365 Project...with a twist.

DrMoab

Explorer
I really like your second shot of the tree and the nice sunset, but would have liked to see more detail in the cityscape in the background.

Maybe a longer exposure to bring out the shadows and that would be a framer in my book. I'd go back and practice on that scene

Teach me something O' master of Florida sunsets...

I struggle with this problem a lot. Taking that photo as an example. How do you expose to get more detail in the cityscape without washing out the sunset? It seems that the only way I can ever get detail in the clouds and sun is to have the foreground dark. I know with people or close objects you can use a fill flash to accomplish this but that obviously won't work for a whole city. Graduated ND filters? HDR? What other options are there.

I am going to go back up and experiment...soon as our fog goes away again...grrrr
 

Michael Slade

Untitled
Here are some thoughts on sunsets.

For there to be any detail in the foreground you actually have to have LIGHT hitting it. Without any ambient or direct light hitting the foreground all you will see are the point light sources from automobiles, buildings, streetlamps, etc...

The problem with shooting into the sun is that you are essentially shooting an object that is back-lit. Back-lit objects, by nature, don't have much light landing on the face of them. Unless there is a secondary light source or a way to reflect light back into the scene, you are only going to be underexposing the foreground.

Personally I am not a fan of sunset pictures. In fact, I won't let my students turn them in for assignments. I even go so far as to put it on a list of objects they shouldn't consider shooting for my classes.

If there is not a story to be told, and it's just a 'pretty sunset' then just enjoy the sunset. If there is a story to be told, and it just so happens to be when the sun is going down, then figure out a way to show that story and not have it just be about the 'sunset'.

Sunsets are for enjoying. Stories when the sun is going down are worth telling. Rarely do they happen at the same time. When they do, it is usually an extraordinary event that is worth photographing.

There are a few ways that you can cheat the difference in exposure between the sky and the foreground. There are a few on the board that have really learned how to use and perfected the use of Graduated Neutral Density filters. They can come in all varieties of flavors, and I would defer to Lost Canadian on the ones to get. I have never owned one, nor used one, so I wouldn't be able to tell you what to do or what to buy.

The way that I usually choose to deal with the extreme dynamic range found at sunset is to manipulate the exposure and development of the B&W film I am using. I can also control it with the various printing techniques and mediums that are available.

Occasionally I will be shooting digital and want to tell a story. One opportunity arose last night while driving from Salt Lake to Logan.

I am doing a project on the Great Salt Lake, and I have wanted to take a photograph along this stretch of road for many years. Usually I drive along this road when I am alone and have plenty of time. I have not been able to find the right conditions where I have wanted to stop and photograph very often. I have made a few shots there over the past few years, but nothing that I wanted to include in my project.

Yesterday, while we were running VERY late, and I had my car full of family and dog...the light was sweet.

So, I stopped and shot three separate times, each time making us even later for Christmas Dinner at my mothers house.

Basically I formed a hierarchy of importance. Here's how it broke down yesterday:

1. Photography during sweet light
2. Keeping my wife happy
3. Coke with ice from gas station (part of keeping wife happy)
4. Suffering mother's wrath at being late for Christmas Dinner
5. Keeping my kids/dog happy

In this shot I hurried and made several exposures trying to find the 'sweet spot' between the highlights of the sun/clouds and the foregroud. Once I found that exposure I made a three-shot panorama and stitched it later.

In post-production I adjusted the white-balance and actually found I wanted to *increase* contrast. That is counter-intuitive to trying to increase dynamic range.

The only 'trickery' I did to the image was to add a very slight gradient to the sky that ended just below the line of the water. No HDR, no bracketing, no Tom-Foolery on this one. It really is basically as I saw it, straight out of the camera. There is a 'glitch in the stitch' that I will have to go back and re-process the image.

Yes, I had to make sure that I found just the right exposure, and yes the light was super-diffused. But remember, this is an image that I have envisioned in my mind for several years and finally was able to make it last night.

It might not be the most spectacular image ever, but to me it conveys a sense of place and feels quiet, the way that the scene felt when I photographed it.

Larger Image
 

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MarcEdwards

New member
Great Idea Ryan, and thanks for directing me to this forum. I plan on spending the next 50 years and my life, to learning photography. I enjoy it, and love it. It consumes me...

