4 season camper project

[Gentleman]

Greetings,

I have taken a closer look at electrical needs for the 'proper camper'. I have a sleep apnea and I use device while I sleep to gain better life quality. Tricky part is that this device uses a lot of power (it uses brute force to moisturize water). Specific information is not available for my specific combination of factors. My educated estimate is that it uses 160Ah on 12V DC (run through converter to 220V AC) per night. As I try to sleep while using it running a generator is not really an option.

This means two things...
I need frigging huge leisure battery (add another devices .. double to accommodate for 50% max drain on battery)
I need to generate a lot of power to charge the batteries.. Generator is already planned.. Now I am getting worried about the hours it needs to run..

I intend to include solar panels..
I think I will have to raise the priority of wind generator ...

Do people have experience on installing them on rv / expedition class vehicles?

Main issues I struggle with are..
How to accommodate a wind generator in rv so that it is 'packed' nicely while traveling and 'raised' with little/ moderate effort while parked? Many of the turbines seem to be 3+ blade designs which mean that the 'packed' volume is big (? is this assumption correct?)
Where and How to install the mast so that it will be secure? I am going for raised roof design so attaching the mast to the upper part of cabin is not really an option. Would moderate sized wind turbine be enough to rock the camper box in moderate/ heavy winds?

With kind regards,
Janne

 

[ianc]

Fuel cell?

I could never really see a case for one of these before. But given you need silent generation of power at night whether it's windy or not, it might be a runner.

http://www.efoy-comfort.com/technical-data

 

[biggoolies]

Hi Janne:
You can usually use your cpap machine without the humidifier. The humidifier uses alot of electricity. The cpap machine itself does not. That is what I do. It is not as comfortable but you may be surprised. If I can do it, probably anybody else can stand it.

Greetings,

I have taken a closer look at electrical needs for the 'proper camper'. I have a sleep apnea and I use device while I sleep to gain better life quality. Tricky part is that this device uses a lot of power (it uses brute force to moisturize water). Specific information is not available for my specific combination of factors. My educated estimate is that it uses 160Ah on 12V DC (run through converter to 220V AC) per night. As I try to sleep while using it running a generator is not really an option.

This means two things...
I need frigging huge leisure battery (add another devices .. double to accommodate for 50% max drain on battery)
I need to generate a lot of power to charge the batteries.. Generator is already planned.. Now I am getting worried about the hours it needs to run..

I intend to include solar panels..
I think I will have to raise the priority of wind generator ...

Do people have experience on installing them on rv / expedition class vehicles?

Main issues I struggle with are..
How to accommodate a wind generator in rv so that it is 'packed' nicely while traveling and 'raised' with little/ moderate effort while parked? Many of the turbines seem to be 3+ blade designs which mean that the 'packed' volume is big (? is this assumption correct?)
Where and How to install the mast so that it will be secure? I am going for raised roof design so attaching the mast to the upper part of cabin is not really an option. Would moderate sized wind turbine be enough to rock the camper box in moderate/ heavy winds?

With kind regards,
Janne

 

[AeroNautiCal]

I would use the LE-v50 Vertical Axis Wind Turbine, made by the UK specialist, Leading Edge Turbines, whose website is here.

The LE-v50 wind turbine is a robust and reliable 50W vertical axis wind turbine for boats which can also be used in a variety of other battery charging applications. LE-v50 wind turbines have been used to protect batteries from losing voltage and also for less energy intensive applications such as weather monitoring stations. Due to the high quality materials and rugged design, it is able to operate in the harshest of environments, and is often used in the Arctic and Antarctic.

Available in 12V, 24V and 48V.

 

[talltony]

I would use the LE-v50 Vertical Axis Wind Turbine,

That's a very expensive trickle charger with such a low output that I can't see it making much difference in this case.

Tony

 

[Ozarker]

On a yacht a wind gen makes since, especially with sails that can direct some wash. You're on flat wide open areas. You'll be very limited ashore on a vehicle unless you're in wide open spaces or hill tops. A turbine is not going to be efficient 12 feet off the ground in most places. Maybe if you have that vertical 17" thing running going down the road at 50 mph you'll get some juice, be rather odd looking. I just wouldn't consider a turbine and a 30 foot boom and trying to park for the efficiency required. Solar and a gen set I'd say.

