2020 Ford F250 on 37s - Expedition Truck Camper Build!

[montypower]

CHECK OUT POST #1 FOR COMPLETE TRUCK/BUILD PARTS (just updated)

I haven't done video on the rear shock mounts. It was extremely simple. Cut the tower straight across - shortened by 2". Then welded some shock tabs at the base of the shock tower. Maybe I'll get some pictures. But should be easy for any fabricator. We did go with stock length shocks due to them being raised. Essentially gained 2" extension travel with stock length shock and shortened shock tower. Then used the extended bump stop drop from Carli.

May do a video on the PSC setup. Would anyone else be interested in this??

All the parts are listed on page 1. Biggest challenge is positioning and fabricating the axle mount for the ram. Extremely tight clearance when you go through entire suspension travel and steering range. But we got it dialed.
Note: the "bolt on" axle mount from PSC doesn't work with aftermarket diff covers, track bar and really think you need 6" or more lift with dropped bumpstops to avoid the ram contacting the track bar. Don't waste your money on the mount...

I've run lots of shocks on various vehicles over the years: OME, Donahoe Racing, KYB, Koni, Bilstein, Radflo Icon, King, Fox.... They all have pro/cons.

Comparing the Carli King Resi to the Fox 2.5 DSC shocks... Both are top shelf. King is a quality shock. Fox has better parts! https://accutuneoffroad.com/fox-vs-king-oem-coilovers/

Carli has tuned the King shocks for their springs and empty truck. They are not adjustable. They don't revalve for your specific purpose. I wanted the truck to handle well fully loaded. This means the suspension has to be designed around the loaded truck weight and shocks tuned for the springs and weight. This gives the ability for performance handling while loaded (awesome). It also does well empty (bit firmer) but could turn shock valving down to help. Accutune takes the new shocks and valves them for your intended use/weight. The Fox DSC adjusters allow for further adjustment for slow/high speed compression. It gives you much better end performance that's easily adjusted.

Carli King Suspension Systems are selling like crazy to the Diesel "sideways hat wearing" crowd that wants the best "KIT" and thinks dropping big bucks will get them "the best" with no idea about of how any of it works. Carli is making a killing! Good for them. Carli has some excellent components. I'm just amazed at how people will drop $7-10k (with installation) into suspension with little research.

 

[Ninelitetrip]

Nice quick update on the build in the first post! Appreciate the detail. Thanks also for the summary on the shocks, very helpful. Mix and match with a wide variety of choices for your specific build and taste.

 

[montypower]

Yeah. A basic kit type system may be a good fit. But one size fits all approach isn't realistic for everyone.

Hope the info can at least help others decide what fits their needs/uses best.

 

[TheLex]

That's exactly my issue with Carli. In my instance, I have a F450 towing a relatively light 11k lb GVWR fifth wheel. I intend to raise my fiver about 2" and install a suspension with a bit more compliance, The existing suspension is just cheap leaf springs with no other means of dampening. I'd like to change out the hard riding commercial 19.5" wheels/tires for some forged 20" wheels so that I can run some 35" tires. That'll raise my bed height about 1.5" total.

I like the Carli Back Country suspension but I'm leery of the really high expense. It's basically a front levelling kit. The rear only goes up because of the increase in tire height (32" stock minus 35" new tires = 3 inch difference, halved). It sounds like I should contact Accutune for some Fox shocks front and rear. But I'm not sure what I need to do with the front springs to get those 35" tires to fit without rubbing. I know Helwig makes a sway bar that has an extra bend in it. Carli's solution is much more expensive. My intention is just to get the truck and trailer of handling a mild fire trail and deliver a more comfortable ride on pavement.

CHECK OUT POST #1 FOR COMPLETE TRUCK/BUILD PARTS (just updated)

I haven't done video on the rear shock mounts. It was extremely simple. Cut the tower straight across - shortened by 2". Then welded some shock tabs at the base of the shock tower. Maybe I'll get some pictures. But should be easy for any fabricator. We did go with stock length shocks due to them being raised. Essentially gained 2" extension travel with stock length shock and shortened shock tower. Then used the extended bump stop drop from Carli.

May do a video on the PSC setup. Would anyone else be interested in this??

All the parts are listed on page 1. Biggest challenge is positioning and fabricating the axle mount for the ram. Extremely tight clearance when you go through entire suspension travel and steering range. But we got it dialed.
Note: the "bolt on" axle mount from PSC doesn't work with aftermarket diff covers, track bar and really think you need 6" or more lift with dropped bumpstops to avoid the ram contacting the track bar. Don't waste your money on the mount...

I've run lots of shocks on various vehicles over the years: OME, Donahoe Racing, KYB, Koni, Bilstein, Radflo Icon, King, Fox.... They all have pro/cons.

