2019 Honda CRF 450L

[McCarthy]

The 390 is a massive disappointment in so many ways, it's more in line with the CB500X than the 450L.

390 is kind of a fail in my books. CB500X is honestly a better bike, other than the KTM suspension is a bit better, and it's lighter. The big single is just a vibration machine and a underpowered for a KTM. Throw a rally raid kit on a CB500X you have an awesome mini adventure bike, with a bit more to be desired horsepower wise, but that's just normal with Honda. Incredible reliability too.

KTM had such an opportunity with the 390, just throw the engine out of the 500 EXC-F at 50hp or whatever it makes, and you'd have people beating down the door to buy one... Me included. No it wouldn't canibilze the 790 sales, different bikes.

 

[McCarthy]

That's something I considered. I think a 250L would probably work ok for me, and there's no denying the 450L is a better bike when it comes to performance, but I want much longer service intervals. A 600 mile OCI just won't work for me.

I agree with calicamper about a hole in Honda's line up. Their 450s are great bikes, but where is Honda's 450 dual sport that can go thousands of miles between oil changes? All I see in their offroad 450s are competition oriented bikes. If the omission wasn't apparent before, the KTM 390 Adventure seems poised to exploit that gap. Honda can't be happy to see KTM offering a bike with a 4650 mile oil change interval in that market segment.

If you buy a 250L you will regret it, coming from owning one. Bought one brand new in April of 2018, sold it in July.

 

[Tex68w]

If you buy a 250L you will regret it, coming from owning one. Bought one brand new in April of 2018, sold it in July.

That might be true for some or even most, but there are those out there that truly enjoy that bike. I have a few buddies who don't ride often or aggressively and for them the 250L gets the job done. Sure, they've voiced their desire for more power and better suspension and ground clearance but at the end of the day they've followed us on the WR's, 450L's, and KTM 500's nearly everywhere we go. For under $4K it's all the bike some people need or can justify. I think that the WR250R is a much better bike in that category but I am a Honda guy at heart so I get it.

 

[shade]

Sure, but it'll never happen. The old school air cooled and oil cooled bikes are dying off and Honda surely isn't going to bring one back when they are the largest manufacturer of motorcycles in the world and under the tightest emissions restrictions. If people want 5,000+ mile oil change intervals on a large bore thumper then you're better off doing a restomod build on a DRZ or older XR, but they will never have the power, suspension, or handling of the newer enduro big bores.

Even with its faults, KTM didn't have to resort to an air/oil cooled bike to hit the specs of the 390 Adventure. Maybe Honda's response to that bike will be a CB500X Rally, trimmed down to 400 lbs, with better wheels & suspension, keeping the 8000/16000 oil/valve service interval. Brand it the Africa Single and call it good. I still want something lighter and cheaper right now, but a bike like that might sell very well.

 

[Tex68w]

The 390 Adventure makes great power but it's extremely heavy at 348 lbs dry (at least another 24 lbs in fuel alone), has crap ground clearance (sub 8") and it has mag wheels. It's simply not a dual sport in the true sense of the word like a more dirt bike oriented dual sport like the 250L, WR250R, DRZ, etc. This is why I compare the 390 ADV to the likes of the CB500X which it is very comparable to in the specs department, the BMW 310 GS could be lumped in here as well. I consider these bikes to be more like mini KLR's or F650/750 GS's.

There might be a mini AT in the works but we will likely see the AT 800 long before we see a AT400/500.

 

[McCarthy]

That might be true for some or even most, but there are those out there that truly enjoy that bike. I have a few buddies who don't ride often or aggressively and for them the 250L gets the job done. Sure, they've voiced their desire for more power and better suspension and ground clearance but at the end of the day they've followed us on the WR's, 450L's, and KTM 500's nearly everywhere we go. For under $4K it's all the bike some people need or can justify. I think that the WR250R is a much better bike in that category but I am a Honda guy at heart so I get it.

