2nd Gen Raptor Thoughts/Comments

[plumber mike]

Well you’ve got a point. A new raptor won’t have any issues with a selectable locker.

 

[nater]

Have you cleaned the magnets on the power wagons lockers? They get covered in metal "dust" and slow the lock up... Clean them with a q-tip, and you should see the lock speed improve dramatically. Cost should be a few qtips and some gear oil.

 

[Oilbrnr]

The simple point is this, why should a consumer have to spend any kind of money to bypass the factory setup to get the lockers to work as advertised? I have no issue with these being a 4 Lo Application (I think for 2019 you can use the rear locker in 4 Hi), but the smart bar setup and lockers on the Power Wagon are an issue that needs to be fixed before I consider a new one.

Have you ever had them not engage when you need them to, as in you have a wheel spinning when it shouldn't be? I think guys fixate on the little Blinky lights too much. I've not read (though haven't cared enough to search) of anyone saying that the locker(s) failed to engage and left them stuck. I have read of failures due to the plug on the axle not being fully seated however, or the wire being damaged by road debris.

But, if a wheel is spinning faster than 3mph it ain't going to energize the actuator anyway by design. If that is what you want AAM and FCA to change, then you're out of luck. Neither want to warranty repairs due to someone with an ignorant right foot on the go pedal.

Most situations I've been in with mine here in AZ, UT and CA it is not often that lockers are even needed given the PW suspension articulation and taking the correct line, but when called on they have always worked like they should. Same goes for snow/mud. The front, is very infrequently used as I'm usually on rock and need steering control. So, for me at least, they have worked as advertised and as designed.

Even on my 80 series, just because the light comes on, doesn't mean that everything internally is aligned to lock and I alway proceed with caution until I can tell that they are, especially when using the front.

I can think of several other items on the PW that I'd change prior to complaining about the locker system, like gas tank size, gearing (addressed by the ZF), elevated RPM in Lo that can overcome the brakes, upper steering intermediate shaft coupling, hood profile (switching to/from an 80 is a shocker), rear panhard geometry to name my top things.

 

[phsycle]

I have zero concern about the payload. The biggest thing I tow is a 21 foot Pontoon Boat. Right now I'm considering the following when I replace my 2012:

1. New Ram Power Wagon
2. Ram Rebel TRX
3. Ford Raptor
4. Ford Super Duty with the Tremor Package

The biggest thing I have against my Power Wagon (or a new one) is the big ass pain the lockers are to engage. My wife has a ZR2 and it's literally as simple as pushing the button and waiting two seconds for them to engage. On the Power Wagon it's 4 Lo, push the button, then drive slowly while making figure eights just to get the damn things to work. It's a freaking joke, and the biggest reason I'm looking elsewhere when the time comes for a new truck. If Ram could get their crap together I wouldn't even look at anything else but another Power Wagon. I like how the truck rides, it can haul a decent load if needed (again not a big concern), and it has a good old V-8 under the hood.

If you don’t need the payload, you’ve taken away essentially the biggest advantage of 3/4 ton over a 1/2 ton. I’d look at the Raptor or TRX.

 

[04Ram2500Hemi]

Have you ever had them not engage when you need them to, as in you have a wheel spinning when it shouldn't be? I think guys fixate on the little Blinky lights too much. I've not read (though haven't cared enough to search) of anyone saying that the locker(s) failed to engage and left them stuck. I have read of failures due to the plug on the axle not being fully seated however, or the wire being damaged by road debris.

But, if a wheel is spinning faster than 3mph it ain't going to energize the actuator anyway by design. If that is what you want AAM and FCA to change, then you're out of luck. Neither want to warranty repairs due to someone with an ignorant right foot on the go pedal.

Most situations I've been in with mine here in AZ, UT and CA it is not often that lockers are even needed given the PW suspension articulation and taking the correct line, but when called on they have always worked like they should. Same goes for snow/mud. The front, is very infrequently used as I'm usually on rock and need steering control. So, for me at least, they have worked as advertised and as designed.

Even on my 80 series, just because the light comes on, doesn't mean that everything internally is aligned to lock and I alway proceed with caution until I can tell that they are, especially when using the front.

