still be a cheap dirt bag SOB even when I retire....might still have my old beater Tacoma by then too.

Even those AT habitats are $10K when everything is said and done. Could buy 10++ used Wildernest for that...and it does the same thing.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Even those AT habitats are $10K when everything is said and done. Could buy 10++ used Wildernest for that...and it does the same thing.

Now finding 10 'Nests in the wild for sale, that's a whole different enchilada. To think at one time I had 3 and parts to mostly build another couple from shells. I could'a been someone, I could'a been a contender.

 

[Clutch]

I dunno, maybe they really do build in some margin. Toyota of old was selling us 1/2 ton mini trucks that shared the same frame with higher rated trucks overseas. That think that was just a fluke in the way trucks are rated here vs. Australia, UK, etc. Our class 1 light duty tops at 6,000 lbs while most places seem to recognize limits such as 4,500kg (9,900 lbs) and the like as the limit of light duty. That's probably why we get a Tacoma instead of the Hilux (or derivative), since it carries a GVWR that would mean ~1,500 lbs would go unused most of the time as a class 1 truck. The Hilux would be a class 2 truck (Workmate is 3,200 kg, or 7,050 lbs) here and would kind of embarrass the Tundra's GVWR, which is the same.

Always found it odd how they class trucks....a 1500, should be able to carry 1500 lbs...and on down the line.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Always found it odd how they class trucks....a 1500, should be able to carry 1500 lbs...and on down the line.

I think at one time that's actually what it meant. So a 1500 truck was 1/2 ton because it could carry 1,000 lbs of stuff along with 500 lbs of driver, fuel, tools and headache rack in place. So the classes developed along those lines. Now we're stuck with the same classifications despite all the regulations and market demand making the same truck weigh more for DVD players, air bags, crash bars and all that eating away payload.

 

[elevenrussians]

Wow the thread grew a bit!
I have forgotten my Toyota loyalty and started looking for used 3/4 ton trucks. And the more I research the more confusing it gets.

What I am looking for:
1) Quad cab with 4 real doors
2) Long bed
3) Automatic (so wifey can drive it but it's not the most important factor)
4) Ability to carry a loaded Alaskan (in process of purchasing), aftermarket bumpers, winch etc.
5) 4x4
6) keep it in 15k-25k budget


Other considerations:
1) Truck will be solely an overlanding/camping rig, have a work car and couple land cruisers for other needs. So probably 20 weekends a year +/- longer trips
2) I am not planning to tow anything huge

Questions:
1) Gas vs Diesel - after reading the forums the consensus seems to be that if you aren't planning to use the truck every day/tow a lot - gas is better in terms of cost/maintenance/reliability?
2) Dodge/Ford/Chevy?


Thanks for all your input!

 

[Clutch]

Now finding 10 'Nests in the wild for sale, that's a whole different enchilada. To think at one time I had 3 and parts to mostly build another couple from shells. I could'a been someone, I could'a been a contender.

Yeah it is. Took awhile a to find another. Though I have seen quite of few this past year, it was a matter of how far you're willing to travel. Even if you find just one, $10K pays for an awful lot of repairs, both for truck and camper. You can get a whole new tent sewn up for $1200 or so. Seeing another member on here that did that, got me excited about them again.

Got supper lucky, found my current one 2 hours up the road, and it came with every option. The rear tailgate screen, kitchen organizer, and the attic. Plus in much better shape than my old one. Put on a new bulb seal and stainless hinges...calling it good for now. Have $700 into the whole thing.

Previous owner put the artificial rain gutters for the rack in the wrong place, have to patch the holes, that is about it. Maybe paint it one day, but I doubt it. Rather spend the money on fuel and food.

 

[Clutch]

Wow the thread grew a bit!
I have forgotten my Toyota loyalty and started looking for used 3/4 ton trucks. And the more I research the more confusing it gets.

What I am looking for:
1) Quad cab with 4 real doors
2) Long bed
3) Automatic (so wifey can drive it but it's not the most important factor)
4) Ability to carry a loaded Alaskan (in process of purchasing), aftermarket bumpers, winch etc.
5) 4x4
6) keep it in 15k-25k budget


Other considerations:
1) Truck will be solely an overlanding/camping rig, have a work car and couple land cruisers for other needs. So probably 20 weekends a year +/- longer trips
2) I am not planning to tow anything huge

Questions:
1) Gas vs Diesel - after reading the forums the consensus seems to be that if you aren't planning to use the truck every day/tow a lot - gas is better in terms of cost/maintenance/reliability?
2) Dodge/Ford/Chevy?


