2020 EarthCruiser?

[gregmchugh]

Why would I want that? Why use propane when can power everything from solar?

Also, after owning a brand new four wheel camper Hawk for a year and having nothing but issues and headaches with the Dometic/Atwood furnace, I’ve determined their stuff is basically trash with zero customer service.

Yeah, I’m sure people will claim they’ve had _____ For ____ years with no issues and that’s fine, I won’t get into an internet argument.

Dometic / Atwood’s new stuff is garbage and I’ll stand behind that statement all day everyday.

For everyone lucky soul that has their stuff with no issues, 2 are pissed off and trying to fix theirs

As I recall, you are building on a gasoline RAM. What do you plan to use for a heater?

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

As I recall, you are building on a gasoline RAM. What do you plan to use for a heater?

Not 100% sure yet, but as of now, I’m really liking the idea of a 12v water heater and a GASOLINE (not diesel) Webasto plumbed right into the aux fuel port like it was designed for.. sounds great in theory, unknown if real world will be the same

This build will be some trial and error of course

 

[pugslyyy]

Just because it doesn't make sense for you, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense...

To answer your question... On my last month+ trip i showered every 3 days...

I am planning on a 1050ah battery bank, 80ah for a tank of hot water is of zero issue, neither is the induction cook stove, or the microwave.

You've never seen a Dometic/Atwood unit fail?? Hahahahahahaha, Join the FWC facebook group, or do some googling sir...

A recent post from Stan Kennedy Himself, responding to all the complaints and backlash:

Date: December 16, 2019​

To: Four Wheel Camper Owners​

Re: Dometic Furnace Information & Update​

​

Thank you for being part of the Four Wheel Camper community! Our Four Wheel Camper company team relishes the relationships we all have together. This makes the recent communication about furnace problems more disturbing to us. In the last few weeks these problems have again been presented to us via social media, phone calls, and the So Cal customer rally. If you are one of the customers experiencing furnace problems, you have our greatest apology.​

​

.​

.​

. (WOT edited for brevity)​

I simply stated that I had not seen a stinger element fail (i.e. the electric resistive heating element). I didn't say I had never seen an RV forced air furnace fail (I recognize it can be a bit confusing since they both produce heat, but furnaces are actually completely different devices from hot water heaters). Thanks for posting Stan Kennedy's thoughtfully worded document on the challenges that they are facing with RV Furnaces, however. It is both informative and educational!

Hot water heaters are used to heat water, and as such have a big heat sink (the tank of water) to protect them. The furnace is used to heat the air inside the camper (much less dense than water) and depends on airflow to avoid overheating since it doesn't have the big heat sink of that 6 gallon water tank.

Most of the issues I have seen related to forced air furnaces are the failsafe mechanisms that verify everything is working as intended - when the sensors aren't able to confirm the fan is blowing, for example, it will shut the system down for safety.

Good luck with your build, whatever route you choose to take!

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

I simply stated that I had not seen a stinger element fail (i.e. the electric resistive heating element). I didn't say I had never seen an RV forced air furnace fail (I recognize it can be a bit confusing since they both produce heat, but furnaces are actually completely different devices from hot water heaters). Thanks for posting Stan Kennedy's thoughtfully worded document on the challenges that they are facing with RV Furnaces, however. It is both informative and educational!

Hot water heaters are used to heat water, and as such have a big heat sink (the tank of water) to protect them. The furnace is used to heat the air inside the camper (much less dense than water) and depends on airflow to avoid overheating since it doesn't have the big heat sink of that 6 gallon water tank.

Most of the issues I have seen related to forced air furnaces are the failsafe mechanisms that verify everything is working as intended - when the sensors aren't able to confirm the fan is blowing, for example, it will shut the system down for safety.

Good luck with your build, whatever route you choose to take!

Yeah, they’re 2 completely different systems for sure.

I was more pasting that/commenting on how bad the Dometic/Atwood QC has been the last couple years, is all.

 

[gregmchugh]

Not 100% sure yet, but as of now, I’m really liking the idea of a 12v water heater and a GASOLINE (not diesel) Webasto plumbed right into the aux fuel port like it was designed for.. sounds great in theory, unknown if real world will be the same

This build will be some trial and error of course

Very good, what are you planning for charging your battery bank? How much solar? What other chargers?

 

[pugslyyy]

Very good, what are planning for charging your battery bank? How much solar? What other chargers?

I'm interested too! From what I've seen I think Battleborn is presenting some of the best LiFePO4 options (cost/performance ratio) out there these days but always interested in evaluating other options!

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

Very good, what are you planning for charging your battery bank? How much solar? What other chargers?

