2013 F450 Lance Camper Utility Bed Build
- Thread starter racer3822
- Start date
racer3822
Observer
Yeah, called bushwacker and they don't have one that fits that year with the headlight in the cutout. I've yet to try ER. I talked to a couple members on it that have my truck body and they didn't have much luck; but maybe with some persistence I'll get somewhere. Did find a couple people making aftermarket fiberglass ones and another making a very ugly plastic one.
In any case I ordered the tires/wheels this week and they are 8 weeks out right now from Stazworks-- I guess he just got huge order. So I have a little bit of time.
Any opinions on how important identical track width is front and rear? I'd like to go as wide as possible in the rear but that puts the front out WAY far.
Thank you.
I have 2 aftermarket fuel tanks. 50 gal in the aft, 25 gal mid. The def fill is on the passenger side of the truck, not exactly where I wanted it but as infrequent as it I fill it, it works.
I haven't heard of the axle shaft bearing problem. I wonder if there is a fix.
racer3822
Observer
Winch in snow test
The tires and wheels are ordered, but in the meantime I decided to go down a little heavier snowed in road and got mildly stuck. Turns out the dually does NOT track well in fresh snow and it was horrible keeping it straight. CAN'T WAIT FOR MY NEW WHEELS!
I aborted about 70 yards in when I started going to the right of the road into even deeper snow and couldn't correct back on the road. Never had this problem in the F250 with SRW. Tried to reverse out and got even more stuck. Had a couple guys pass by that allowed me to anchor to their light truck and get me out, I was in the midst of chaining up when they arrived and figured it would be a good winching test.
Without digging myself out a little, I just pulled the 1500 towards me even with its 4 wheels on the blacktop. The superwinch 18k worked great, not even grunting. My fiance took a couple photos after I was already out.
Reminded me that even with all my tow ropes, etc, that I was still underprepared to be out solo somewhere. Going to order some MaxTrax soon, or try to reproduce them out of some metal that we have here. Not sure about it through, as I do like the originals but the $300 price tag seems high.
The other thing was I didn't have a real good anchor to winch to on the road. Luckily I didn't go far before aborting and was able to get someone on the road. Even with them on the road the rig is heavy enough I pulled them. So if I was REALLY stuck, that might not even work.
I started looking into an anchor and saw another thread that S2DM got extremely stuck and found him reference the Pull Pal. Again, don't really want to drop $700 when I think I can make one in an evening.
I've checked on home made ones and found the following links helpful:
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/24641-Testing-Pull-Pal-Alternative-Smittybilt-W-A-S-P-(Winch-Anchor-Support-Platform)
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/76-speciality-forums/82-exterior/17297-making-pull-pal-winch-anchor.html
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/5207-pull-pal-alternatives?highlight=pull%20pal
Apparently the angles are very important or it doesn't dig in.
Then somehow I stumbled upon this image:
View attachment 382985
Makes it pretty easy to copy, I almost feel bad! I think I'd rather it fold, but need to engineer that area much heavier for my rig. I do have a big fear of something breaking and coming flying out and hurting someone so I want to over engineer it.
Our current discussion is in this thread. http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/141578-F550-Surf-Camper-Build-Adrift-in-the-Green-Room?p=2231714#post2231714
The tires and wheels are ordered, but in the meantime I decided to go down a little heavier snowed in road and got mildly stuck. Turns out the dually does NOT track well in fresh snow and it was horrible keeping it straight. CAN'T WAIT FOR MY NEW WHEELS!
I aborted about 70 yards in when I started going to the right of the road into even deeper snow and couldn't correct back on the road. Never had this problem in the F250 with SRW. Tried to reverse out and got even more stuck. Had a couple guys pass by that allowed me to anchor to their light truck and get me out, I was in the midst of chaining up when they arrived and figured it would be a good winching test.
Without digging myself out a little, I just pulled the 1500 towards me even with its 4 wheels on the blacktop. The superwinch 18k worked great, not even grunting. My fiance took a couple photos after I was already out.
Reminded me that even with all my tow ropes, etc, that I was still underprepared to be out solo somewhere. Going to order some MaxTrax soon, or try to reproduce them out of some metal that we have here. Not sure about it through, as I do like the originals but the $300 price tag seems high.