I appreciate all the help from you, and anyone else. I will participate here as I can. I am wanting to become much more active in the community again, as far as outdoor activities.
 

MarcEdwards

New member
Here are some thoughts on sunsets.

For there to be any detail in the foreground you actually have to have LIGHT hitting it. Without any ambient or direct light hitting the foreground all you will see are the point light sources from automobiles, buildings, streetlamps, etc...

The problem with shooting into the sun is that you are essentially shooting an object that is back-lit. Back-lit objects, by nature, don't have much light landing on the face of them. Unless there is a secondary light source or a way to reflect light back into the scene, you are only going to be underexposing the foreground.

Personally I am not a fan of sunset pictures. In fact, I won't let my students turn them in for assignments. I even go so far as to put it on a list of objects they shouldn't consider shooting for my classes.

If there is not a story to be told, and it's just a 'pretty sunset' then just enjoy the sunset. If there is a story to be told, and it just so happens to be when the sun is going down, then figure out a way to show that story and not have it just be about the 'sunset'.

Sunsets are for enjoying. Stories when the sun is going down are worth telling. Rarely do they happen at the same time. When they do, it is usually an extraordinary event that is worth photographing.

There are a few ways that you can cheat the difference in exposure between the sky and the foreground. There are a few on the board that have really learned how to use and perfected the use of Graduated Neutral Density filters. They can come in all varieties of flavors, and I would defer to Lost Canadian on the ones to get. I have never owned one, nor used one, so I wouldn't be able to tell you what to do or what to buy.

The way that I usually choose to deal with the extreme dynamic range found at sunset is to manipulate the exposure and development of the B&W film I am using. I can also control it with the various printing techniques and mediums that are available.

Occasionally I will be shooting digital and want to tell a story. One opportunity arose last night while driving from Salt Lake to Logan.

I am doing a project on the Great Salt Lake, and I have wanted to take a photograph along this stretch of road for many years. Usually I drive along this road when I am alone and have plenty of time. I have not been able to find the right conditions where I have wanted to stop and photograph very often. I have made a few shots there over the past few years, but nothing that I wanted to include in my project.

Yesterday, while we were running VERY late, and I had my car full of family and dog...the light was sweet.

So, I stopped and shot three separate times, each time making us even later for Christmas Dinner at my mothers house.

Basically I formed a hierarchy of importance. Here's how it broke down yesterday:

1. Photography during sweet light
2. Keeping my wife happy
3. Coke with ice from gas station (part of keeping wife happy)
4. Suffering mother's wrath at being late for Christmas Dinner
5. Keeping my kids/dog happy

In this shot I hurried and made several exposures trying to find the 'sweet spot' between the highlights of the sun/clouds and the foregroud. Once I found that exposure I made a three-shot panorama and stitched it later.

In post-production I adjusted the white-balance and actually found I wanted to *increase* contrast. That is counter-intuitive to trying to increase dynamic range.

The only 'trickery' I did to the image was to add a very slight gradient to the sky that ended just below the line of the water. No HDR, no bracketing, no Tom-Foolery on this one. It really is basically as I saw it, straight out of the camera. There is a 'glitch in the stitch' that I will have to go back and re-process the image.

Yes, I had to make sure that I found just the right exposure, and yes the light was super-diffused. But remember, this is an image that I have envisioned in my mind for several years and finally was able to make it last night.

It might not be the most spectacular image ever, but to me it conveys a sense of place and feels quiet, the way that the scene felt when I photographed it.

Larger Image

Michael Slade, heard about you... glad I found you.

Ill enjoy reading your posts

http://www.facebook.com/marcedwardsphoto
 

Lost Canadian

Expedition Leader
I struggle with this problem a lot. Taking that photo as an example. How do you expose to get more detail in the cityscape without washing out the sunset?
I like Michael's points, so there's not much more to add. Really try to keep this point in mind though next time your out and you're trying to get a balanced exposure.
Michael Slade said:
The problem with shooting into the sun is that you are essentially shooting an object that is back-lit. Back-lit objects, by nature, don't have much light landing on the face of them. Unless there is a secondary light source or a way to reflect light back into the scene, you are only going to be underexposing the foreground.