Wr250 is okay... the KTM 250 EXCF is 10x the bike... 237lbs wet, and more power & suspension than a WR. I just hated my 250L so i'm a bit biased. Tried riding tough single track and it was so bad it wasn't even funny, and so bad on the street... Had no power (i'm talking wide open tucked to do 60mph with a light headwind). I just don't get the bike, I really don't. Want a dirt bike with a plate? KTM EXCF. Want a dual sport? WR250, KTM EXCF, CRF450L, etc. Want a stupidly heavy, underpowered, underdamped, undersprung, hot mess of a bike? 250L.

 

[calicamper]

Wr250 is okay... the KTM 250 EXCF is 10x the bike... 237lbs wet, and more power & suspension than a WR. I just hated my 250L so i'm a bit biased. Tried riding tough single track and it was so bad it wasn't even funny, and so bad on the street... Had no power (i'm talking wide open tucked to do 60mph with a light headwind). I just don't get the bike, I really don't. Want a dirt bike with a plate? KTM EXCF. Want a dual sport? WR250, KTM EXCF, CRF450L, etc. Want a stupidly heavy, underpowered, underdamped, undersprung, hot mess of a bike? 250L.

Yeah the 250L is ancient actually in true Honda form they don’t change much for over a decade in many models.
This segment seems to be the only growing motorcycle segment these days and the bikes starting to hit some of the traits many want are popular thats for sure.

 

[shade]

Wr250 is okay... the KTM 250 EXCF is 10x the bike... 237lbs wet, and more power & suspension than a WR. I just hated my 250L so i'm a bit biased. Tried riding tough single track and it was so bad it wasn't even funny, and so bad on the street... Had no power (i'm talking wide open tucked to do 60mph with a light headwind). I just don't get the bike, I really don't. Want a dirt bike with a plate? KTM EXCF. Want a dual sport? WR250, KTM EXCF, CRF450L, etc. Want a stupidly heavy, underpowered, underdamped, undersprung, hot mess of a bike? 250L.

I'm not sure why you bought a 250L. It really does work well for some people.

A WR250R has an OCI of 3000 miles, so compared to the others you mentioned, it's practical for a traveling bike. It's one I'm considering.

The main issue with the 250L is its weight. If it was 300 lbs wet and a little more went into its suspension, the late model version would be more appealing. The suspension can be improved after purchase, but the weight isn't easy to remove. Dropping weight should also help the engine.

I wish Cycle Trader allowed sorting by weight and engine output. That would help me eliminate many bikes. A good performing DS that's 300 lbs wet, 25 hp min, at least 200 mi range, with road going service intervals. Not much there past the WR250R.

 

[shade]

Yeah the 250L is ancient actually in true Honda form they don’t change much for over a decade in many models.
This segment seems to be the only growing motorcycle segment these days and the bikes starting to hit some of the traits many want are popular thats for sure.

Setting aside its weight, the 250L's displacement and price point make sense for the global market.

 

[McCarthy]

I'm not sure why you bought a 250L. It really does work well for some people.

A WR250R has an OCI of 3000 miles, so compared to the others you mentioned, it's practical for a traveling bike. It's one I'm considering.

The main issue with the 250L is its weight. If it was 300 lbs wet and a little more went into its suspension, the late model version would be more appealing. The suspension can be improved after purchase, but the weight isn't easy to remove. Dropping weight should also help the engine.

I wish Cycle Trader allowed sorting by weight and engine output. That would help me eliminate many bikes. A good performing DS that's 300 lbs wet, 25 hp min, at least 200 mi range, with road going service intervals. Not much there past the WR250R.

I bought a 250L expecting so much more than it is, I wanted basically a honda WR, and the bike felt great in the showroom and on the test ride. The weight is a huge problem (110 more pounds... That's 50% more weight than the ktm... Let that sink in...) Sure the suspension can be fixed, but the rear shock has to be replaced (Which i stupidly did, and cost me $1000 for an aftermarket unit), but then you need to add power to the engine, fix the gearing, somehow drop 50+lbs, and then you have a decent dual sport.

Not much past a WR? How about a KTM 250/350 EXCF or a CRF450l? Both fantastic bikes... Honda has a 1000 mile oil change interval I believe, which is just what it is, the KTM is 15 hours, but if you're riding it normally (i.e not racing it) most people do 1000 miles or 20 hours, if riding super easy on good oil 25 hours isn't un reasonable (say fire roads and in town use) though at basically only a quart per oil change (takes less than 10 mins) on the KTM, and 1.2q on the Honda, it's not bad at all.