 

[LukeH]

And who wants to park in a windy spot all the time?

 

[LukeH]

A friend had one on his truck for about a year. He grew to hate it and eventually gave it away to a sailor.
The constant thrumming transmits horribly because the body acts as a resonance box. The setup and storage was tedious too.

 

[Gentleman]

Thank you people for advice and pointers!

Ianc: Efoy was new solution for me. Very interesting device yet seems too tricky for practical life..
My reasons / short analysis below:
efoy is not up to the task of sole generator of vehicle (small power output; uses separate fuel- fuel storage). Combining two generators (disel & efoy) would be (?) bit tricky.
They state STARTING temperature is +5C <> +40C ; STORAGE temperature +1C <> +45C .. These conflict with my desire for ability to cope with winter (-22C night temp expected) usage.
drawbacks seem to out weight the benefits of 'silent night'

Disel generator 0.23 - 0.40 kWh/L
efoy 1.0 kWh/L
rough estimate (IF I got this right) 3kWh/night (high estimate) >> 7.5L (or more) disel or 3L methanol per night.. yikes!!!

The fuel consumption dose demand consideration.. (= bigger fuel tanks)
Additional (solar and wind) power is desired (to reduce the fuel consumption)
I do have to double check the disel generator starting,operating and storage temperature specs.

biggoolies: Yes, the humidifier is the culprit for power drain and it is optional device. I have used the device without humidifier only when I first got it (horrible) and few times with lower humidity setting (3 on 1-6 scale, 5 or 6 is standard for me) very uncomfortable. Based on these.. IF possible I will strive to enable the usage of humidifier with cpap.

AeroNautiCal: vertical axis turbine offers a more 'compact' rotor design.. down sides are the weight; power output and start speed.
There are few 'collapsible' horisontal axis wind turbine designs in the internet.. I have not heard of models that are 'in production'

Ozarker: Getting the turbine safely high enough is a big issue. I feel that turbine must be tucked away while driving.

LukeH: Did you friend have Horisonta or vertical axis turbine? I would guess Vertical axis turbine would generate more vibrations (?). Can you give rough estimate what kind of time the setup and storage took? I had not consider the vibrations traveling through the box.. hmm.. thank you for pointing this out.

For windturbine I have to figure out rough dimensions and how I will place the unit.
Power: 300w or more, 600w should be doable (hawt - horisontal axis wind turbine)
Wind speed: low startup and generally low to medium wind speeds ..
Tower: collapsible (DIY ? deploy height ~5m (~17 ft) )
Deploy time/ effort: 5 min ok, 10 min would be pushing it, moderate effort maximum.
blades: 2 or 3

2 blade downwind hawt would seem best configuration -- quick google did not yield any such products in 300w <> 2kw range.

I feel that collapsible tower is required (both horisontal and vertical axis wind turbines) so that turbine get wind while parked and that turbine dose not cause drag/ hazard while driving.

One thing I still struggle with... How to stop the blades of hawt turning? (so that it can be tucked away for traveling)

 

[Gentleman]

Regarding 'proper camper' project.. I think the minimum total heigh would be just under 3,5m for popup top camper with 2m interior clearance. I am certain that more height would add up more trouble.. do you people have experiences and what would you recommend? More travel height would mean more options in design and more head room in 2nd floor sleeping area.

Low bridges, ferrys and some gas stations etc. will start giving trouble at some point? What trouble am I missing from my list? what would you rate as critical point?

How important would you say is the access from camper box to the cabin? Building a hatch or tube would add to the complexity.. on the other hand on my limited use of campers the access did make life easier. What are your feelings of this?

With kind regards, Janne

 

[Gentleman]

aluminium or stainless steel fridge?

I am about to order a fridge. (usable for both Dacia and proper camper projects)

I am sitting on fence regarding surface material. Options are:
ALUMINIUM and STAINELSS STEAL
28.5kg versus 33.2kg - so steal is ~5kg more (~17% more)

At the moment I think I will opt for stainless steel. I imagine the tougher material will give a lot better lifespan as the shell can take the minor hits and bumps that are guranteed when the unit is moved from car to house (while not traveling). I do not think the 5kg would make huge difference in the number of bumps inflicted on the fridge (lighter item is easier to move).