I used the the Perfect Switch (http://perfectswitch.com/) dual rectifier isolators in 4 different builds over the last 15 years and absolutely swear by them.

There will also be provisions for solar (ive had amazing results with the victron stuff) and shore power of course, but the bulk of the charging will come from charging while driving.

I am not one to sit in one spot for days at a time. Not even close. A properly wired system can provide ample charge while driving.

The new truck will have dual alts putting out 380 amps from the factory.

I will be detailing this a lot more in my build thread once the truck arrive (mid Feb or early march).

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

I'm interested too! From what I've seen I think Battleborn is presenting some of the best LiFePO4 options (cost/performance ratio) out there these days but always interested in evaluating other options!

I'm not even remotely sold on all these crazy claims from the lithium battery folks.

Sure, sounds good on paper, but in all reality, the tech simply hasn't been tested in the field long enough to even remotely back up their claims and justify the silly prices.

Could it be as good as they claim? Sure... Anything is possible

What is a known, is the reliability and longevity of AGM. I've been running Lifeline and Odysseys over 15 years and abusing the hell out of them with no one single failure ever.

That's a known, and to me, that means a lot more than some claims on paper.

When some folks have been running and abusing Lithium's for 5+ years, maybe i'll take them serious and look into them more. But for now, they're just good on paper in my opinion.

I had put some lithiums in a few of my motos and although they boasted much more CCA's and such, they absotuley sucked below 40 degrees or so, and wouldnt even turn the bike over on a full charge.

Also, and i haven't confirmed this, but i've read a TON of stuff stating lithiums dont charge below freezing. I do a lot of winter camping. That's the last thing i want to be worrying about.

I pulled them out of all my motos and went back to lead and never an issue.

 

[gregmchugh]

I'm not even remotely sold on all these crazy claims from the lithium battery folks.

Sure, sounds good on paper, but in all reality, the tech simply hasn't been tested in the field long enough to even remotely back up their claims and justify the silly prices.

Could it be as good as they claim? Sure... Anything is possible

What is a known, is the reliability and longevity of AGM. I've been running Lifeline and Odysseys over 15 years and abusing the hell out of them with no one single failure ever.

That's a known, and to me, that means a lot more than some claims on paper.

When some folks have been running and abusing Lithium's for 5+ years, maybe i'll take them serious and look into them more. But for now, they're just good on paper in my opinion.

I had put some lithiums in a few of my motos and although they boasted much more CCA's and such, they absotuley sucked below 40 degrees or so, and wouldnt even turn the bike over on a full charge.

Also, and i haven't confirmed this, but i've read a TON of stuff stating lithiums dont charge below freezing. I do a lot of winter camping. That's the last thing i want to be worrying about.

I pulled them out of all my motos and went back to lead and never an issue.

Whatever works for you.

If you are willing to pay for high quality marine electrical systems then the lithium battery systems are very reliable and proven. We happen to have an integrated Mastervolt system in our GXV truck with 720 AH of Lithium batteries, 4000 watt inverter/200 amp charger, solar controller, 1000 watts of solar, and in our case a 6000 watt Onan Quiet Diesel generator (only needed when we are using the air conditioner a lot or when we are stationary and not much solar charging for a few days). All the Mastervolt units are networked together and the lithium batteries control the charging. Our batteries are located within the heated area of the cabin so no issues with cold weather. Victron would also be a proven lithium system.

For us, the advantages of lithium vs AGM are the lower weight and volume for the batteries for the same battery capacity and the flexible charging of the batteries with no need to bring the batteries to full charge or for absorption charging of the batteries which can take hours to complete and the longer life of the lithiums vs AGMs.

Clearly a more costly system than an AGM based system but if you consider the overall cost of these vehicles, not unreasonable. We decided to go with a less costly heating/hot water system (Webasto Dual Top vs a Webasto hydronic system) and use the savings for the lithium batteries.

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

Whatever works for you.

If you are willing to pay for high quality marine electrical systems then the lithium battery systems are very reliable and proven. We happen to have an integrated Mastervolt system in our GXV truck with 720 AH of Lithium batteries, 4000 watt inverter/200 amp charger, solar controller, 1000 watts of solar, and in our case a 6000 watt Onan Quiet Diesel generator (only needed when we are using the air conditioner a lot or when we are stationary and not much solar charging for a few days). All the Mastervolt units are networked together and the lithium batteries control the charging. Our batteries are located within the heated area of the cabin so no issues with cold weather. Victron would also be a proven lithium system.