Thanks for all your input!

At that price range...would go with gas. Diesel is fairly expensive to repair when the vehicle is out of warranty. Of course diesel vs. gas is an endless debate. Love the torque of the diesel...but don't want to pay for it.

Which brand? Tough call, each has their pluses and minuses. Below your budget, me personally...would probably look for a F350 OBS CCLB. and use the rest of the budget bullet proofing it.

http://boise.craigslist.org/ctd/5888438021.html

http://boise.craigslist.org/cto/5916426979.html

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/ford/2069329-97-f350-cclb-deavers-kings.html

 

[Clutch]

I think at one time that's actually what it meant. So a 1500 truck was 1/2 ton because it could carry 1,000 lbs of stuff along with 500 lbs of driver, fuel, tools and headache rack in place. So the classes developed along those lines. Now we're stuck with the same classifications despite all the regulations and market demand making the same truck weigh more for DVD players, air bags, crash bars and all that eating away payload.

Yeah, you're right it used to fairly accurate...now it seems all over the place.

 

[surlydiesel]

I'm Ford biased after Toyota. With such a small amount of use, I would go with a V10 F350. Find the newest with best service history you can get in your budget. You can get great low mile truck for under 15k. Just do some good searches. You can find basic XL trucks with crank windows and rubber floors, all the way up to King Ranch something or others. Do some forum research, you'll find issues with all 3 brands. Ford just sold a lot more F series trucks than the other two, so you have more selection and options on the used ones.

I previously had 3 diesels and while they are really nice to drive as per torque, they are expensive to repair, unless you do it all yourself. They are also very loud, unless you are talking about modern units, 2011+. The exhaust smell gets in your clothing and it's tough to get out without washing, this is only if you're working near the tail pipe of course, an example would be hooking a trailer. Gelling fuel in the winter, I can go on and on but I miss my diesels every day...

My next full sized will be a Gas powered F350. Simple and will get the job done. Please remember this is coming from a guy driving a 4cylinder Tacoma every day. My needs changed so I changed my truck. Even now, if I had to haul 6 cords of wood every year like I was, I would buy a utility trailer at this point and stick with the 4 cylinder gas millage ha ha ha

Cheers,
Jorge

 

[rruff]

I get so sick of hearing that. That's been floating around for quite a while. Yet, when it comes time to present hard facts,....crickets.
_
I'm not saying your truck will explode if you're a pound over GVWR. But I think people are overly optimistic on the cargo capacities of these rigs. Remember, every manufacturer would love to increase cargo capacity and tout a better payload than competitors. Toyota wouldn't undercut the Tundra's payload just for the sake of it.

You probably keep hearing it because so many people have overloaded the Tundra and it has performed fine. So far I haven't heard a dissenting comment from anyone who has actually tried it.

It does seem like Toyota would offer a heavy duty version if all it took was beefier springs and shocks. The axle ratings allow an added ~1000 lb on the front and 1700 lb on the rear, so that can't be the limiting factor. The discs are so large you need to run 18+" wheels, so I doubt that is it either.

 

[montypower]

I'm interested in your suspension thoughts since I've been researching that a lot lately. I want ~2" lift with larger tires (34" vs 32"), and preload adjustable front struts. I'm debating whether to go the cheaper route with Fat Bob's coilovers (~$500) and Bilstein 5100s rear (~$230) or get King, ADS, Fox, or Icon 2.5s front and rear for $2500+ total.
Are your Deavers the usual ones made for onloaded offroad, with airbags in addition, or are they custom to take your camper weight?

Spend the money on good quality suspension (King, Fox, Icon - Icon rocks). The Icon Resi 2.5" Adjustable are fantastic. I'll adjust the valving on off road trips with heavy load. Then adjust them down with less load. I don't like airbags. Get proper suspension for the actual weight you haul. It will ride and handle better. The Deaver springs are a custom spring pack using part of the factory pack. They can build to your exact specifications (weight, height, etc). The biggest problem with airbags is for off road use. I drive on long trips to remote areas on rough roads. If an airbag fails, it will be a long haul out - risking damaging the truck or slow travel. I'm not interested in carrying spare bags or wrenching in the dirt on the truck.