The other thing was I didn't have a real good anchor to winch to on the road. Luckily I didn't go far before aborting and was able to get someone on the road. Even with them on the road the rig is heavy enough I pulled them. So if I was REALLY stuck, that might not even work.
I started looking into an anchor and saw another thread that S2DM got extremely stuck and found him reference the Pull Pal. Again, don't really want to drop $700 when I think I can make one in an evening.
I've checked on home made ones and found the following links helpful:
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/24641-Testing-Pull-Pal-Alternative-Smittybilt-W-A-S-P-(Winch-Anchor-Support-Platform)
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/76-speciality-forums/82-exterior/17297-making-pull-pal-winch-anchor.html
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/5207-pull-pal-alternatives?highlight=pull%20pal
Apparently the angles are very important or it doesn't dig in.
Then somehow I stumbled upon this image:
View attachment 382985
Makes it pretty easy to copy, I almost feel bad! I think I'd rather it fold, but need to engineer that area much heavier for my rig. I do have a big fear of something breaking and coming flying out and hurting someone so I want to over engineer it.
Our current discussion is in this thread. http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/141578-F550-Surf-Camper-Build-Adrift-in-the-Green-Room?p=2231714#post2231714
Last edited:
Super singling should help you in the snow significantly.
Were those three railer chains you were running? Or separate wraps in pairs?
Getting back to those fuel tanks... who made them? Did the aft axle tank retain the factory skidplate? How did the extra 10 gallons get squeezed in?
And the midship tank... how was that mounted? Does the midship tank extend forward under the cab, or does it stop at the cab back wall? Were factory straps used, or custom straps? Where was the DEF tank relocated to? You have side boxes on either side of your bed that intrudes on the space of the Ford side saddle mounting option...what was your work around?
So. Many. Questions. That's the sign of a good build. Got any pictures... not of the gorgeous red completed bed, but the frame and especially the fuel tank guts underneath that 20K custom aluminum body?
(Edited to remove one question which I was able to answer by scrolling up to again reveiw the earlier photos you posted and zooming in 400%.)
Were those three railer chains you were running? Or separate wraps in pairs?
Getting back to those fuel tanks... who made them? Did the aft axle tank retain the factory skidplate? How did the extra 10 gallons get squeezed in?
And the midship tank... how was that mounted? Does the midship tank extend forward under the cab, or does it stop at the cab back wall? Were factory straps used, or custom straps? Where was the DEF tank relocated to? You have side boxes on either side of your bed that intrudes on the space of the Ford side saddle mounting option...what was your work around?
So. Many. Questions. That's the sign of a good build. Got any pictures... not of the gorgeous red completed bed, but the frame and especially the fuel tank guts underneath that 20K custom aluminum body?
(Edited to remove one question which I was able to answer by scrolling up to again reveiw the earlier photos you posted and zooming in 400%.)
Last edited:
racer3822
Observer
Wasn't really running the right chains at all. I knew I was going to change my tires size so I only carried the standard chains for the old SRW truck I had that are too big for the smaller tires this truck came with. It only covered one tire of the dually and was hard to get on as its not meant for it. Originally only carried for extreme circumstance if we had R3 conditions or something, but figured it could help so I threw them on AFTER I got stuck.
Aerotanks made them for me. For the aft he actually got more than 10 gallons, because the stock wasn't quite what Ford claimed. I don't remember for sure, but I think it only took around 34 gallons or something even when run really empty. He brought the tank to the extreme dimensions of the frame on all sides and made it come up a little bit through the frame rails. No factory skid plate. There was a double wall skid plate welded to the bottom of the tank, flush. I was skeptical because I thought the skid plate should have some space between the tank, but he claims they have taken some pretty serious hits and not punctured. I carry a stick of the fuel tank JB weld type of stuff just in case.
The DEF tank was a huge problem when adding midship tank. Ford sells a midship tank but they move the DEF tank to the outside of the rails when they do, mine is inside the rails as it didn't come with midtank and its actually where it needs to be for my boxes like you said too. I had a hard time deciding whether to do a delete kit and remove it to get even more fuel capacity, but my warranty for sure would be voided at that point.
