3rd Gen Tacoma PSA/Heads up
- Thread starter Escapee
- Start date
Hey Guys,
Thanks for reading and responding. Still on ignore by Toyota, only had time to leave 3 messages this week for the gentleman handling my case. I was able to determine the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) Standard for Speedometer and Odometer Accuracy. Now this is an industry standard, but is not a law. The standard is J2976-201602. The "-201602" just means that it was last revised in February of 2016. The accuracy that the SAE standard calls for is:
Speedometer - .99 to 1.04 So 1% on the low side and 4% on the high side.
Odometer - +/- 2.5%
I have not proven the odometer to be off, we only monitored the speedometer on the chassis dyno. As for those with speedometers that are off, normally it is off by a percentage, not a specific MPH.
Hopefully this information helps others dealing with the same issue.
Thanks,
Wes
Thanks for reading and responding. Still on ignore by Toyota, only had time to leave 3 messages this week for the gentleman handling my case. I was able to determine the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) Standard for Speedometer and Odometer Accuracy. Now this is an industry standard, but is not a law. The standard is J2976-201602. The "-201602" just means that it was last revised in February of 2016. The accuracy that the SAE standard calls for is:
Speedometer - .99 to 1.04 So 1% on the low side and 4% on the high side.
Odometer - +/- 2.5%
I have not proven the odometer to be off, we only monitored the speedometer on the chassis dyno. As for those with speedometers that are off, normally it is off by a percentage, not a specific MPH.
Hopefully this information helps others dealing with the same issue.
Thanks,
Wes
Applaud you, while I do agree that it should be dead accurate from the factory (with oem tire size of course.) On the other hand, compared to any other brand vehicle I've ever owned, except perhaps Subaru, Toyota has gone out of their way for me and many others when they certainly didn't need to. That is enough for me to disregard the 5%~ in reading. If it were my truck, it probably wouldn't bother me but if it did, I'd start with changing physical parts. 5%~ could be caused by some physical part being out of spec less than 1%. A vss not mounted perfectly flush for instance.
Renegade_Medic
Observer
You can also use some sort of scantool (OBD bluetooth adapter on mine) and check the actual ECU speed, it is almost always different than speedometer. In my 4Runner, the difference is roughly 3 mph on any speed over 40 mph.
It's further compounded by larger tires, but yiou can easily check the computer (odo) speed vs speedometer speed.
To be honest, I think this is kind a farce and you are likely wasting your time. That said, it's your time to waste. I don't know about you, but my time is very precious (read: expensive).
Not too much to report this week. I finally was able to talk to the gentleman that sent me the "claim denied" letter from Toyota. I was calling him to ask for a "claim denial" letter that actually said what my claim was and that showed me the Toyota specification for speedometer/odometer accuracy. He started talking very quietly and said he wasn't able to send me a letter like that because it would have to go past a review panel and the Toyota Lawyers. I figured that would be his response. I'm now on to dealing with the NCDS (National Center for Dispute Settlement). This is the agency you deal with when you have an issue that either cannot be or has not been fixed by the dealer/manufacturer. They have responded incredibly quickly to my claim. We'll see how this goes.
As for those that think I'm wasting my time, I appreciate your concern, but it irritates me every time I get in and drive the truck. I (probably every Tacoma owner) am getting cheated deliberately by the manufacturer...that bugs me. If by me pushing the issue I get my truck bought back, get a recall/recalibration for other vehicles, or just help others not waste time with this issue I'm good with that. I'm not going to just let them knowingly rip me off though.
-Wes
As for those that think I'm wasting my time, I appreciate your concern, but it irritates me every time I get in and drive the truck. I (probably every Tacoma owner) am getting cheated deliberately by the manufacturer...that bugs me. If by me pushing the issue I get my truck bought back, get a recall/recalibration for other vehicles, or just help others not waste time with this issue I'm good with that. I'm not going to just let them knowingly rip me off though.
-Wes
evilfij
Explorer
My experience with other brands is that the speedo is off, usually high, and the odometer is usually close to spot on.
I can't find a federal law on cars, but for commercial vehicles it is 5mph at 50mph.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/393.82
Anyway, I would be shocked if the odometer was off by 5% high.
