2021 Overland Explorer Vehicles (OEV) CAMP-HBE pop-up flatbed pickup camper (renamed the "Hudson Bay" for 2023 model year)

[HowardH]

Lots of great comments.

Regarding costs and value. Frankly no OEV product successfully competes on the value field. You can purchase 2-3 less expensive campers for the cost of one of the least costly OEV campers and have more features. Also, if we are being honest with ourselves almost all of us use our campers mostly in places that most C class motorhomes can travel to. No they will not last as long or hold up as well. However strictly from a price point that is overcome by the much lower price. You are not looking for value with an OEV product, my opinion, except as it compares to other premium campers.

What you get is enjoyment of ownership, don’t underestimate that. There is not a single time when I use my camper that I don’t notice and appreciate the build quality and attention to detail. In a world where most things are built to a price point, I enjoy owning something that is built to a standard and the price is what it is. You also get durability, longevity, and reliability. My opinion of course.

The HBE initial price is attractive. However, by the time I had mine built out with all options and the tray the price was less than double the cost of the Base Camp. Not for everyone but I am in a position where I have proven, with my Summit 12X, that I use it and the style and its capabilities works for me.

The built-on camper has real advantages that are attractive. I like the flat bed, daily driver concept but the reality is my removable Summit has never one single time been removed to use the truck in another capacity. This after four plus years of ownership. I also consider that the trucks tow capacity will exceed whatever I need with the Base Camp on it.

Yes, it is true that for 75%-95% of what I use it for a typical class C motorhome would work. I like the rest of us dream of using it more for those adventures that require its capabilities. Lets also not underestimate the benefit of a solidly built rig we can bomb down washboard roads with, without worry.

One thing I do want is more storage, the Base Camp has that. For the record I don’t pack a lot of stuff. My Summit has cabinets I have never used.

I also like the idea of the truck powered AC unit. I can run it while traveling and I don’t mind the truck engine idling. Idling puts almost no stress on the engine and rebuilds are cheap all things considered. Also is fuel composition at idle that different from a generator? Depends upon how you look at it. Honda 2000’s seem to burn about .2/gal/hr. However to run an AC you will need 2 of them and at high idle not the economy mode during which they burn the .2/gal/hr. In my experience the non eco mode doubles fuel consumption. So .8/gal/hr for two Honda’s. Over the road gas pickup engines seem to burn about .8/gal/hr at idle. So about the same. The difference is cost. How many Honda’s can you buy for the cost of one rebuild? How many hours, at idle, can you get before a rebuild is necessary? I have no idea.

Doesn’t really matter to me. The ability to run the AC while in motion or pulling off the main always connected engine is a big convenience factor for me. I own my camper to use it for it’s intended purpose. Anything I can reasonably avoid like set up and take down of generators I want to do. One engine, one fuel tank, always connected. Attractive to me.

One thing I do wonder about is the viability of a PTO mounted generator mounted under the truck frame. Assuming such a thing exists.

Mark at OEV has told me for some time now about the advantages of the fixed frame being way more than what a simple review of the numbers would lead you to believe. I trust his judgement.

Single source, well sort of, fuel for water heater, furnace and cooktop. All pulled from my truck’s fuel tank. Sort of, refers to the fact that the cook top is combo induction/propane. A single burner of each. So yes you need propane but as I would use it for outside cooking anyway it is ok.

FYI the reason for this set up is the ease of removing the induction cooktop which gives access to service the other parts of the heating system.

 

[mk216v]

Also at some point the simplicity of the concept is erased and you have a system complex and costly enough why not just step up to the Base Camp?

I also plan on moving to the Base Camp. I want the HBE to work, I like the simplicity of the HBE and the easy ability to take it off the "tray" and use the pickup for other things. Just don't think the comprises of weight, size, storage, lack of AC etc make it a good fit for my use.

Because there is a ~$80,000+ USD price difference between the HBE and the BaseCamp! A custom shower pan and slide-out potti into the entryway could be fabricated for much less than 3% of that delta.

I've loved those campers since they were first introduced way back when as XPCampers. Love the shower placement as well. Little different layout and design allows them to do the shower there. The camper is only for a long bed and the toilet stall is a bit larger than there is room for in the CAMP-HBE. Nimbl also has a false floor (I think the 80-gallon fresh water tank and heated 24-gallon grey water tank are park of what is in the floor pack). The false floor gives them room for plumbing under the floor you are walking on.
They are also $250,000 for the base model (of which $70,000 is an allowance for the pickup, so figure about $180,000 for the camper and tray). More of a competitor for the BASE-CAMP.

This recent article now says a Nimbl is $267k and doesn't include the truck (and maybe not even their flatbed)? https://expeditionportal.com/nimbl-evolution-camper-review/
Sizable price increase from what they used to be.