Aerotanks claimed they could get 25 gallons by mounting the midtank in front of the DEF tank, extending the midtank under the cab as far as possible to the transfer case. They used their own mounting system. They brought it down to about the level of all the other components.
Also added a light duty skid plate to the DEF tank as it looked vulnerable.
I didn't get enough photos as it was being built out of state, the only place I could find that did aluminum custom beds to fit campers. We communicated about design through 3D cad drawings that I still have. We went with 4" rails to get the camper closer to the cab and reduce height.
As far as fuel tank mounting, the mounts have nothing interfacing with the custom bed. When I took the truck to the builder they were already mounted and installed. Snapped some photos just now but can get more later when it isn't raining.
Here's a couple shots of the 3d cad underside:
I'm happy to answer any questions that'll help. I got so much of my knowledge off of this forum that its nice to give back a little.
Last edited:
Awesome photos... thank you so much for laying down there and snapping those. Really helps me visualize how you surmounted some thorny problems.
TransferFlow in Chico CA used to be the go to company for fuel tanks in Ford Chassis cabs, at one time offering a 30 gallon midship, a 34 gallon midship, and a 50 gallon midship... all available for 176" wheelbase crew cab narrow frames with a 60" cab to axle distance. Transfer Flow also offered a larger volume replacement aft axle tank, because so many of the stock steel tanks were delaminating due to the interior lining that Ford coated them with that was chemically incompatible with ULSD, and Ford didn't figure it out until some time after the fuel change over... however much time it took for the coating to delaminate and clog up the fuel filters, bringing in truck owners exasperated with a loss of power.
But TransferFlow suddenly exited entirely from the Ford chassis cab replacement and chassis mounted midship fuel tank business. I suspect one reason is that darn DEF tank that you had to work around, and the reticence of commercial fleets to change anything that would effect the original factory warranty on such an expensive engine and fuel system... leading to a loss of demand and a collapse of the market for chassis mounted fuel tanks. There is no easy solution, because mounting the tank outboard on passenger rail forces a flat bed only type of bed. No service bodies. Moving the tank isn't just moving the tank, it is moving the specialized heated injection lines for the DEF that keeps it from freezing. Ford only approves two locations, neither of which are optimal for a mid ship fuel tank combined with a service body. I couldn't imagine how you got it done, so I'm thankful for your photos that show how Aerotanks utilized the much shallower space directly under the cab, pretty much at the break over angle between axles. Yet, it appears from the photos that ground clearance is no different than say, the stock running boards.
I had forgotten all about Aerotanks. I don't have DEF in my 7.3L 550, so I had planned on buying a Transfer Flow midship, but they not only no longer have any tanks in stock, they flat refuse to make any more. Not unless you are going to order and prepay for a large volume. Even though their website says custom orders for 5 or more tanks accepted, Randy Gaines personally said that he wasn't interested in building them any more. This is sad, because for 15 years or so, Transfer flow was the preeminent fuel tank company that built tanks for the Ford narrow frame chassis cabs, including the Ford F650 SuperCrewzer and the Fontaine Classic Traveler (Ford approved ship thru modifications), as well as Gary and Monica Westcott, in their Turtle V expedition camper. Tow truck companies who were dissatisfied with Ford's measly 19 gallon and later 28 gallon midship tanks turned to Transfer Flow for their larger 34 and 50 gallon midship tank, because tow trucks delete or never order chassis cabs with the stock aft axle tank, due to wheel lift equipment interference.
Guess I'm just rambling, but your solution was quite interesting. With your midship tank directly hard bolted through holes drilled through the flanges of the truck frame, it will be interesting to see how it handles the frame racking next time you go off road, with your new super single wheels and tires emboldening you to "Go Further", as Ford's marketing mantra encourages. I noticed the reinforcement side plates welded on to the tank sides supporting the mounting brackets... but as a reader of Expedition Portal, seeing all the builds with the sophisticated flexible camper mounts to accommodate frame twist and prevent crack propagation... I'm sure you put a lot of questions to Aerotanks about choosing this type of installation over traditional straps... and I'd like to learn more about how they warranty a mounting system like that, and how the tank is supported on the driveshaft side.