The unit will be living within the car so limited exposure to elements.

Can anyone share experience on this dilemma?

My plan is to put a leisure battery (perhaps two) for the fridge. Manufacture states ~50Ah drain per day - I am confident on this figure. I am thinking on agm or gel deep cycle battery (can be deployed on passenger area) that has 130Ah+. That should allow once per day recharge cycle. For recharging I am planning to use a small generator (700w <> 1500w) that outputs 220V AC and 12v DC. (do I need to double check that the unit can be used to charge 12V batteries or is that option given fact?).

With kind regards, Janne

PS do you feel that I should put info regarding my dacia project on different thread? (as it is only trial stage for proper camper)

 

[Iain_U1250]

Hi Janne - can you post more info on the fridge you are planning on using. The 50AH seems high. I have two "normal" chest type fridges made by a little Australian company called Bushman - one configured for 35l as a freezer, and one 62L or so as a fridge. Current draw is around 16AH per day. I used the 62L one in my Land Rover when camping and have had it running at -5deg for two days in 30 deg outside temps off a single 75AH battery.

 

[Gentleman]

Fridge is national luna fridge/freezer
Actual stated power consuption is 35Ah/day *blush* I rounded it up quite a bit for extra saftymargin for battery. (and I estimated that less efficient model would be ~50Ah/day - info on its powerdrain was not as clearly stated) ... apologies for poor wording

I really like the idea of fridge and freezer in a single unit. I would have taken the 10(freezer)+40 weekender unit from same company but that unit has thinner walls (= less efficient) . Separate units would

Actually there is ~400&#8364; difference betwee aluminium and steel on uk retail site :Wow1: on other model the difference is ~100&#8364;-150&#8364; .. I fear I will take the aluminium due to price.


*** details on fridge/freezer ***

http://www.nationalluna.com/NLR90.htm

Actual volume 50 litres (right bin) , 40 litres (left bin)
External dimensions 495mm (w) x 835mm (l) x 535mm (h) 980mm with lid raised
Weight Aluminium - 28.5kg , Stainless Steel - 33.2kg

Material
Rigidised stainless steel or Structured aluminium exterior, smooth aluminium interior.
Baskets 5 x baskets standard with stainless steel models
Power supply 12 / 24V DC, 100 - 240V AC

Power consumption *
12V - 2.5Amps average running current.
35 amphours / day average power draw.

Average power draw is measured with a typical fridge-freezer temperature setting in an ambient temperature of 32 degrees at low-speed. Actual power consumptions may vary considerably with ambient temperature, thermostat settings and frequency of use. Power consumption will increase during periods of surplus available power (Turbo mode)

 

[AeroNautiCal]

Marlec make wind generators for motorhomes, and supply extension mounts for when the vehicle is parked, website link, here.

With our mounting kits your wind generator can be up and running within minutes.

Mounting Kit's webpage, here.

Yachting Monthly – Watts in the Wind – Marlec does it again !


Yachting Monthly’s latest gear test on wind generators recommends both the Rutland 913 and 504 for use on board. Their Watts in the Wind test trialled 16 small, medium & large turbines and the 2 Rutland models entered each won their category. Once again the Rutland is found to deliver excellent value for money.

Yachting Monthly (Magazine) Report, here.

 

[Gentleman]

generating Amps to charge leisure battery

What I intended to do

Generator <> battery <> fridge

Assuming that the fridge consumes 35Ah day
Generator generates 5A at 12V DC

Which would give 7 hrs of running generator per day. (at least.. to best of my understanding, if battery is almost full it will take more time to charge)
That is bit of a pickle..

Alternatives:
bigger generator and charger (220V AC) that can handle high Amps. Running at Higher voltage will reduce charging time. More items to travel with and those items are expensive.

Connect leisure battery to car alternator. Alternator runs on 14.x V DC and output Amps are in two digits for my car.. I guess the standard is 20 - 40 Amps range.. this is still good. Drawback is the need to fiddle with car..

Solar panel (or wind) to generate power to charge battery.. might be too bulky in volume ..

I guess I will fall back to connecting leisure battery to alternator is the front runner at the moment..