4runner - buying advice needed

[p nut]

I know this is a Toyota section, and you seem more interested in the 4runner than anything else based on your rankings, but I've got to say that MPG-wise the 4runner is nowhere near what the outback 3.6R and other crossovers offer.

Govt ratings show there is a big difference: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=36859&id=36435

The best mpg I've ever gotten with my 4runner is 23mpg; that was all highway, going 60mph, no head wind and no hills. The norm for the 4runner on highways and rural roads with speeds over 65mph is 21-22mpg. Mixed Driving is 19mpg. City is normally 17-18mpg. You throw in any sort of weight, hills, stop-and-go, cold weather and the mpg goes down from there...for frame of reference I was regularly getting 15-16mpg in city driving during this past winter. This engine/transmission combo just isn't known for its fuel economy.

I'm not trying to talk you out of the 4runner; it's a great, reliable vehicle. But if your top priority is mpg, you're picking the wrong one. Also if you think the outback's rear end is "floaty" on the highway, you're going to be in for a rude awakening with the 4runner's suspension. It drives like a truck and has body roll; certain options like KDSS might mitigate that, but its still a Body on Frame truck and will drive as such.

And you don't need to get a premium trim for the sunroof. While they are not standard, they do come on most vehicles, regardless if its a premium version or not.

In all honesty, a crossover, like the outback or pilot, will likely work for you just fine. You should have no problems going down forest service roads and even getting through some technical terrain, if you drive carefully. If you were planning on tackling hard trails and remote areas for vehicle exploration and/or remote access, I would wholeheartedly recommend the 4runner...but it does seem like an overkill for your intended use and will definitely be a step down in terms of mpg.

Good comment. Crossover is definitely the best play here. Our Outback gets 34MPG highway. In-law's MDX gets close to 30.

By the way, I own a new F150 2.7L. Great truck. Again, overkill for what you're looking for.

 

[eaglecrest]

I know this is a Toyota section, and you seem more interested in the 4runner than anything else based on your rankings, but I've got to say that MPG-wise the 4runner is nowhere near what the outback 3.6R and other crossovers offer.

Govt ratings show there is a big difference: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=36859&id=36435

The best mpg I've ever gotten with my 4runner is 23mpg; that was all highway, going 60mph, no head wind and no hills. The norm for the 4runner on highways and rural roads with speeds over 65mph is 21-22mpg. Mixed Driving is 19mpg. City is normally 17-18mpg. You throw in any sort of weight, hills, stop-and-go, cold weather and the mpg goes down from there...for frame of reference I was regularly getting 15-16mpg in city driving during this past winter. This engine/transmission combo just isn't known for its fuel economy.

I'm not trying to talk you out of the 4runner; it's a great, reliable vehicle. But if your top priority is mpg, you're picking the wrong one. Also if you think the outback's rear end is "floaty" on the highway, you're going to be in for a rude awakening with the 4runner's suspension. It drives like a truck and has body roll; certain options like KDSS might mitigate that, but its still a Body on Frame truck and will drive as such.

And you don't need to get a premium trim for the sunroof. While they are not standard, they do come on most vehicles, regardless if its a premium version or not.

In all honesty, a crossover, like the outback or pilot, will likely work for you just fine. You should have no problems going down forest service roads and even getting through some technical terrain, if you drive carefully. If you were planning on tackling hard trails and remote areas for vehicle exploration and/or remote access, I would wholeheartedly recommend the 4runner...but it does seem like an overkill for your intended use and will definitely be a step down in terms of mpg.

Thank you, Dalko43!!

I just let my mind to settle down, stepped out and saw me from outside...it appears that im hooked on to 4runner looks and trying to convince my rational thoughts to play along. I'm taking a step back and going by your advice. Will test drive an outback 3.6R first.
We are heading to the sawtooth ID next week and will inquire if they have an outback at the rental facility. If not, ill head to the nearest dealer after we return back to TX. Haze will hopefully clear then and aides me in taking the right decision.

Thanks again to all you guys for taking the time to respond!!

