2020 Ford F250 on 37s - Expedition Truck Camper Build!

[tacollie]

17-19' F250 if I ever find one. It has plenty of payload for our FWC and I can't justify buying new though there is a 20' on a near by lot that is tempting. F350s arn't much more money on Ford's webpage but they go for more in the the world.

Are you guys running a front sway bar with the camper mounted?

 

[montypower]

We used a fleet manager to custom order our 2020. It was nearly the same price as the used trucks...

We removed the front sway bar. It rides much better especially off road.

 

[rruff]

We removed the front sway bar. It rides much better especially off road.

How is the on-road handling when all loaded up?

 

[montypower]

How much can custom leaf springs improve the ride? A TON!

I’ve had custom leaf spring packs designed for the past four truck builds. Properly designed springs not only provide the “lift height” desired, custom load capacity but also performance.

Stock leaf springs were not designed for high speed off road travel. They ride stiff unloaded. The ride improves (less harsh) with weight but the suspension performance loaded is poor (especially off road).

Our 2020 Ford F250 Super Duty came with a factory 3 leaf spring pack. The leaf springs are rather thick to give the rated load capacity but at the sacrifice of ride comfort and suspension travel. When the truck is loaded, the suspension compression travel is reduced drastically so it will “bottom out” easily.

Jeff @ Deaver Suspension designed a replacement leaf spring pack with the following objectives: ~4” lift height (with factory lift blocks removed) @ 3,500lb load with improved compliance off road. This was accomplished by using thinner leaf springs and increasing the spring count from 3 to 10 leaf springs!

The results are incredible! On road handling is predictable as the springs soak up bumps. We took the truck camper to Death Valley for further testing. High speed off road was compliant and smooth (45+ mph). Low speed rock crawling had a massive improvement in suspension travel (flex). You’d have no idea the truck can do what it does by looking at it.

Deaver is a family owned business. Jeff is the 4th generation running the business. His great grandfather purchased the business from the blacksmith Deaver. They kept the name since it was well known in the community. It’s so great to have good people offering quality products and filling a need in the market. Well known in the desert racing community but also providing “bolt” on solutions for overland and high performance trucks like the Ford Raptor.

Deaver Suspension - https://deaverspring.com/ - 714-542-3703

Have you experienced custom leaf springs?

 

[montypower]

How is the on-road handling when all loaded up?

It is very predictable. It has no issues in the corners or with sway. However, I wouldn't recommend removing the sway bar with the stock suspension.

Sway bars help on road in the corners to limit sway and slow weight transfer. But most don't realize it works against you in most other situations. For instance, turning into a sloped driveway or pot hole (one front tire) or off road. It will actually induce more sway and rocking as the sway bar pulls back against the suspension to keep it from moving.

We are using the "Carli Coil Springs" rated for a diesel which works out well with the steel bumper, winch and camper weight. Diesel trucks are about 800lbs heavier than this gasser. Ride is more compliant than stock. The FOX shocks really soak up the large holes/bumps. We've hit stuff off road at 30-40 mph that would have completely bottomed out the stock suspension and it is drama free.

 

[sumnrfam]

It was surprisingly good... Will be fun to tackle more challenges. Has me thinking about 40s too.

They are true rock sliders built custom by my buddy One 7 Fabrication. Steel welded to the frame. Top is plated for side protection. Camper tie down welded on the top. It's a low step in height compared to my old 98 Tacoma! Getting in requires stepping up on the slider... and sit down into the truck. It's better for the seats to sit into them rather than sliding anyhow.

Really enjoying this truck. Coming from Toyota world... Super Duty is the best build of the HD trucks. Really like the high pinion Dana 60 front axle with manual hubs (and vacuum actuators if too lazy to get out).

@montypower ,, can you elaborate on the manual hubs in the SD,, I am assuming you have the "dial" Xfercase selector?, "vacuum actuators" (hubs or Xfer case?),, Thanks,, Wade

 

[montypower]

For 2020 Ford removed the optional "manual shift" transfercase lever. It was available in the current generation from 2017-2019. I'm sure the lever could be retrofitted but the electronic 4wd actuator has been working well and not many failures reported.

The Dana60 has automated/manual hubs. When the hub is in the "auto" position the truck can "shift on the fly" to 4wd and uses a vacuum actuator inside the hub to engage the front axle. And disconnects the same way. Then you can manually turn the hubs which is more or less a fail safe to engage. The beauty of this system is that axle isn't turning all the time unlike every other 4wd on the market today (including RAM and Jeep). Less wear. Less mpg drag.