I also like the idea of the truck powered AC unit. I can run it while traveling and I don’t mind the truck engine idling. Idling puts almost no stress on the engine and rebuilds are cheap all things considered. Also is fuel composition at idle that different from a generator? Depends upon how you look at it. Honda 2000’s seem to burn about .2/gal/hr. However to run an AC you will need 2 of them and at high idle not the economy mode during which they burn the .2/gal/hr. In my experience the non eco mode doubles fuel consumption. So .8/gal/hr for two Honda’s. Over the road gas pickup engines seem to burn about .8/gal/hr at idle. So about the same. The difference is cost. How many Honda’s can you buy for the cost of one rebuild? How many hours, at idle, can you get before a rebuild is necessary? I have no idea.

Doesn’t really matter to me. The ability to run the AC while in motion or pulling off the main always connected engine is a big convenience factor for me. I own my camper to use it for it’s intended purpose. Anything I can reasonably avoid like set up and take down of generators I want to do. One engine, one fuel tank, always connected. Attractive to me.

Single source, well sort of, fuel for water heater, furnace and cooktop. All pulled from my truck’s fuel tank. Sort of, refers to the fact that the cook top is combo induction/propane. A single burner of each. So yes you need propane but as I would use it for outside cooking anyway it is ok.

Are you talking diesel or petrol engine? Most modern diesel engines, with all of their extra emissions components, do not handle extended idling well. You'd be creating a lot of headaches, leading to replacement of costly parts, even before an engine rebuild (proper modern engine rebuilds are cheap? You must have considerable money to throw around like confetti).

 

[HowardH]

You need to add on to the HBE the cost of the tray. I’d think you should also add to it the cost of the options that are standard on the Base Camp..

also 3% is less than 3,000, you won’t get much custom fabrication for that. Which could be irrelevant.

if the only issue you have with the HBE is the shower heck yes that is the best fit for you.

 

[mk216v]

You need to add on to the HBE the cost of the tray. I’d think you should also add to it the cost of the options that are standard on the Base Camp..

also 3% is less than 3,000, you won’t get much custom fabrication for that. Which could be irrelevant.

if the only issue you have with the HBE is the shower heck yes that is the best fit for you.

True on the HBE tray. So $75k for a "base" HBE/tray vs $160k for a "base" BaseCamp; HBE setup is still half that of the BaseCamp. Both have many optional extras for more $ (including house batteries).

$3000; depends on which state your custom fabricator is in.

Unfortunately the main reason I didn't go with an HBE is the disappointing lack of storage inside. The BaseCamp has a bit more storage yes (underbed is very helpful), but not a whole lot more due to the potti room taking up usable storage space, just like in the HBE. I wanted to give my $ to Mark a long time ago; been fun to see them grow and be a leader in this market.
I found a combo that will work better for me, with even more overall storage, before the BaseCamp was teased, at less than 1/2 the price. Cool thing anymore is that there's more high quality for everyone. I look forward to seeing a few BaseCamp's at my local OEV dealer; they already have a few in queue.

 

[sg1]

True on the HBE tray. So $75k for a "base" HBE/tray vs $160k for a "base" BaseCamp; HBE setup is still half that of the BaseCamp. Both have many optional extras for more $ (including house batteries).

$3000; depends on which state your custom fabricator is in.

Unfortunately the main reason I didn't go with an HBE is the disappointing lack of storage inside. The BaseCamp has a bit more storage yes (underbed is very helpful), but not a whole lot more due to the potti room taking up usable storage space, just like in the HBE. I wanted to give my $ to Mark a long time ago; been fun to see them grow and be a leader in this market.
I found a combo that will work better for me, with even more overall storage, before the BaseCamp was teased, at less than 1/2 the price. Cool thing anymore is that there's more high quality for everyone. I look forward to seeing a few BaseCamp's at my local OEV dealer; they already have a few in queue.

I am following your build with the new Aterra with great interest. Especially the stated weight of 1250 lbs wet or less than 1000lbs dry for a 8ft camper intrigues me. But this is a hard walled camper and its natural competitor would be a Total Composite camper not the HBE which is a pop up. The lack of storage is a problem all pop ups have simply because with the roof down they are much smaller than a hard walled camper. OEV could use the available space in their campers a little more efficiently though but they will never be able to compete with a hard walled camper in terms of storage. In terms of price they are certainly competitive with e.g. FourWheel if you add all the features which are standard in a CampX or HBE to the base price of the competing products of FWC. A Palomino would be considerably cheaper. I looked at them and their build quality is appalling. The way I use my camper a Palomino wouldn´t last one season.

 

[Ninelitetrip]

Because there is a ~$80,000+ USD price difference between the HBE and the BaseCamp! A custom shower pan and slide-out potti into the entryway could be fabricated for much less than 3% of that delta.