There are times when you want to shoot into your primary source of light so I wouldn't suggest to never do it, but there are a lot of times that it doesn't work or isn't an appropriate course of action for what you are trying to achieve. If a balanced landscape shot is what you're after don't be affraid to turn away from the sun when there's a great sunset or sunrise. Allow the suns light, or moon light for that matter, to illuminate your subjects.

Case in point, these are all with the sun or main source of light to my back or slightly behind me, off to the side.
1135377276_w2Ak9-S.jpg
1135124396_d3sPa-S.jpg

1135120089_rdXux-S.jpg
1128098682_xSFLJ-S.jpg

1080633320_fpVG9-S.jpg
753112285_ZeLHn-S.jpg




Dr.Moab said:
I am going to go back up and experiment...soon as our fog goes away again...grrrr

Fog! That's my favorite time to shoot.
 

MarcEdwards

New member
I like Michael's points, so there's not much more to add. Really try to keep this point in mind though next time your out and you're trying to get a balanced exposure.


There are times when you want to shoot into your primary source of light so I wouldn't suggest to never do it, but there are a lot of times that it doesn't work or isn't an appropriate course of action for what you are trying to achieve. If a balanced landscape shot is what you're after don't be affraid to turn away from the sun when there's a great sunset or sunrise. Allow the suns light, or moon light for that matter, to illuminate your subjects.

Case in point, these are all with the sun or main source of light to my back or slightly behind me, off to the side.
1135377276_w2Ak9-S.jpg
1135124396_d3sPa-S.jpg

1135120089_rdXux-S.jpg
1128098682_xSFLJ-S.jpg

1080633320_fpVG9-S.jpg
753112285_ZeLHn-S.jpg






Fog! That's my favorite time to shoot.

wow those are gorgeous.
 

MarcEdwards

New member
i like your 365 day journey, I have broken mine down into 12 months of the year, to see my gradual growth as a photographer. I am a virtual newbie, but the sincere passion and love I have creates a fantastic work ethic, for learning.


I feel like im in heaven with the two links you provided to me today Ryan, thank you.
 

DrMoab

Explorer
Day 7

Still experimenting with off camera flash.

Today was my daughters tenth birthday. I thought it would be a great day to try and learn a little about portrait work. I've got a lot to learn...LOL.

Anyway, since XJBANKER is in the hospital getting his foot operated on, I took the opportunity to have his kiddo's model for me.

As Pat can attest, these kids make great models.

I took this photo in "landscape" and cropped it into a "portrait" If it's a little fuzzy, that is the reason.

Live and learn. I heard Scott Borne say a few times when someone asks him when is the best time to take something in portrait mode, he always tells them....as soon as you get through taking the shot in landscape.

I can see this for people and weddings.

5298487564_5cd6320867_z.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/docmoab/5298487564/
 

DrMoab

Explorer
:sigh:

This project is not working out like I hoped it would.

With the job I have I am always left it a state of total frustration because I travel all around the west but since I'm pulling a 100ft bomb behind me, I don't get the chance nor do I dare to pull off the road somewhere in order to get a shot.

Winter is our busiest season and I honestly just don't have the time to make a good photo every day. I think I'm going to cut this down to once a week. It's just the only way I can see getting this done where I can actually take the time to make a photograph...not just take a snapshot.
 

XJBANKER

Explorer
Aren't you supposed to make goals and stick with them the first of the year not give up on your goals before the first day of the year is over?
 

Michael Slade

Untitled
:sigh:

This project is not working out like I hoped it would.

With the job I have I am always left it a state of total frustration because I travel all around the west but since I'm pulling a 100ft bomb behind me, I don't get the chance nor do I dare to pull off the road somewhere in order to get a shot.

Winter is our busiest season and I honestly just don't have the time to make a good photo every day. I think I'm going to cut this down to once a week. It's just the only way I can see getting this done where I can actually take the time to make a photograph...not just take a snapshot.

I love it. You are learning just what you need to. Keep it up.
 

DrMoab

Explorer
I love it. You are learning just what you need to. Keep it up.

Thanks, Michael.

And Steve...this was one of my resolutions for the year. I would rather spend a week looking for a great shot than make seven so so shots. I think in the end I'll be happier with what I'm doing.
 

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