 

[Dalko43]

Based on the off-roading use you've described, just about any vehicle with moderate clearance will do the trick. Heck, I've taken my old BMW 335i coupe on some FSR roads that only saw lifted F350s and had no problems. My last car was an AWD '06 Mercedes ML350 and it was a tank off road - did everything I ever wanted, and then some. I now drive a '16 Tacoma 4x4 and will confirm what an earlier poster has said - getting used to manually engaging the transfer case for 4x4 after owning an AWD vehicle is a pain that I'd rather not have.

It sounds like daily comforts will take precedence over off-road ability, so with that in mind I'd say forget the 4Runner (and I love 4Runners). From your last list I'd go with the MDX or CX9. You will get way more bang for your buck in daily driving, features & comforts.

I have a manual shifter for my 4wd as well (2011 4runner) and quite honestly I don't find it to be a pain at all, with a few exceptions on pavement. Also, the traditional, part-time 4wd of the 4runner and Tacoma (generally speaking they don't have a center diff) is much more suited to rough roads and difficult terrain than a AWD vehicle ever will be. Yes, yes, I've heard the arguments and seen first-hand the AWD crossover or even RWD sedans/coupes going places that you'd only expect a 4wd SUV or pickup to go. With the right technique, you can get very far with almost any vehicle.

I don't think one vehicle type is better than the other. I think they each have their own inherent strengths and weaknesses; and its incumbent on a carbuyer to determine which of these strengths/weaknesses are most relevant to his/her intended uses.

An AWD crossover or sedan is usually much more fuel efficient, more practical (no need to switch between 4wd an Rwd), usually smaller and easier to handle, still capable of getting down most forest roads and can handle mild terrain/obstacles. However, AWD setups, and the electronic controls (which usually rely on brakes to control wheel slippage) can more easily be overwhelmed in more difficult terrain or traction scenarios, usually have lower clearance (relative to trucks and SUV's not cars), usually don't have the same suspension flex nor the robustness/strength inherent to a body on frame (BOF) design.

A 4wd SUV or pickup, usually has BOF design (which is generally preferred for towing and offroad use), higher ground clearance, usually a traditional, part-time 4wd (though some have full-time 4wd w/ locking center diff), a transfer case with High and Low gearing, locking rear diff, better towing capabilities. All of this makes these 4wd rigs better at going that extra mile when it comes to offroading or exploring the backcountry. The tradeoffs are: worse fuel economy, truck-like handling (especially around corners, stop-and-go, on the highway), bigger footprint.

Obviously these are generalities to which there are exceptions. But my point stands that every buyer has to weigh the pro's/con's and determine which rig aligns with their priorities. Could I take a Subaru outback on extended trips through Colorado, Nevada and Utah's backcountry road system? Yes, but a 4runner or Jeep would be more optimal for such uses. Could I use a lifted F-150 to daily drive and make occasional trips down a forest service road for camping/hiking? Yes, but it would be an overkill and a Toyota or Subaru crossover would make more sense for that application.

 

[JLee]

It would not be new (and mpg is not stellar), but you may want to consider the Lexus GX470 as well. You can find them for ~$8-20k depending on year and mileage. Full time AWD (with proper 4x4 too), downhill assist control, ATRAC, 8 passenger seating, nice interior, ridiculously nice ride, superb on-road manners if you find one with KDSS, and quite competent offroad.

 

[Sleeter]

Traded in our 2.5 outback for a 2016 trail premium with KDSS. I have never looked back, best vehical I have ever owned hands down. Check out t4r.org for more info.

 

[94toy22re]

The outback with the 3.6 only gets marginaly better mpg then a 4Runner and as soon as you add all terrain tires to the outback difference becomes even less, I wouldn't let 4mpg difference sway my discionion purchase on a 40k purchase.

 

[p nut]

The outback with the 3.6 only gets marginaly better mpg then a 4Runner and as soon as you add all terrain tires to the outback difference becomes even less, I wouldn't let 4mpg difference sway my discionion purchase on a 40k purchase.

3.6L Outback gets 27 hwy. 4Runner (4wd) gets 21. That's close to a 30% difference. Not marginal, in my opinion. AT tires on the Outback will take the MPG down, but same on the 4Runner. Mine took a 1-2MPG hit once I went LT (from the stock P-rated tires). 6 MPG may not be a big factor now, but once gas prices go back up, it will be.