My 2016 taco is 2-3mph high in the speedo at highway speeds based on speed signs.
I can't find a federal law on cars, but for commercial vehicles it is 5mph at 50mph.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/393.82
Anyway, I would be shocked if the odometer was off by 5% high.
My 2016 taco is 2-3mph high in the speedo at highway speeds based on speed signs.
I had my meeting with Toyota and an Arbitrator. It was an interesting experience. The quick over of how it all worked is: you start your claim with the NCDS, the NCDS reviews your claim to see if it is worth carrying forward to arbitration. My claim was deemed worthy. NCDS ask you how you would like the arbitration to do be done (in person, through written correspondence, or over the phone), I chose in person. NCDS then asks what type of location you would like to meet at (dealership or neutral), I chose neutral. Once all of that is taken care of you are asked to submit all the "evidence" you have that relates to your claim. This was pretty quick and easy for my case. Toyota then submits their rebuttal. Everyone involved gets copied on everything. After all that, you are assigned an arbitrator and a meet location and time.
The meeting was very quick, took about 25 minutes. This is my first time doing anything like this, so it was interesting. The meeting started off with introductions, then the arbitrator asked me to present my case. I gave the arbitrator the verbal run down of what my case was, backed with all my documents. I do think I missed mentioning some of the Lemon Law buzz words, but I think I was accurate in my description. The gentleman representing Toyota then stated that my vehicle is operating within Toyota specifications and said I didn't have an issue. I asked to see the specifications for speedometer tolerance, which he then stated be just had an email from one of his engineers that said there is a government guideline of +/- 5 mph for speedometer accuracy. The gentlemen wasn't able to provide who's guideline this was or an identifier number for this guideline. I provided the arbitrator with the SAE specification that I was using. The gentleman then stated that my chassis dyno test was irrelevant because it was not done at a Toyota facility. I did remind the gentleman that Toyota picked and paid for the test to be done at the third party facility. Things were pretty much left at that.
The arbitrator asked if we had anymore evidence to show, we both said we were done. The meeting ended and we are supposed to get the arbitration decision by mail.
Like I said, it was an interesting experience.
-Wes
The meeting was very quick, took about 25 minutes. This is my first time doing anything like this, so it was interesting. The meeting started off with introductions, then the arbitrator asked me to present my case. I gave the arbitrator the verbal run down of what my case was, backed with all my documents. I do think I missed mentioning some of the Lemon Law buzz words, but I think I was accurate in my description. The gentleman representing Toyota then stated that my vehicle is operating within Toyota specifications and said I didn't have an issue. I asked to see the specifications for speedometer tolerance, which he then stated be just had an email from one of his engineers that said there is a government guideline of +/- 5 mph for speedometer accuracy. The gentlemen wasn't able to provide who's guideline this was or an identifier number for this guideline. I provided the arbitrator with the SAE specification that I was using. The gentleman then stated that my chassis dyno test was irrelevant because it was not done at a Toyota facility. I did remind the gentleman that Toyota picked and paid for the test to be done at the third party facility. Things were pretty much left at that.
The arbitrator asked if we had anymore evidence to show, we both said we were done. The meeting ended and we are supposed to get the arbitration decision by mail.
Like I said, it was an interesting experience.
-Wes
Clawhammer
Adventurer
While I understand your frustration (and I admit that that's not the best customer service I've ever heard of... although I don't understand exactly what they could do...) I don't think this is an uncommon phenomenon. For example, my last ride was a '03 TJ and it had the same problem. I went up a size or two in tires and my speedo was pretty darn accurate at that point.
I suspect my '04 Taco could have had the same issue. I don't know what size tires it came with, but I'm running 235's at the moment and those radar things on the highway say my speedo is accurate now. That probably means it wasn't before. Maybe (Jeep and) Toyota expect you to go to larger tires?
I suspect my '04 Taco could have had the same issue. I don't know what size tires it came with, but I'm running 235's at the moment and those radar things on the highway say my speedo is accurate now. That probably means it wasn't before. Maybe (Jeep and) Toyota expect you to go to larger tires?
Clawhammer
Adventurer
Now that's a wise way to look at things. I'm going to use that.
dorton
#rockcreekoverland
Yessir. That's the way I read it.