I can think of several other items on the PW that I'd change prior to complaining about the locker system, like gas tank size, gearing (addressed by the ZF), elevated RPM in Lo that can overcome the brakes, upper steering intermediate shaft coupling, hood profile (switching to/from an 80 is a shocker), rear panhard geometry to name my top things.

What I would like is to be at a dead stop, turn the truck to 4 Lo, turn the locker switch, and have stuff engage. That's exactly how the lockers work on my wife's ZR2. Simple.

That said, are you saying if I keep the truck under 3mph the lockers will engage?

 

[04Ram2500Hemi]

Have you cleaned the magnets on the power wagons lockers? They get covered in metal "dust" and slow the lock up... Clean them with a q-tip, and you should see the lock speed improve dramatically. Cost should be a few qtips and some gear oil.

I've had the dealers service the 4wd system every 15,000 miles. It's about due again (roughly 500 miles). I'll make it a point for them to service the magnets.

 

[04Ram2500Hemi]

And I'll be honest, I hate to sound like a whiny **********, I really do. I just expect things to work like advertised. The fact that the Power Wagon comes from the factory with all the goodies is why I bought one (and sold a 2004 HD Hemi and a 2010 Camaro SS to get one). I appreciate all the impute everybody has given. I've always looked at the Power Wagon as a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon that I can fit in.

 

[nater]

I've had the dealers service the 4wd system every 15,000 miles. It's about due again (roughly 500 miles). I'll make it a point for them to service the magnets.

I dont think its something the dealer would routinely do without being asked - but feedback from the power wagon owners is that it really helps lock speed.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Even on my 80 series, just because the light comes on, doesn't mean that everything internally is aligned to lock and I alway proceed with caution until I can tell that they are, especially when using the front.

My F-150 does that trick.

I pull the lever on the floor and the 4wd light comes on right away. But the front axle CAD is not engaged, so if you go to take off it will do a bone rattling wham as it engages and throws power to everything instantly. Eventually it will break the shift fork in the front axle.

BUT if you wait for something in the dash to click three times, you might even have to put the truck in neutral and let things move around... it is locked in for real.

 

[Oilbrnr]

What I would like is to be at a dead stop, turn the truck to 4 Lo, turn the locker switch, and have stuff engage. That's exactly how the lockers work on my wife's ZR2. Simple.

That said, are you saying if I keep the truck under 3mph the lockers will engage?

I'm not familiar with how the GM system works. It may or may not give positive indication that the differential is in fact locked, rather power has been given to the actuator to initiate engagement. There would have to be a method, as in the AAM axles, to let the system know that the dogs have in fact meshed.

This is a reply I got back from David RE statements on PWR from guys saying, "wow, after installing the bypass my lockers work instantly." Which, mechanically I know to be a low probability.

Don,

This is a misconception that has existed since the original designer of the locker bypass built it in 2013. In the factory system the indicator light flashes once it receives the command to lock an axle and then the light goes solid once engagement has occurred.

In the locker bypass, the indicator light goes solid instantly because it's showing that the locker is receiving full power as soon you turn the knob and it's not waiting for any conditions to be met. Differential rotation still has to occur for the dog gears to align, but as soon as it does, it's locked.

With that being said, I must say that after installing a locker bypass on my own truck, it definitely seems to lock more quickly and consistently (not to mention the convenience of locking in 2Hi and 4Hi) . I personally believe that exceeding the 3 MPH engagement speed limit is the reason a lot of the guys complain about their lockers not engaging on the factory system. Also, I think it's interesting the Ram has finally allowed rear locker function in all transfer case ranges on the 2019.

His bypass system does just that, bypasses the feedback loop that changes from a blinking to solid indication. It just gives straight 12v to the actuator, regardless of speed or transfer case position. This comes at the user's own risk, as you can engage with wheelspin, and also engage the front without the transfer case already giving rotational power to the front driveshaft, meaning also that the CAD (central axle disconnect) on 4th gens has not engaged. Not a good thing at much over a couple MPH.