 

[eaglecrest]

Thanks for all your inputs. I have been watching this and other theirs at piloteers org in order to make a wise financial decision.

2016 pilot - AT issues, poor radio, more than a few paint job issues on the hood - for the $40+k i expect a better fit and quality. Being the first model year, im not inclined to buy it - may be 2017
Forester is off the list..
Outback 3.6R - dealer wont budge on the price.
Leaving me with 4runner SR5 premium with 7 seats.

Just when i thought i narrowed down on the choice, im getting an irresistible offer on 2016 Acura MDX (SH-AWD - 45K on road with no additional packages)
I hate to spend additional 5k over the budget + premium gas factor

Any thoughts ??

Gosh, why is there so much drift in the mind

 

[Dalko43]

Thanks for all your inputs. I have been watching this and other theirs at piloteers org in order to make a wise financial decision.

2016 pilot - AT issues, poor radio, more than a few paint job issues on the hood - for the $40+k i expect a better fit and quality. Being the first model year, im not inclined to buy it - may be 2017
Forester is off the list..
Outback 3.6R - dealer wont budge on the price.
Leaving me with 4runner SR5 premium with 7 seats.

Just when i thought i narrowed down on the choice, im getting an irresistible offer on 2016 Acura MDX (SH-AWD - 45K on road with no additional packages)
I hate to spend additional 5k over the budget + premium gas factor

Any thoughts ??

Gosh, why is there so much drift in the mind

What is the dealer trying to sell the outback to you for? And what was the asking price for the 4runner?

FYI, you're not going to get much negotiating leeway for either vehicle due to buyer demand.

 

[p nut]

Thanks for all your inputs. I have been watching this and other theirs at piloteers org in order to make a wise financial decision.

2016 pilot - AT issues, poor radio, more than a few paint job issues on the hood - for the $40+k i expect a better fit and quality. Being the first model year, im not inclined to buy it - may be 2017
Forester is off the list..
Outback 3.6R - dealer wont budge on the price.
Leaving me with 4runner SR5 premium with 7 seats.

Just when i thought i narrowed down on the choice, im getting an irresistible offer on 2016 Acura MDX (SH-AWD - 45K on road with no additional packages)
I hate to spend additional 5k over the budget + premium gas factor

Any thoughts ??

Gosh, why is there so much drift in the mind

MDX is excellent. Made in Japan. Solid engine. Love the LED lights. All tech doo-dads and pretty comfortable. Don't worry about the premium gas. My folks and a sibling both have MDX's (parents actually have 2--2004 and 2015). All put regular gas with no issues (combined 450k miles on these vehicles). The 2004 has been in an accident that took out the right side, driven cross country several times, and driven on forest/dirt roads all of its life. The thing now has 250k miles and still being driven around. No issues to report. Transmission and engines have both been fine. Had to change the battery and spark plugs, but that's about it. They haven't even changed a single light bulb in it. Solid rigs.

 

[Ryanmb21]

Premium gas will pay for itself with better mpg. But, if you can't afford the recommended gas I'd get s cheaper car

 

[p nut]

Regular vs premium has hardly any effect in MPG. Maybe power, but not MPG. But even if that were true:

National average regular is $2.13. Premium is $2.64.

http://gasprices.aaa.com/

If the MDX gets 27MPG on the freeway on premium, you'd have to get below 22MPG on regular before you recoup benefits of the extra spent on premium gas.

 

[Ryanmb21]

Interesting, in CA the difference in gas is usually <10%

 

[eaglecrest]

tough negotiation with sales guy - 35200 + TTL ( tints, addons extra)

 

[eaglecrest]

Regular vs premium has hardly any effect in MPG. Maybe power, but not MPG. But even if that were true:

National average regular is $2.13. Premium is $2.64.

http://gasprices.aaa.com/

If the MDX gets 27MPG on the freeway on premium, you'd have to get below 22MPG on regular before you recoup benefits of the extra spent on premium gas.

which is the case with 4runner...i did the fuel economy calculator - 15000 avg a year and cost of reg vs premium gas today...Im not eager about the plush seats, luxury items which again is going to cost a little higher in the insurance premiums.