This recent article now says a Nimbl is $267k and doesn't include the truck (and maybe not even their flatbed)? https://expeditionportal.com/nimbl-evolution-camper-review/
Sizable price increase from what they used to be.



Are you talking diesel or petrol engine? Most modern diesel engines, with all of their extra emissions components, do not handle extended idling well. You'd be creating a lot of headaches, leading to replacement of costly parts, even before an engine rebuild (proper modern engine rebuilds are cheap? You must have considerable money to throw around like confetti).

Since the lav closet is an option and not standard I would look to put in several drawers, or a combo with a top loading tub like the dinette, and then a pull out low profile lav like the Wrappon. Sort of like the FWC flatbed Hawk. Maybe even fit some batteries there.

BASE-CAMP does have the option of the rooftop Dometic AC unit. Likely could run that off solar during the day, and then a few hours at night with the optioned 800 watts of solar.

I recently listened to a presentaion given by MB for the Sprinter. The current diesel model is limited to 2 hours max of idle before the vehicle must be moved and driven for a minimum of 30 minutes to accomplish a DPF regeneration. Interesting given RV companies are installing the Volta battery system which allows selection of high idle to get the Volta installed alternator to charge the batteries while at hi idle. How many Sprinter owners are going for that 30 minute drive after each idle period?

 

[Ninelitetrip]

I am following your build with the new Aterra with great interest. Especially the stated weight of 1250 lbs wet or less than 1000lbs dry for a 8ft camper intrigues me. But this is a hard walled camper and its natural competitor would be a Total Composite camper not the HBE which is a pop up. The lack of storage is a problem all pop ups have simply because with the roof down they are much smaller than a hard walled camper. OEV could use the available space in their campers a little more efficiently though but they will never be able to compete with a hard walled camper in terms of storage. In terms of price they are certainly competitive with e.g. FourWheel if you add all the features which are standard in a CampX or HBE to the base price of the competing products of FWC. A Palomino would be considerably cheaper. I looked at them and their build quality is appalling. The way I use my camper a Palomino wouldn´t last one season.

When the BASE-CAMP was initially announced there was a hard wall version but no interior drawing. Initially production was set for 2023 after the intro of the soft wall. Now it has disappeared from the website. That would potentially have had considerable indoor storage.

 

[HowardH]

Are you talking diesel or petrol engine? Most modern diesel engines, with all of their extra emissions components, do not handle extended idling well. You'd be creating a lot of headaches, leading to replacement of costly parts, even before an engine rebuild (proper modern engine rebuilds are cheap? You must have considerable money to throw around like confetti).

My personal finances are personal. I find your comment in poor taste.

Perhaps I should have said inexpensive and not cheap. 6,000 to rebuild a gas pickup engine. 6,000 hrs before rebuild. I think you should expect two or even three times that. Anyway at six and six your cost of operation as it relates to a rebuild is one dollar/hr. To me that’s pretty inexpensive/affordable. Looked at another way. One trip/month/3 days each is 36 nights/year. Three hrs of idle/day is 108 hrs or $108 for a full year. Plus fuel of course. Again pretty inexpensive. And how many years of idling before a rebuild?

unlike a separate generator the engine is already an included necessity for the truck as is the maintenance and upkeep. Using it as a generator also sure seems to add very little to overall operating costs.

 

[HowardH]

Since the lav closet is an option and not standard I would look to put in several drawers, or a combo with a top loading tub like the dinette, and then a pull out low profile lav like the Wrappon. Sort of like the FWC flatbed Hawk. Maybe even fit some batteries there.

BASE-CAMP does have the option of the rooftop Dometic AC unit. Likely could run that off solar during the day, and then a few hours at night with the optioned 800 watts of solar.

I recently listened to a presentaion given by MB for the Sprinter. The current diesel model is limited to 2 hours max of idle before the vehicle must be moved and driven for a minimum of 30 minutes to accomplish a DPF regeneration. Interesting given RV companies are installing the Volta battery system which allows selection of high idle to get the Volta installed alternator to charge the batteries while at hi idle. How many Sprinter owners are going for that 30 minute drive after each idle period?

perhaps the high idle overcomes the two hr limit?

my thoughts exactly on the lav closet. A pantry for me.

 

[Ninelitetrip]

perhaps the high idle overcomes the two hr limit?

my thoughts exactly on the lav closet. A pantry for me.

That was asked. The MB guys were very specific. Have to move the vehicle for a regen, and there is no indication it is happening. The system is designed specifically to inhibit regen when stationary. If the regen is occurring and the vehicle comes to a stop the regen comes to a stop it will only start again once the vehicle is moving. Once the DPF filter hits 130% vehicle no longer be driven and has to be taken to the dealer.