 

[sumnrfam]

@montypower ,, Thanks for the education,,

 

[Klutch7]

Thanks for sharing your concern. What trucks have you seen the spare tire winch fail on? I've heard people reposting this all over... but yet to see one fail. The weight difference between the stock steel wheel and ko2 on alloy isn't enough to cause concern (at least for me). It would be surprising if the engineering was that marginal on them. I'll be sure to share if it fails and build something beefy to replace it. FYI - Ford is putting a 35" spare under the new Tremor package trucks. So the weight difference you're talking is maybe 5-10 lbs.

Carli arms really are more about bling than function. They are notched to give 1/2" additional clearance at full steering lock. This is completely a non-issue with greater offset wheels and 37s. They give 1 degree of caster (whoohoo) - if they were adjustable then we'd be talking. The stock arms are beefy. There are no examples of failed ones. The travel is exactly the same. I've talked to the Carli guys about them too... there is nothing game changing compared to stock. But they do weigh more... and they cost a lot! I'll run my stock arms until the bushings give out then look at options.

Deaver custom designed rear springs for the truck to handle 3,500lb load @ 2" Lift over stock. Design is done. They are in production and will be completed next month (hopefully). Rear shocks are on order from Accutune: Fox 2.5" Resi Adjustable (to match the front). ETA unknown. Fox is redesigning their shock bodies.

Great thoughts! It seems you know your stuff.

I have enjoyed your build thread and the YouTube videos. Thanks for sharing and compiling. I agree that the Carli arms are a bit excessive, but did you do anything at the rear like a drop bracket for the factory arms? What about your sway bar setup - drop bracket or extended links? I am beginning to plan out a kit and it looks like piecemeal is best.

 

[montypower]

You don't need to drop the radius arm mount for ~3" lift. You will need proper caster shims to get alignment (I believe the shop installed 2.7 or 2.9 degree shims).

We had the factory sway bar and purchased the Carli end links. Carli guys didn't realize that the sway bar position changed for 2020 so the links didn't work (hit the springs). I installed the factory end links which promptly snapped. Then got the relocation blocks to make everything fit. But decided to ditch the sway bar. I much prefer how it drives without the sway bar. Hitting pot holes or bumps would jerk the truck. Now, the suspension can act more independently. Immense improvement off road. With the springs and tuned shocks it is extremely predictable cornering and no hinderance with it removed for me. No plans to use a sway bar!

Stuff we needed:
Longer Brake Lines (Carli SS ones worked great) - stock are not long enough.
Carli Bump stop drop
Caster Shims (provided by local alignment shop)
Carli Shock Reservoir Mounts (really the only way to have the tires not hit the reservoir - we tried alternatives)
Carli Coil Springs (3.5" for 2020)
Carli Track Bar (this is a great product - needed)
Fox Shocks Adjustable (from Acccutune) - King are excellent too. But think Fox may be the best at this point.

Deaver Springs (awesome - custom for weight) axle lift block removed
Fox 2.5 adjustable shocks (stock length) - cut the rear shock mounts and welded new tabs (added 2" ground clearance)
SS Brake Lines (custom length from Crown Performance - these guys build the brake lines for Carli)
Factory Leaf Spring Bolt (need to cut driver side or drop gas tank)
Carli bump stop drop (for block removal)

Think that is most of the suspension bits.

 

[montypower]

On this adventure we drive deep into Death Valley on the “less traveled” roads to explore the Hanaupah Canyon Trail. This is an off road type trail the gradually degrades until the path is lost completely from erosion.

We started the trail late in the day and didn’t arrive at our camp until after dark. The next day we proceeded to the end of the “road” and hiked the a couple miles up the canyon to find the oasis spring. The trail into the canyon became overgrown with large loose rocks. It was a grand adventure! We heard the spring water and kept going until we found the green oasis.

The best part was relaxing on a tall boulder and enjoying the amazing landscape. I’m always surprised how many people don’t enjoy the destination.

We had fun on the road back out and tested the suspension on the truck. This was an incredible destination for off grid, remote beauty.

Have you been to Death Valley?

 

[IdaSHO]

These trucks have a nasty habit of making tires look small

 

[mk216v]

In this video, we measure and test fit to tell you the maximum size spare tire that will fit for the 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 Ford F250 F350 trucks. This is really helpful as I couldn’t find any exact information online regarding fitment.

ANSWER: Measure your actual tire!!! 36" diameter spare will fit if fully aired down (many 37" tires measure about 36" when mounted on wheels). Requires force to jamb in there. 35.75" diameter spare will fit snugly at full air pressure. I installed a used 37" BFG Ko2 spare.

Wonderful info, thanks!
Any web link to more info on the Carli spare tire cage?

Better mileage for sure and holds overdrive way better. Once you load truck up, you will notice a difference. If you plan on driving any hills I would recommend. I live in CO, going up I 70 uphill towards tunnel with camper and 35 in tires before, gears I could barely hold 3rd to go 45mph. Now I cruise 60 in 5th. Big difference and worth every penny. Your transmission will thank you.