For us, the advantages of lithium vs AGM are the lower weight and volume for the batteries for the same battery capacity and the flexible charging of the batteries with no need to bring the batteries to full charge or for absorption charging of the batteries which can take hours to complete and the longer life of the lithiums vs AGMs.

Clearly a more costly system than an AGM based system but if you consider the overall cost of these vehicles, not unreasonable. We decided to go with a less costly heating/hot water system (Webasto Dual Top vs a Webasto hydronic system) and use the savings for the lithium batteries.

Yes, the Mastervolt system is top notch stuff, I’ve checked it out closely on my friends GXV.

I especially like their newest release of the Mass Combi that combines the battery charger/inverter and MPPT controller all Into one unit saving a lot of space. Definitely a nice option.

I guess my issue/argument with the lithium claims/costs about longer life is that right now, that’s all on paper. I don’t know anyone that’s had them more than 3 year or so.

I have 2 Giant Odyssey PC2150s that are close to 10 years old now.

Another feature on the Victron that is nudging me towards it over the Mastervolt is the app.

As silly and unimportant as it sounds, opening the app and checking all the systems in the truck/camper from inside my house has been super super useful.

I haven’t been able to figure out of that’s an option with mastervolt.

 

[gregmchugh]

Yes, the Mastervolt system is top notch stuff, I’ve checked it out closely on my friends GXV.

I especially like their newest release of the Mass Combi that combines the battery charger/inverter and MPPT controller all Into one unit saving a lot of space. Definitely a nice option.

I guess my issue/argument with the lithium claims/costs about longer life is that right now, that’s all on paper. I don’t know anyone that’s had them more than 3 year or so.

I have 2 Giant Odyssey PC2150s that are close to 10 years old now.

Another feature on the Victron that is nudging me towards it over the Mastervolt is the app.

As silly and unimportant as it sounds, opening the app and checking all the systems in the truck/camper from inside my house has been super super useful.

I haven’t been able to figure out of that’s an option with mastervolt.

Mastervolt lithium’s were introduced in 2012 so the life cycle specs should be pretty well proven in the field.

 

[pugslyyy]

Yes, the Mastervolt system is top notch stuff, I’ve checked it out closely on my friends GXV.

I especially like their newest release of the Mass Combi that combines the battery charger/inverter and MPPT controller all Into one unit saving a lot of space. Definitely a nice option.

I guess my issue/argument with the lithium claims/costs about longer life is that right now, that’s all on paper. I don’t know anyone that’s had them more than 3 year or so.

I have 2 Giant Odyssey PC2150s that are close to 10 years old now.

Another feature on the Victron that is nudging me towards it over the Mastervolt is the app.

As silly and unimportant as it sounds, opening the app and checking all the systems in the truck/camper from inside my house has been super super useful.

I haven’t been able to figure out of that’s an option with mastervolt.

I've looked at both the Victron and the Mastervolt as well and I really like the Victron user interface too (bluetooth and the big color screen on the control head). As long as I can monitor/control the whole system from one control head having a couple of different pieces isn't necessarily all bad - it should provide some redundancy in charging methods.

The big thing I have been looking at is the DC to DC chargers. I think that is the way to go for coupling a LiFePO4 house to a traditional vehicle electrical system.

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

Mastervolt lithium’s were introduced in 2012 so the life cycle specs should be pretty well proven in the field.

That is good info, i hadnt heard or read that anywhere! Earthroamer is still using Lifeline AGMs which is what i've run in several of my builds. Glad to see lithium has been around longer than most thought.

 

[pugslyyy]

That is good info, i hadnt heard or read that anywhere! Earthroamer is still using Lifeline AGMs which is what i've run in several of my builds. Glad to see lithium has been around longer than most thought.

pretty sure ER has made the jump to LiFePO4.

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

I've looked at both the Victron and the Mastervolt as well and I really like the Victron user interface too (bluetooth and the big color screen on the control head). As long as I can monitor/control the whole system from one control head having a couple of different pieces isn't necessarily all bad - it should provide some redundancy in charging methods.

The big thing I have been looking at is the DC to DC chargers. I think that is the way to go for coupling a LiFePO4 house to a traditional vehicle electrical system.

Mastervolt also has this. My friend has it on his GXV. Very similar to the Victron one with all the same functions. Mastervolt actually has a bunch of different options for this, can see them here: https://www.mastervolt.com/products/masterbus-displays/

One thing i didnt know about mastervolt i learned in my research is they have been around forever and are the parent company of Blue Sea and Ancor. Both companies i've used for years.

Odd, i have friends with huge boats and such and never even heard of them until i was checking out my friends GXV. Really nice stuff.