Comparing the Carli King Resi to the Fox 2.5 DSC shocks... Both are top shelf. King is a quality shock. Fox has better parts! https://accutuneoffroad.com/fox-vs-king-oem-coilovers/

Carli has tuned the King shocks for their springs and empty truck. They are not adjustable. They don't revalve for your specific purpose. I wanted the truck to handle well fully loaded. This means the suspension has to be designed around the loaded truck weight and shocks tuned for the springs and weight. This gives the ability for performance handling while loaded (awesome). It also does well empty (bit firmer) but could turn shock valving down to help. Accutune takes the new shocks and valves them for your intended use/weight. The Fox DSC adjusters allow for further adjustment for slow/high speed compression. It gives you much better end performance that's easily adjusted.

Carli King Suspension Systems are selling like crazy to the Diesel "sideways hat wearing" crowd that wants the best "KIT" and thinks dropping big bucks will get them "the best" with no idea about of how any of it works. Carli is making a killing! Good for them. Carli has some excellent components. I'm just amazed at how people will drop $7-10k (with installation) into suspension with little research.

 

[montypower]

You should have no issues getting the ride quality improved.

1. You'll want to start with the springs.

Front coil springs : http://www.coilsprings.com/
I've had Coil Spring Specialty build multiple sets of custom coils. You'll need to call the dealer and get the actual part #s for both of your front coil springs. They will build off the stock spring specs. Raise/lower spring rate, change height, load.... anything you want!

Rear leaf springs : deaversuspension.con
Jeff can build anything. Give him the load and height info. He can build a great progressive pack. Check out the video on our springs.

2. Shocks

I'd recommend Accutune. The Fox DSC shocks are excellent. They will build off your weight and use. You'll need to provide shock lengths.

3. Other parts you'll want

Carli Track Bar – needed to keep axle centered
Carli Bump Stop Drops – limit compression travel a bit
Carli SS Brake Lines – or custom from crown performance - may need to measure to see what length is needed
Carli Reservoir Mounts – best way to fit shock reservoir
Caster Shims (provided by 4WD alignment shop)
Icon Shock Boots – extend shock life

Test before adding a sway bar... you may not want one after getting suspension. Can you fit 17 or 18" wheels? That would make a world of difference with the 35s. Hope that helps!

 

[Klutch7]

Do you recall the differences in spring rate between the diesel and gas Carli coils? I'm in the process of piecing together a kit for my 2020 F-350 CCSB with the 7.3L and I was set on their new gas 2.5" (3.5" for the 2020 trucks) springs, but my plan is also to add a bumper and winch. Was there a specific calculation you went through that made you choose the diesel springs, or was it just because you knew you were adding more weight up front?

 

[montypower]

Carli holds all the spring specifications to themselves. I was originally planning to have custom front coils made. But after reviewing the weight of the bumper, winch, camper... turns out the Diesel springs are rather ideal for the Gasser truck. And they seem to ride and carry the weight well.

I think the gas springs will sag out a bit as you load weight. Probably fine for stock truck with small weight additions. But bumper and winch is easily 250lbs and may be a bit much for the springs. You could ask the Carli guys but that would be my thoughts.

There were a couple factors for me purchasing the diesel springs... first, they are not expensive. second, readily available. third, I ordered them before the truck arrived so really didn't know what parameters needed changing (so it would have been a shot in the dark). So far, it's working well.

 

[tacollie]

I called about the gas springs yesterday. Granted my truck is a 19' but they didn't think I would see a full 2.5" with my 6.2l.

@montypower did you lower the rear bump stops to have contact sooner than the stock location? Basically less up travel?

 

[montypower]

I called about the gas springs yesterday. Granted my truck is a 19' but they didn't think I would see a full 2.5" with my 6.2l.

@montypower did you lower the rear bump stops to have contact sooner than the stock location? Basically less up travel?

I'd try the diesel springs on a gasser truck even with no additional weight. They really drop the spring rate significantly. You'll immediately feel the difference. There are probably twice as many coil wraps compared to the stock springs. Stock springs have a really high spring rate (resulting in a harsher ride).

Lowered the bump stops due to removing the lift blocks. Deaver springs were designed to sit directly on the axle. But the bump stop was designed to contact the lift block "ear"... so needed to drop the bump stop since now it contacts the axle (further distance). If you keep the lift block... then no need to add bump stop drop.

 

[tacollie]

I'd try the diesel springs on a gasser truck even with no additional weight. They really drop the spring rate significantly. You'll immediately feel the difference. There are probably twice as many coil wraps compared to the stock springs. Stock springs have a really high spring rate (resulting in a harsher ride).