The CRF450L is a bit more road orientated than the KTM, but it still extremely capable off pavement, and such a good bike, just a bit heavier.

 

[McCarthy]

Setting aside its weight, the 250L's displacement and price point make sense for the global market.

Yup, great bike for Africa, Asia, eastern europe where reliability, simplicity, and durability is absolutely paramount. If I lived in Thailand or one of the SEA countries i'd buy a 250L and throw a bit of suspension at it, but the options we have here just make so much more sense.

 

[Tex68w]

The CRF450L is a bit more road orientated than the KTM, but it still extremely capable off pavement, and such a good bike, just a bit heavier.

Drop the weight in the exhaust, extra bolt-ons, smog BS, and rear fender and you can get it down in the 270's wet, that's not far off from the KTM/Husky. I am happy with my 450L, I basically have a Japanese KTM 500 after all I have done and as much as I love the orange bikes I have always been a #ridered fan first and foremost. The 450L does have great on road manners for its class but I still try and stay off the tarmac as much as possible. Like anything, there's no one perfect bike or solution here, there's always going to be some trade offs and most of us will need more than one bike to satisfy all of our riding needs.

 

[McCarthy]

Drop the weight in the exhaust, extra bolt-ons, smog BS, and rear fender and you can get it down in the 270's wet, that's not far off from the KTM/Husky. I am happy with my 450L, I basically have a Japanese KTM 500 after all I have done and as much as I love the orange bikes I have always been a #ridered fan first and foremost. The 450L does have great on road manners for its class but I still try and stay off the tarmac as much as possible. Like anything, there's no one perfect bike or solution here, there's always going to be some trade offs and most of us will need more than one bike to satisfy all of our riding needs.

Yup great bike, just need to get rid of that choked up factory exhaust and off ya go! It still amazes me the 230lb wet weight of the orange bikes lol

 

[shade]

Not much past a WR? How about a KTM 250/350 EXCF or a CRF450l? Both fantastic bikes... Honda has a 1000 mile oil change interval I believe, which is just what it is, the KTM is 15 hours, but if you're riding it normally (i.e not racing it) most people do 1000 miles or 20 hours, if riding super easy on good oil 25 hours isn't un reasonable (say fire roads and in town use) though at basically only a quart per oil change (takes less than 10 mins) on the KTM, and 1.2q on the Honda, it's not bad at all.

KTM 250 EXC F oci: 15 hrs
CRF250L oci: 600 miles
WR250R oci: 3000 miles

Like I said, I'm not interested in such short service intervals. I can see myself (slow) touring much farther than that to get to the off-pavement places I like to go, and I don't want to bother with performing service during a 3000 mile trip. A true 50/50 bike is more what I'm after than just a plated dirt bike. The WR250R might be a path to that end.

Drop the weight in the exhaust, extra bolt-ons, smog BS, and rear fender and you can get it down in the 270's wet, that's not far off from the KTM/Husky. I am happy with my 450L, I have Japanese KTM 500 after all I have done and as much as I love the orange bikes I am and always have been a #ridered fan first and foremost. The 450L does have great on road manners for its class but I still try and stay off the tarmac as much as possible.

I've followed your progress and really like where you've taken the 450L.

 

[Tex68w]

KTM 250 EXC F oci: 15 hrs
CRF250L oci: 600 miles
WR250R oci: 3000 miles

Like I said, I'm not interested in such short service intervals. I can see myself (slow) touring much farther than that to get to the off-pavement places I like to go, and I don't want to bother with performing service during a 3000 mile trip. A true 50/50 bike is more what I'm after than just a plated dirt bike. The WR250R might be a path to that end.



I've followed your progress and really like where you've taken the 450L.

Thanks, it's been an adventure and not a cheap one lol! Is it bad that I am now having thoughts about a Husky 701 or Tenere 700 instead lol. In a perfect world I'd have the 450L , one of those middle weight ADV bikes (700-800cc) and a smoker for the single track but I am not sure I can justify all three. I have to decide if the 450L has a place in the lineup or if I should broaden my quiver of bikes and leave out the middle ground which is the 450L.