 

[HowardH]

That was asked. The MB guys were very specific. Have to move the vehicle for a regen, and there is no indication it is happening. The system is designed specifically to inhibit regen when stationary. If the regen is occurring and the vehicle comes to a stop the regen comes to a stop it will only start again once the vehicle is moving. Once the DPF filter hits 130% vehicle no longer be driven and has to be taken to the dealer.

no idea. Always something. I’d not own MB. Had four in my fleet at one time. Always breaking down. Most problematic rigs I’ve ever owned.

 

[mk216v]

I am following your build with the new Aterra with great interest. Especially the stated weight of 1250 lbs wet or less than 1000lbs dry for a 8ft camper intrigues me. But this is a hard walled camper and its natural competitor would be a Total Composite camper not the HBE which is a pop up. The lack of storage is a problem all pop ups have simply because with the roof down they are much smaller than a hard walled camper. OEV could use the available space in their campers a little more efficiently though but they will never be able to compete with a hard walled camper in terms of storage. In terms of price they are certainly competitive with e.g. FourWheel if you add all the features which are standard in a CampX or HBE to the base price of the competing products of FWC. A Palomino would be considerably cheaper. I looked at them and their build quality is appalling. The way I use my camper a Palomino wouldn´t last one season.

Yes, a TC camper would be a competitor to the ATO AterraXL, but I disagree that the AterraXL hard walled camper uses the space, namely the upper portion of the camper (ie above countertop height), any different than the HBE/BaseCamp soft walled/poptop does, as it doesn't. No upper storage in an AterraXL, 3 drawers under the cabover bed like the BaseCamp, galley storage as well as entry storage like a BaseCamp, under-dinette storage like a BaseCamp. The extra storage that the AterraXL offers is all due to the interior layout; OVE's HBE and BaseCamp have the potti closet (which is a feature we looked hard at in getting an HBE), but ultimately we gave that up for more usable storage in the AterraXL and a Wrappon potti under the dinette seat.
Agreed on FWC and Palomino/others' build quality. For that, very glad that OVE took the lead in the poptop sector!

My personal finances are personal. I find your comment in poor taste.
Perhaps I should have said inexpensive and not cheap. 6,000 to rebuild a gas pickup engine. 6,000 hrs before rebuild. I think you should expect two or even three times that. Anyway at six and six your cost of operation as it relates to a rebuild is one dollar/hr. To me that’s pretty inexpensive/affordable. Looked at another way. One trip/month/3 days each is 36 nights/year. Three hrs of idle/day is 108 hrs or $108 for a full year. Plus fuel of course. Again pretty inexpensive. And how many years of idling before a rebuild?
unlike a separate generator the engine is already an included necessity for the truck as is the maintenance and upkeep. Using it as a generator also sure seems to add very little to overall operating costs.

Always something. I’d not own MB. Had four in my fleet at one time. Always breaking down. Most problematic rigs I’ve ever owned.

I wasn't asking for your finances, but I agree that inexpensive is a better word choice than cheap. Apologies for coming across in poor taste. My point is that for most of us, thinking about a top quality (sadly, there's an entire spectrum of quality in this area) engine rebuild as inexpensive, isn't in our frame of mind. A far majority of us won't keep a truck long enough to necessitate a rebuild and/or put it in our vehicle budget.
Again, are you talking diesel or petrol engine?

I recently listened to a presentaion given by MB for the Sprinter. The current diesel model is limited to 2 hours max of idle before the vehicle must be moved and driven for a minimum of 30 minutes to accomplish a DPF regeneration. Interesting given RV companies are installing the Volta battery system which allows selection of high idle to get the Volta installed alternator to charge the batteries while at hi idle. How many Sprinter owners are going for that 30 minute drive after each idle period?

Not enough, I can give you firsthand experience. Seeing a lot of DPF regen issues (many vans won't put themselves into regen mode, so then along with DEF/tank heater issues, the dreaded "10 starts remaining" will pop on, which is actually only about 5 actual starts or less. Also, DPF failures and clogging SCR/cats especially with plumbing and electrician vans. Biggest issue right now is the EGR valve; none available for the last 6months/worldwide backorder, and meanwhile vans are either stumbling around or full limp mode.
Mercedes quality depends is Chrysler was involved or not. Merc's of the 70s, 80s, and early 90s were bulletproof for the most part. Any more, as with a lot of German engineering, ze German's completely overcomplicate the snot out of everything. And with more and more emissions equipment/sensors/etc, a lot more components to act up and be finicky.

Back to OVE goodness.......

 

[HowardH]

6,000 to rebuild a gas pickup engine.

if you don’t keep a rig long enough for a rebuild why does it even matter to you?

apology accepted

 

[mk216v]

if you don’t keep a rig long enough for a rebuild why does it even matter to you?
apology accepted

Because I might just love this combo enough to keep it for long enough.

 

[HowardH]

Because I might just love this combo enough to keep it for long enough.

then you’ll discover the cost to rebuild is peanuts compared to the cost of a new rig. ??