Currently have 32k miles on my the 2016 Tundra. We've spent over 60 nights in the Hawk camper since end of September. Arizona, Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada, Canada. Currently touring around Baja for another week or so...

Great truck. Gets a solid 14mpg fully loaded on trips (camper, 2 paddle boards, 2 mt bikes, 45 gallons water, 38 gallons fuel and plenty of gear). No rattles or noises after thousands of off road miles.

 

[p nut]

You probably keep hearing it because so many people have overloaded the Tundra and it has performed fine. So far I haven't heard a dissenting comment from anyone who has actually tried it.

It does seem like Toyota would offer a heavy duty version if all it took was beefier springs and shocks. The axle ratings allow an added ~1000 lb on the front and 1700 lb on the rear, so that can't be the limiting factor. The discs are so large you need to run 18+" wheels, so I doubt that is it either.

You'll find that people naturally form biases on things they've spent money on (a lot of money, in this case), so it's not surprising that most, if not all, of those with overloaded rigs voice anything negative, since they've bought too much into it. For Pete's sake, you have a guy claiming his vehicle loaded with 2,500lbs handles better than stock (??!!). Back in the "Fast and Furious" days, lots of people used to cut springs on their Honda's or lower their cars beyond what would be considered safe. Yet, I don't think I read one "dissenting comment" from any one of those guys (and those that did experience negative outcomes, you never heard from). It still didn't change the fact that they were operating beyond the factory specs.
_
Even F150's HD Payload package comes with not only different axles, suspension, etc., but a much beefier frame. I'm not sure which frame is stronger (Tundra vs F150), but I'd have a hard time believing that a Tundra's frame is made to handle much more weight above the given ratings. (BTW, FWIW [maybe not much], https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBKFKhcfmbQ)
_
I'm not crying foul here. But just get sick of the blind lemming syndrome some guys are infected with (no offense to you personally, gruff). Hopefully, everyone is going into it with their eyes wide open.

 

[rruff]

Spend the money on good quality suspension (King, Fox, Icon - Icon rocks). The Icon Resi 2.5" Adjustable are fantastic.

I'm balking at all the $$$, but you are probably right. I'll be spending a lot of time on washboard and rocky trails. Anything that makes that significantly more comfortable and controllable will be appreciated.

Any particular reason you chose Icon? I thought I heard they were harder to rebuild, but I might be mistaken. Have you rebuilt yours yet?

Is the adjustment for compression, rebound, or both?

 

[montypower]

I'm balking at all the $$$, but you are probably right. I'll be spending a lot of time on washboard and rocky trails. Anything that makes that significantly more comfortable and controllable will be appreciated.

Any particular reason you chose Icon? I thought I heard they were harder to rebuild, but I might be mistaken. Have you rebuilt yours yet?

Is the adjustment for compression, rebound, or both?

I have not rebuilt mine. I've owned Icon, King and OME. King was exceedingly difficult to adjust height with coil installed (I would uninstall to adjust), they rode great otherwise. Icon is well tuned for the truck. Both are high quality options. It adjusts the compression only.

 

[montypower]

You'll find that people naturally form biases on things they've spent money on (a lot of money, in this case), so it's not surprising that most, if not all, of those with overloaded rigs voice anything negative, since they've bought too much into it. For Pete's sake, you have a guy claiming his vehicle loaded with 2,500lbs handles better than stock (??!!).

I spent about 6 months talking to Tundra and Tacoma owners for real world experience. Essentially, all of them hauling campers are well over the GVW. There were no reliability or failure issues I discovered.

For my purposes, I wanted a full size with tight turning radius (Tundra beats every full size), fits in garage (under 20' length), double cab (fits 2 mt bikes in cab, 18 gallon water tank and gear), heavy duty suspension options (to handle off road travel), large fuel tank (travel range) and reliability. Toyota under rates these trucks. You will have to decide for yourself how much weight to haul. For me, the truck handles the weight very well with proper modifications (tires, springs, shocks, sway bar). After over 32k miles this year, no rattles, noises or issues whatsoever. Spent over 70 nights in the camper since September. It's been all over the west coast and baja.

For what its worth, the truck loaded handles better in the corners than a stock truck (less body roll). The stock suspension would bottom out over speed bumps. I can easily drive 5-10 mph loaded over the same speed bumps without bottoming out. Fully loaded I've caught air off road and it lands smooth and drama free (gotta love 2.5" Coilovers). I'd love to drive another full size that handles as well as the Tundra with similar load.