While I've not seen pictures of the AAM lockset, I doubt they are much different than others. The blocks (dogs) that mesh are fairly straight cut, and there needs to be some rotational difference between the right and left axle shafts before they can engage. Sometimes, you may luck out and they are perfect, other times it may take a few degrees of rotational difference, and that difference may correspond to quiet a few feet of travel in a turn with a 35"+ tire. Keep in mind, that the factory system knows how fast each axle shaft is spinning via the ABS system as well.

FWIW, my method prior to doing the bypass, was N>4lo>D or R a few feet>N>select rear or rear/front>D or R. On any straight cut gear system, it is best to have no power applied from the transmission and a very slow if any, drivetrain motion. Things work best when not loaded up from torque.

Filing material that could build up on the sensors could give a false positive/negative to the system I suspect.

 

[nickw]

While I am a fan of the new Raptor... And love the fact that it's a capable vehicle off the show room floor with a warrenty... You can buy an XLT and build what you want for less money (assuming you are paying cash for everything). The power difference between the 3.5 and 3.5 HO can be settled with a simple tune on the 3.5.

One thing people seem to overlook about the Raptor is the resale value. They hold their value like crazy!!

But you'll still have a warranty on the HO 3.5...

 

[Deleted member 9101]

But you'll still have a warranty on the HO 3.5...

This is very true. It's a beast right off the showroom floor. In the Limited it's even more ofan animal.

 

[Explorerinil]

I have zero concern about the payload. The biggest thing I tow is a 21 foot Pontoon Boat. Right now I'm considering the following when I replace my 2012:

1. New Ram Power Wagon
2. Ram Rebel TRX
3. Ford Raptor
4. Ford Super Duty with the Tremor Package

The biggest thing I have against my Power Wagon (or a new one) is the big ass pain the lockers are to engage. My wife has a ZR2 and it's literally as simple as pushing the button and waiting two seconds for them to engage. On the Power Wagon it's 4 Lo, push the button, then drive slowly while making figure eights just to get the damn things to work. It's a freaking joke, and the biggest reason I'm looking elsewhere when the time comes for a new truck. If Ram could get their crap together I wouldn't even look at anything else but another Power Wagon. I like how the truck rides, it can haul a decent load if needed (again not a big concern), and it has a good old V-8 under the hood.

Are you sure the new power wagons lockers engage like that? I just bought a loaded 19 power wagon and had to engage the lockers today while taking down deer stands. The rear is just a push then it engages, the front, you put the truck in 4lo, push the button and your engaged. I did it all while sitting still, and it worked quickly and effortlessly. The lockers engage quicker than the rear locker on my f150 work truck.

btw I read an old post of your saying your knee hits the dial shifter, I’m 6’3 and my knee is not anywhere close to it, just make sure the seat is properly adjusted.

 

[Explorerinil]

And I'll continue to complain about it. I don't remember the Wrangler having the same issue as the Power Wagon. It's a huge source of frustration.

And a little fun fact, I had the original bypass when Morgan built them (I had serial number 2 I think), and I sold that to Able so that he could build the product he has now. I think he's done a little better job than Morgan, but it's the same principle.

The simple point is this, why should a consumer have to spend any kind of money to bypass the factory setup to get the lockers to work as advertised? I have no issue with these being a 4 Lo Application (I think for 2019 you can use the rear locker in 4 Hi), but the smart bar setup and lockers on the Power Wagon are an issue that needs to be fixed before I consider a new one.

I ran my rear locker in 2hi and 4x4 today. Drive a 19, the zf 8 speed is awesome, you can run up to 50mph in 4lo.

 

[04Ram2500Hemi]

So a hat tip to @Oilbrnr with the lockers. Turns out for 61,000 miles I was wrong with the lockers.

Step 1: Truck in 4-Lo with the transmission in neutral
Step 2: Turn locker switch to rear. Light blinks 2-3 times then the rear locks
Step 3: Turn the locker switch to front/rear and the light blinks 2-3 times and the front locks.

I did this procedure multiple times. The only time the front locker didn’t engage right away I put the truck in drive and went three-five feet with the wheel turned hard left as slow as possible and the front locker engaged.

I was always under the impression that the truck had to be moving for the lockers to engage (not sure where I got that idea). So I admit it, I was wrong. Lockers work as advertised if you’re not a moron like me.

I was also happy my sway bar disengaged right away.