Better mileage with 37s/4.56 vs 37s/4.30, even though you're turning higher rpm's now? Or maybe because you're now turning higher rpm's and not lugging the engine like you would with 4.30s or 3.73s, and the larger (37") tires?
What mixed mpg are you getting with the 4.56s?

We decided to get the truck dirty and test the suspension and locking differentials. There was a steel hill climb with loose rock that was perfect for testing the front locker. Thankfully this truck has the factory rear e-locker (fully locking differential) and OX front air locker for full traction.

Can a 2020 Ford Super Duty rock crawl??
We decided to try it out on a Jeep Trail in Sedona, Arizona called Broken Arrow!

In one of the videos you mention adding PSC hydro steer, to help assist with turning with front diff locked. You must be turning a lot with the front locker engaged? Any concern with adding extra complexity when your initial goal was simplicity and reliability?

And can you tell us more about what you've found with the OX air locker vs ARB air locker, and the ARB leaking air (even if professionally installed)?

I appreciate your videos and information, keep it coming, thanks!

 

[montypower]

Wonderful info, thanks!
Any web link to more info on the Carli spare tire cage?

Better mileage with 37s/4.56 vs 37s/4.30, even though you're turning higher rpm's now? Or maybe because you're now turning higher rpm's and not lugging the engine like you would with 4.30s or 3.73s, and the larger (37") tires?
What mixed mpg are you getting with the 4.56s?

In one of the videos you mention adding PSC hydro steer, to help assist with turning with front diff locked. You must be turning a lot with the front locker engaged? Any concern with adding extra complexity when your initial goal was simplicity and reliability?

And can you tell us more about what you've found with the OX air locker vs ARB air locker, and the ARB leaking air (even if professionally installed)?

I appreciate your videos and information, keep it coming, thanks!

I'm using the factory tire carrier. The Carli hitch is crazy expensive and only offers room for a 38" tire. I'm happy fitting the used 37" tire (close enough).

I really doubt there is any MPG increase with lower gears. I monitor the real time mpg and every time I bump RPM by downshifting the MPG drops. It wouldn't be worth switching from our 4.30 gears to 4.56 - way too small of a change. Maybe 4.88 but then I'd want 40s.

37s and 4.30 gears = 10-12mpg average with the camper loaded on trips in mtns and wherever. Best so far was 13.5mpg. 4WD off road exploring for days resulted in 9mpg. Rarely have driven empty but would be 14mpg or better depending. Trailer towing it is around 10mpg.

Just got the PSC hydro assist ram installed. More testing needed and will do update video. It basically reduces the stress and wear on the steering components (think gear box, drag link, pitman arm). Steering force comes from drag link and tie rod. It makes turning easy. PS pump appreciates it. Helps mute or reduce steering feedback from the large tires (nice side benefit). Complexity is really minimal... 2 hoses and steering ram. I can cap the gear box if anything failed. Loved it on the rock crawler Tacoma - complete game changer.

OX locker has been flawless so far. Once I got the proper compressor pressure switch. OX needs the ARB 180901 which operates 135-150psi. OX needs to update their website. Love the beefy diff cover and ability to manually lock in if air failed. It defaults to unlocked. Think the only bumper is the limited availability depending on application. Vastly superior design to ARB from a reliability and complexity standpoint. I've easily had 10 plus differentials with ARB lockers... The older ones were better as they used old school o rings on the air collar. The newer ones have a squared off o ring design with can roll and leak more easily. None of the issues I've had were installation related... They are amazing when functioning properly!! But they they will partly fail and do weird stuff like sucking gear oil back through the air line when locker released. Or slow internal leak that will pump diff full of air. Never had one break though! Selectable lockers incredible (when working).

Hope that helps!

 

[Skinhyfish]

Wonderful info, thanks!
Any web link to more info on the Carli spare tire cage?



Better mileage with 37s/4.56 vs 37s/4.30, even though you're turning higher rpm's now? Or maybe because you're now turning higher rpm's and not lugging the engine like you would with 4.30s or 3.73s, and the larger (37") tires?
What mixed mpg are you getting with the 4.56s?



In one of the videos you mention adding PSC hydro steer, to help assist with turning with front diff locked. You must be turning a lot with the front locker engaged? Any concern with adding extra complexity when your initial goal was simplicity and reliability?

And can you tell us more about what you've found with the OX air locker vs ARB air locker, and the ARB leaking air (even if professionally installed)?

I appreciate your videos and information, keep it coming, thanks!

With 37's I would go 4.88 all day long. I wish I would of gone 4.88 even with 35's and the load I was carrying. Remember you have a six speed. Charts online dont give acuratte info. You will not rev to high. Less work load on engine will save your truck. If 37s go 4.88. I get 14 without camper. Camper was 12, but I dont down shift and stay in 6 all day on the highway. PM for my number and will chat about it if you want.

Zach