TransferFlow in Chico CA used to be the go to company for fuel tanks in Ford Chassis cabs, at one time offering a 30 gallon midship, a 34 gallon midship, and a 50 gallon midship... all available for 176" wheelbase crew cab narrow frames with a 60" cab to axle distance. Transfer Flow also offered a larger volume replacement aft axle tank, because so many of the stock steel tanks were delaminating due to the interior lining that Ford coated them with that was chemically incompatible with ULSD, and Ford didn't figure it out until some time after the fuel change over... however much time it took for the coating to delaminate and clog up the fuel filters, bringing in truck owners exasperated with a loss of power.
But TransferFlow suddenly exited entirely from the Ford chassis cab replacement and chassis mounted midship fuel tank business. I suspect one reason is that darn DEF tank that you had to work around, and the reticence of commercial fleets to change anything that would effect the original factory warranty on such an expensive engine and fuel system... leading to a loss of demand and a collapse of the market for chassis mounted fuel tanks. There is no easy solution, because mounting the tank outboard on passenger rail forces a flat bed only type of bed. No service bodies. Moving the tank isn't just moving the tank, it is moving the specialized heated injection lines for the DEF that keeps it from freezing. Ford only approves two locations, neither of which are optimal for a mid ship fuel tank combined with a service body. I couldn't imagine how you got it done, so I'm thankful for your photos that show how Aerotanks utilized the much shallower space directly under the cab, pretty much at the break over angle between axles. Yet, it appears from the photos that ground clearance is no different than say, the stock running boards.
I had forgotten all about Aerotanks. I don't have DEF in my 7.3L 550, so I had planned on buying a Transfer Flow midship, but they not only no longer have any tanks in stock, they flat refuse to make any more. Not unless you are going to order and prepay for a large volume. Even though their website says custom orders for 5 or more tanks accepted, Randy Gaines personally said that he wasn't interested in building them any more. This is sad, because for 15 years or so, Transfer flow was the preeminent fuel tank company that built tanks for the Ford narrow frame chassis cabs, including the Ford F650 SuperCrewzer and the Fontaine Classic Traveler (Ford approved ship thru modifications), as well as Gary and Monica Westcott, in their Turtle V expedition camper. Tow truck companies who were dissatisfied with Ford's measly 19 gallon and later 28 gallon midship tanks turned to Transfer Flow for their larger 34 and 50 gallon midship tank, because tow trucks delete or never order chassis cabs with the stock aft axle tank, due to wheel lift equipment interference.
Guess I'm just rambling, but your solution was quite interesting. With your midship tank directly hard bolted through holes drilled through the flanges of the truck frame, it will be interesting to see how it handles the frame racking next time you go off road, with your new super single wheels and tires emboldening you to "Go Further", as Ford's marketing mantra encourages. I noticed the reinforcement side plates welded on to the tank sides supporting the mounting brackets... but as a reader of Expedition Portal, seeing all the builds with the sophisticated flexible camper mounts to accommodate frame twist and prevent crack propagation... I'm sure you put a lot of questions to Aerotanks about choosing this type of installation over traditional straps... and I'd like to learn more about how they warranty a mounting system like that, and how the tank is supported on the driveshaft side.
racer3822
Observer
Yeah, I've been a customer for Aerotanks for awhile now. 11 years ago I got a replacement tank for my F250 that was 52 gallons or so. It was the same construction as what they are doing with the midship and bolts nearly to the same places.
I took that F250 with either 34" or 35" tires ALOT of places. I would take the camper off and go hunting with it and really get into some challenging areas. I never had a problem with the tank or mounting. I even once high centered the truck on a berm I was trying to get over, like front tires completely in the air resting on the fuel tank and it held up with all the weight of the truck on the tank. Had some small indentations on it, but nothing serious. This one didn't have the integrated double wall skid plate either.
I took that F250 with either 34" or 35" tires ALOT of places. I would take the camper off and go hunting with it and really get into some challenging areas. I never had a problem with the tank or mounting. I even once high centered the truck on a berm I was trying to get over, like front tires completely in the air resting on the fuel tank and it held up with all the weight of the truck on the tank. Had some small indentations on it, but nothing serious. This one didn't have the integrated double wall skid plate either.