Lowered the bump stops due to removing the lift blocks. Deaver springs were designed to sit directly on the axle. But the bump stop was designed to contact the lift block "ear"... so needed to drop the bump stop since now it contacts the axle (further distance). If you keep the lift block... then no need to add bump stop drop.

Cool. I wasn't sure if you needed to limit the up travel to protect the shocks.

I'm going to with the gas springs. We are running 35s and these trucks are already so tall. Like you said springs are cheap. I can change them if it's not enough height.

 

[mk216v]

Comparing the Carli King Resi to the Fox 2.5 DSC shocks... Both are top shelf. King is a quality shock. Fox has better parts! https://accutuneoffroad.com/fox-vs-king-oem-coilovers/

Carli has tuned the King shocks for their springs and empty truck. They are not adjustable. They don't revalve for your specific purpose. I wanted the truck to handle well fully loaded. This means the suspension has to be designed around the loaded truck weight and shocks tuned for the springs and weight. This gives the ability for performance handling while loaded (awesome). It also does well empty (bit firmer) but could turn shock valving down to help. Accutune takes the new shocks and valves them for your intended use/weight. The Fox DSC adjusters allow for further adjustment for slow/high speed compression. It gives you much better end performance that's easily adjusted.

Carli King Suspension Systems are selling like crazy to the Diesel "sideways hat wearing" crowd that wants the best "KIT" and thinks dropping big bucks will get them "the best" with no idea about of how any of it works. Carli is making a killing! Good for them. Carli has some excellent components. I'm just amazed at how people will drop $7-10k (with installation) into suspension with little research.

Dan at Carli will tune based on axle weights. In fact, he wouldn't sell me a Carli/King Pintop setup until I have my flatbed/camper on and get axle weights. Too expensive of a suspension to guess at weights.

That being said, I asked about adding compression adjustability and the Fox DSC's as Peter has;
"The Fox DSC are fantastic, however, anyone wanting that functionality, I recommend running the DSC reservoirs on their Kings if it won’t kill their OCD to run a Fox resi on a King shock."
However, Carli won't do this style of custom setup. You'd have to have another retailer (like Accutune) do this for you.

PS--I'd love to see a separate video on the PSC setup. Will your fab guy make brackets to sell, since it sounds like he nailed it for you?

 

[montypower]

That's great that Carli will tune for the truck weight. Makes it a much more viable option. Althought, bummer they don't do the adjusters or use FOX. Did you ask why they aren't selling the 2.5 Fox?

Yes, PSC video would be interesting. Maybe when we go to Moab so the benefit can be easily seen.

He didn't make a template. I can get photos to help match/duplicate location and position. You'd still be wise to pull the coil springs and run the full steering / suspension travel range to verify clearance.

 

[mk216v]

That's great that Carli will tune for the truck weight. Makes it a much more viable option. Althought, bummer they don't do the adjusters or use FOX. Did you ask why they aren't selling the 2.5 Fox?

Yes, PSC video would be interesting. Maybe when we go to Moab so the benefit can be easily seen.

He didn't make a template. I can get photos to help match/duplicate location and position. You'd still be wise to pull the coil springs and run the full steering / suspension travel range to verify clearance.

Carli/King might be a more expensive option than others, but it seems that for a "buy and go" setup, they continue to get great reviews for their Carli tunes. Hopefully not all that feedback is coming from sideways-hat Glamis dune-jumping bro-trux. I will say that Dan at Carli's level of customer service, when I still have yet to buy their full susp (due to needing axle weights), is one of the best in this business. So, I'm still confident that their setup, when tuned for axle weights, plus their custom-spec'd Deaver springs (based on axle weights), will be damn good. Would LSC/HSC "DSC" adjusters make them even better? Yep, but a bit more work to see that setup come together.
Don't forget they use Fox 2.0's, just not the higher end/commercial 2.5's. I haven't asked Dan why--I bug him enough with other questions LOL. In these covid times, I bet they're having a heck of a time getting any Fox. I surprised you could get some from Accutune. Fox has gone dark with communication.

We appreciate the future PSC Moab video.

Ok on no template. Thanks for the offer for photos though.

Happy New Year P&F!

 

[Grngiant]

I'm curious about why you are still running the Fox steering stabilizer. The PCS ram should be acting like a stabilizer along with is assist.

 

[montypower]

I'm curious about why you are still running the Fox steering stabilizer. The PCS ram should be acting like a stabilizer along with is assist.

That's an astute observation. PCS ram can somewhat act to dampen steering feedback. It also somewhat gives a slight "float" feeling to the steering while "on center" (think hwy cruising). And the factory steering already has a bit of that feel. Fox stabilizer helps give a more resistance feeling to the steering (adjustable). My wife likes how it feels with the stabilizer and I agree. So it stays for now.

Still need to design a different frame mount for the stabilizer to reduce the angle. Less angle = more effective/efficient.