3/4 Ton question- DIESEL 7.3l?6.4?6.7?Duramax?Cummins? for family rid and DD

[underdrive]

If you pick a problem engine to begin with (some of the early Ford engines) than yeah you'll have a lot of maintenance costs. From what I understand, the 5.9L cummins stands out because it doesn't have as much of the complicated emissions equipment, and from DIY perspective, it seems to be an easier engine to live with. I'm sure there are other engines/brands out there with a similar reputation.

Actually you got the Ford engines wrong, the early ones (the IDIs) are pretty much identical to the 12-valve Cummins in that they require very little maintenance and just keep running and running. They are, however, fairly low-power engines by todays standards, and are not as easy (or cheap) to hot-rod as the Cummins. But if that doesn't bother you much, I'd say they are a pretty good choice for someone who can tolerate an older truck (they were last available in '94). We have one, all she gets is semi-regular oil changes, belts once a year, and fuel and coolant filters once in a blue moon. Not a fast truck by any means, but all her other pros outweigh that one con. We also have GM's version of that design, and the same things apply to it as well - cheap to run, cheap to maintain, but if you wanna pull the Grapevine at 75mph with a huge camper on or behind the truck look elsewhere.

IMHO the last consistently cheap to own Ford diesel was the 7.3 PSD - the newer ones seem to be a hit or miss, and at least online for every person who loves them there seems to be another who's had nothing but expensive problems with the same engine. Of the later engines I'd go Duramax or Cummins, and definitely a pre-emissions model (unless she carries full warranty, then game on), their reputation seems to be more consistently positive.

 

[underdrive]

In reading back over these posts it seems like most of the guys who own Chevy's really like them. Most of the guys who owns Fords mention all the problems, expensive repairs, and engines to stay away from. Then they go on to say how great Ford is. I just don't get it.

It's called brand loyalty, and no it makes absolutely no sense these days, but people still continue to practice it. IMHO every manufacturer has good designs and bad designs, so saying one is definitely better than another seems kinda senseless. Luckily I don't think we get much of these shenanigans here on ExPo... at least not in the fullsize forum.

 

[tgreening]

General cost to own is not really that much of an issue for the diesel, even the modern one. Cost to repair is. And a warranty won't always save you. Warranties have been denied over water in fuel problems with the big 3 using the argument it's not their fault if the station you use sold you bad fuel. In some cases an insurance claim has saved the day for an unlucky owner.

They all have their issues. You hear more Ford because (IMO) there are way more Fords on the road and they, along with GM have been leading the way with emissions tech for the diesels. Dodge got a pass for a lot of years on the Cummins by paying the fine for every one sold. My guess is sooner or later they are going to have to dump that basic design in order to meet the increasing emissions/fuel mileage demands. Whether they can make that design transition painlessly remains to be seen.

The only one I haven't owned is the Cummins. ALL the others have had their problems. The biggest difference is the varying degrees of expense to repair. It seems the more modern the diesel got, the deeper into my wallet it went to be fixed.

I still say the OP is barking up the wrong tree for a general daily driver and occasional tow rig.

 

[Dalko43]

Actually you got the Ford engines wrong, the early ones (the IDIs) are pretty much identical to the 12-valve Cummins in that they require very little maintenance and just keep running and running. They are, however, fairly low-power engines by todays standards, and are not as easy (or cheap) to hot-rod as the Cummins. But if that doesn't bother you much, I'd say they are a pretty good choice for someone who can tolerate an older truck (they were last available in '94). We have one, all she gets is semi-regular oil changes, belts once a year, and fuel and coolant filters once in a blue moon. Not a fast truck by any means, but all her other pros outweigh that one con. We also have GM's version of that design, and the same things apply to it as well - cheap to run, cheap to maintain, but if you wanna pull the Grapevine at 75mph with a huge camper on or behind the truck look elsewhere.

IMHO the last consistently cheap to own Ford diesel was the 7.3 PSD - the newer ones seem to be a hit or miss, and at least online for every person who loves them there seems to be another who's had nothing but expensive problems with the same engine. Of the later engines I'd go Duramax or Cummins, and definitely a pre-emissions model (unless she carries full warranty, then game on), their reputation seems to be more consistently positive.

Should have been more specific. I was referring to the early to mid 2000's Ford 6.0L Powerstroke. The Ford engines which followed that one, from what I understand, have been more reliable.

 

[kodiak-black]

I went through this a few years back.

A good source of relatively unbiased fuel comparison is www.FUELLY.com. You can separate vehicles my make, model, year, cab configuration, and engine (gas or diesel). There's literally hundreds of thousands miles of fuel consumption records. You'll get a good idea of what the real "average" mpg for the vehicle you're looking at is in the real world. Then take that number and go to:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/savemoney.shtml and plug in the information. It allows you to calculate fuel cost based on number of miles driven, cost of individual fuels, and expected mpg.

Try to account for, difference in purchase price, cost of maintenance/ ownership, etc. Somewhere in all that you'll arrive at the right financial decision.

I went from diesel to gas using this "formula" and I'm much happier for it. I'm in the same boat as you as I rarely tow anything substantial. Made sense for me. Diesels can be fussy in a variety of ways, from maintenance frequency, c
old weather operation, EGR's, HPOP's, etc. I realized I just wanted to start my truck and drive.

There was a time when diesels really super reliable for the long haul. Now not so much and they haven't been for some time. And then there's the cost! My 2002 F350 diesel, crew cab, Lariat, 4x4 was $41k on the MSRP. Same comparable truck now goes for $65k!

Gas engines actually last a long time, much longer in terms of mileage than I tend to keep them anyway. My dad's 98 Chevy 2500 had 254k before sold it. It always did the job without any fuss. There's a big difference between "perceived" and "actual" need.

Think of your miles towing something as a percentage of your total miles driven. For me it turned out that I was towing my toy hauler less than 8% of the 15k miles I drove annually.

So now when I haul a trailer my engine is working harder sure, but it's designed to. People get their panties in a wad when their gas engines are turning 3500 rpm when going up a hill going 60 mph. Who cares? It's not hurting anything and it's operating well within range. Don't be afraid to let a gas engine work. That's what they're designed to do.

 

[Clutch]

So you made it all the way over here to preach your anti-diesel philosophy? Man, you're dedicated...

I am not anti-diesel. Just expensive to fix. I used to operate heavy equipment for a living, diesels are great for work, love them for that, but for a daily driver, not so sure... unless you tow heavy or need them for work...they are not cost prohibitive. As for the OP, I would get a cheap fuel efficient whatever for a daily, and camp rig that is only used for trips. Cars are cheap to maintain and feed...and you're not putting a bunch of miles on the play rig. My neighbor a couple doors down has a CCLB Dually for pulling his 5th Wheel, and a Toyota Corolla for his daily.

All I hear is jealousy. My fuel bill would be double what it is now with the current gas powered options. I also have bumper to bumper warranty for 7/100,000 so costs are $0. My diesel fuel filters cost a little more, and I use a few more quarts of oil per change, but that is a small price to pay a couple of times per year when compared to filling up twice as often ALL year.

I like to look at the total cost of ownership and not the fuel bill alone. Not sure how you are getting a jealous tone from my joking??? I put smilie faces.

When those trucks are out of warranty...it is the repair cost that is going to get you over gas. How is the truck not costing you, did you get the truck as a gift?