HOLY &#&#&*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I came here to ask how much this cost. Looks awesome. Then I saw 20k. DAMN!!! Too rich for my blood. That's US dollars too... so like $26,000 Canadian.
Not judging at all, money is meant to be spent, just shocked. Damn!
Chump change! Didn't you see the Porsche Cayman in the background of one of racer's shots? 
Racer... how is the front of your utility bed mounted to the frame?
What does Aerotanks do to protect the steel INSIDE their tanks from corroding, getting effected by bacterial growth in diesel, from water drop out in diesel, from biodiesel formulations, etc. We know that Ford paints the inside of their steel tank... What does Aerotanks do?
Racer... how is the front of your utility bed mounted to the frame?
What does Aerotanks do to protect the steel INSIDE their tanks from corroding, getting effected by bacterial growth in diesel, from water drop out in diesel, from biodiesel formulations, etc. We know that Ford paints the inside of their steel tank... What does Aerotanks do?
racer3822
Observer
Yeah, sometimes I think of the price and have a little buyers remorse as I usually like to build it myself or somehow find a great deal, but what's done is done and it looks great in my eyes. I only wish it WERE chump change and the porche was mine! 🤣
I did shop around, got quotes from 3 other places that did steel beds. After adding all install labor, toolbox, hitch setup, gooseneck, paint match, etc they were all more than 18k. Some wouldn't customize. Maybe the west coast has higher labor costs or I just didn't find the best deal.
As far as the tank goes, I'm not sure of the coating. They do a ton, I'd be surprised if they had that problem, but I've been surprised before.... 😅
I did shop around, got quotes from 3 other places that did steel beds. After adding all install labor, toolbox, hitch setup, gooseneck, paint match, etc they were all more than 18k. Some wouldn't customize. Maybe the west coast has higher labor costs or I just didn't find the best deal.
As far as the tank goes, I'm not sure of the coating. They do a ton, I'd be surprised if they had that problem, but I've been surprised before.... 😅
racer3822
Observer
Inverter and battery mounts
Took the evenings of the last few days to redo the battery mount and install another larger inverter. I originally bought the Xantrex 2000 pure sine inverter but it wouldn't run the microwave which is what I bought it for along with the keurig. It would start the microwave and then the alarms would go off and it would shut down 10 seconds later. It wasn't the cables as they were 2/0 and went right to the battery with a short 2 foot run. Battery is a large deep cycle from lifeline.
The Xantrex was sold on ebay and I ordered a no name brand 3000 watt pure sine inverter and that does the job running the microwave and whatever else. It has decent reviews and I'm giving it a try for the little use it will have.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0131PZ9J2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
As for the mounting the builder lowered the shelf and put a coated wood spacer/cradle in between the shelf and battery to keep it from bouncing and shifting. I didn't really like that as it didn't give me readily access to the terminals and took up a ton of room so I welded a couple more pieces of unistrut on the side (I hate welding aluminum!) and bent up some stainless to move it to the corner of the cabinet and in my opinion secure it more solidly.
Now I just have to bend up another shelf to put above the battery for some more storage and to protect the terminals.
Took the evenings of the last few days to redo the battery mount and install another larger inverter. I originally bought the Xantrex 2000 pure sine inverter but it wouldn't run the microwave which is what I bought it for along with the keurig. It would start the microwave and then the alarms would go off and it would shut down 10 seconds later. It wasn't the cables as they were 2/0 and went right to the battery with a short 2 foot run. Battery is a large deep cycle from lifeline.
The Xantrex was sold on ebay and I ordered a no name brand 3000 watt pure sine inverter and that does the job running the microwave and whatever else. It has decent reviews and I'm giving it a try for the little use it will have.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0131PZ9J2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
As for the mounting the builder lowered the shelf and put a coated wood spacer/cradle in between the shelf and battery to keep it from bouncing and shifting. I didn't really like that as it didn't give me readily access to the terminals and took up a ton of room so I welded a couple more pieces of unistrut on the side (I hate welding aluminum!) and bent up some stainless to move it to the corner of the cabinet and in my opinion secure it more solidly.
Now I just have to bend up another shelf to put above the battery for some more storage and to protect the terminals.
Sisyphus
Adventurer
Nice build. Have you committed to the G275/stazworks setup? If so, a lift is not required, but will require trimmed fenders, bumper, and your front axle will have to be moved slightly forward. But i think you've already figured this out through your extensive research.
Secondly, buy the biggest and best air compressor money can buy when you move up to those 41s, you won't regret it.
Happy trails!
Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
Secondly, buy the biggest and best air compressor money can buy when you move up to those 41s, you won't regret it.
Happy trails!
Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
racer3822
Observer
Yeah, already committed to stazworks, just waiting for them to be done. I need to look up how to move the axle forward, and I am going to put some washers to space the bumper forward for now until I make a new one.
Any recommendations on a 12v air compressor?
Also called Earthroamer to try and source the cutout fenders. They will absolutely, under no circumstances, sell me them. It narrows my choices down quite a bit.
'round n' back again
Explorer
duals are squirrly. sic
im the leading expert on what cannot be accomplished with duals. for i have tried all combinations of earth surface beneath my duallies
top of the list of unaccomplishables is:
is going off road
most of my adult life i have been the pilot of a dual rear wheeled truck. much of that time off road and overloaded.
clumsy beasts, they will get u stuck on any surface, and of course the overloaded truck is impossible to unstick. jerk it with a chain ,push it with a track hoe or dozer they skid along merrily plowing through the mud jamming up between the duals and squeezing into the brakes. so now you have , in good weather 100 pounds of tire and wheel on each end of the axle jammed with goo, weighing 200 pounds, and your posi unit is burning up trying to spin both of these globs at once. i learned to go with open diff as they will last forever. and of course are useless when stuck.
mud, is the worst, unless u count sand, or snow. Stay home if its icy, and on bloomin' wet pavement they aint so smiley either. and they tend to bust posi units out quickly, and brakes get hot.
but they tow nicely ;if you have drum brakes they slack off
i promise u that you will find roads your srw took ,are impassable with duals.
tip: buy, or after a severe snow storm, gather up big truck tire chains thrown off passing trucks; 3 railers they are called , jack up your rig and put them on then measure and cut them down to size to fit your rig. 3 railers have 3 longitudinal chains wth the cross ribs between for traction. learn to put these on laying on your back in a puddle of sweat and melted snow, do it b4 u need them, as putting them on after u need them is impossible.
having shot my mouth off i can say that the only trucks i own are duallies-fords mostly.
so they are good for something, like cross winds and stock trailers, thats about all they are good for
im the leading expert on what cannot be accomplished with duals. for i have tried all combinations of earth surface beneath my duallies
top of the list of unaccomplishables is:
is going off road
most of my adult life i have been the pilot of a dual rear wheeled truck. much of that time off road and overloaded.
clumsy beasts, they will get u stuck on any surface, and of course the overloaded truck is impossible to unstick. jerk it with a chain ,push it with a track hoe or dozer they skid along merrily plowing through the mud jamming up between the duals and squeezing into the brakes. so now you have , in good weather 100 pounds of tire and wheel on each end of the axle jammed with goo, weighing 200 pounds, and your posi unit is burning up trying to spin both of these globs at once. i learned to go with open diff as they will last forever. and of course are useless when stuck.
mud, is the worst, unless u count sand, or snow. Stay home if its icy, and on bloomin' wet pavement they aint so smiley either. and they tend to bust posi units out quickly, and brakes get hot.
but they tow nicely ;if you have drum brakes they slack off
i promise u that you will find roads your srw took ,are impassable with duals.
tip: buy, or after a severe snow storm, gather up big truck tire chains thrown off passing trucks; 3 railers they are called , jack up your rig and put them on then measure and cut them down to size to fit your rig. 3 railers have 3 longitudinal chains wth the cross ribs between for traction. learn to put these on laying on your back in a puddle of sweat and melted snow, do it b4 u need them, as putting them on after u need them is impossible.
having shot my mouth off i can say that the only trucks i own are duallies-fords mostly.
so they are good for something, like cross winds and stock trailers, thats about all they are good for
Last edited:
