'95 SR frame swap! (aka, my Montero is SOOOO lucky I love him so much!)

[SoCalMonty]

Hey gang,

I'm creating this thread to share the trials and tribulations we've gone through replacing a complete frame in a '95 SR! Here's the Clif Notes version! I bought a '95 Montero SR with frame damage. Logistics were difficult trying to find a place to fix it, as I could only drive it a few miles and at low speeds due to the FR LCA being so out of whack...so pulling the damage out was proving to be difficult to line up. I got the idea to splice in a section of frame from another Montero, so I chopped the front half of frame out of a junked Montero, and had assistance lined up from a few experienced fabricators to splice it in - but because it was a "side project" this also became difficult. My last option was to go to the yard AGAIN, and this time pull a complete frame, so while it would be a lot of work, it would be a bolt-on affair with no welding...now comes swapping it into MY truck!

My idea was to support the engine/trans/xfer case, keeping them with the body...then disconnecting hoses and lines and pulling the frame out. More to come! :Wow1:

 

[SoCalMonty]

Ohhhh man, what a disappointing day. I spoke too soon. I need some advice from the Montero gurus!

Long story short...I've got the WRONG FRAME. I'm hoping I can make it work, as I'm out of money and just about out of time too (the lease on the garage that the Montero is in is up at the end of the month). Please have a look at my problems and let me know if you have suggestions for solutions! Unfortunately, buying a new rig is not an option!

The complete frame we pulled was from a 1993 SR (pictured above, silver). If I would have researched more, I may have put 2 and 2 together - but as it turns out, the 1993 SR frame is NOT THE SAME as the 1994-1996 SR frame. It seems that the early Gen 2's (1992-1993), including the SR trim level, are "transitional" model years...they aren't 100% Gen 2. Or, they are "early Gen 2" compared to "late Gen 2".

PROBLEM 1: The 1993 SR does not have the "OEM body lift" of the 1994-1996 SR's. The body mounts on the 1993 SR frame are 1" lower on compared to my 1995. The rubbers appear to be the same.

SOLUTION 1: Either install my 2" lift and accept the fact it will only be a 1" lift, which will be fine for now as I'm only on 31's...or, return the 2" kit and buy a 3" kit, which will effectively make a 2" lift when attached to the 1993 frame. Yes/no?

PROBLEM 2: The torsion bars on the 1993 SR are apparently Gen 1 torsion bars...they appear to be nearly 2" shorter than the t-bars on my 1995. While I don't actually have the 1993 bars, I measured both frames, from the trailing edge of the bracket where the LCA attaches (where the front of the t-bar would attach), to the center of the torsion bar adjuster on the crossmember. It appears the crossmember itself is welded in a different location compared to my 1995 frame, which accounts for the shorter torsion bar on the 1993 compared to the 1994-1996.

SOLUTION 2: Find someone parting out a Gen1 and run Gen1 t-bars with all my other 1995 Gen2 parts up front. From what I found, it seems people bolt the later control arms on to the earlier cars - so couldn't I do the inverse and bolt the earlier t-bars on to the 1993 frame? What else would I need to do this?

PROBLEM 3: Different engine = different exhaust hangers. Thankfully, the engine mount bosses on the frame measure out to be the same!

SOLUTION 3: Cut off the old hangers and have my muffler guy tack them on to the 1993 frame after it's together. Seems like the simplest issue I have...not really worried here.







So...there you have it guys. I'm in too deep, but I have to exhaust every option to complete this project. Will my crackpot ideas work? Or am I SOL? Let me know if you can help me with answers. Also, if you have t-bars to fit a 1993 frame, I could use them. lol. Thanks in advance!

 

[SoCalMonty]

UPDATE 2/27:

Alright...the frame is technically attached to the body, but not completely. I had a couple issues.

One issue was that not all of the body mount bushings (the rubber disc with the metal washer on top, which sits between the frame's bracket and the body of the truck) were in good shape. A couple of them got tweaked from the hit, so that the metal washer embedded in the top of the donut was not perfectly flat. This was making it hard for the standard length hardware to reach past everything and grab the nut.

Another issue was that after we had 4 mounts attached (the rear most mounts at the tail lights, left and right; and the second pair from the front, left and right), we noticed as we went to secure #5 that they weren't lined up perfectly. So something is tweaked a bit, and I'm going to have to live with it for now. It's not that bad, but again, the standard length hardware made this part hard, so this is where we stopped the other day.

SUMMARY:
- Frame is attached to body at 4 points
- Standard hardware is a PITA; extra length would make life easier
- My GF is the best woman on the planet, and she ordered me upgraded T-bars and rear coils from Camel 4x4 (who, by the way, had excellent service over the phone so far).
- My appx lift (as advertised by vendors) will be 2.6" between the T-bars, rear coils, and body lift.
- I ordered new engine mounts as one of them got torn pretty badly (lifted the engine and still had this mount attached on accident)
- I've only got the T-bar anchors from my '95 frame with the longer bars; I am hoping these anchors work with the shorter bars I will be installing.
- One of my front axle brackets (right side) looks to be slightly bent, but I cannot take the time to fix it right now...I'm hoping the bushing soaks it up enough to get it aligned, and I'll have to worry about it later.
- The front two body mounts (in front of the radiator) on the body side are tweaked too far to line up; one is appx 1" out and the other is appx 1/2" out (body is pushed back relative to the mounts on the frame; pass side is pushed more than the driver). My brother works at a body shop and they said they can help me pull the front edge of the body into place so those front two mounts will line up. I will have to complete the truck and leave these unattached until I can get it down to that shop and have them pull the body a bit and line it up to the frame mounts.

My deadline to get the truck on its own wheels is March 15. I should be OK. It's slow progress...but it's progress nonetheless. Thanks for all of the tips and guidance along the way, I could not do this without you guys. :kewl:

 

[SoCalMonty]

After struggling with the standard length (5.5") body lift hardware, I went to a local fastener shop and picked up some Grade 8 threaded rod (all thread), and some all metal lock nuts. I'm going to cut them to 7" lengths, and then secure a metal locknut + red Loctite to one end, effectively making a "bolt." The extra 1.5" should allow me to let the frame "hang loose" from 4 corners while I drop the other "bolts" in through their mounts. I just needed a little more fudge room since things weren't lining up 100%.

Also received the motor mounts (only like $14 each) and fuel filter. Just waiting on the T-bars and coils to get here, but I will have plenty else to work on if they don't show up tomorrow - I don't think I'd get around to the T-bars, but I could probably use the springs this weekend.

Plans at this point...

1/1-1/3:
This weekend I will finish securing the frame, and install the rear axle. I will also take apart the old front end (the front suspension is still bolted on to the old frame which is sitting next to the truck) and line things up to get that stuff installed next week. I will also chop what's left of the frame up (it's already cut in half) so it can be taken to a metal scrapper.

1/9-1/10:
Install front suspension, install fuel tank. Any extra time will be spent making sure the truck is ready to be towed; I am planning to tow it to my house once it's on all fours and finishing the last pieces of work in my driveway.

1/16-1/17:
Reconnect remaining lines and hoses. Secure lines to frame. Finish any odds and ends required to make the car run and drive; go for a smog check and hopefully pass; receive actual registration stickers!!!

 

[SoCalMonty]

UPDATE: 3/3/13:

We're in a really good spot now, and it looks like the truck will be complete by next weekend! Not necessarily running/driving, but at least completely assembled.

The frame is installed and torqued down (save for the 2 in the front, which I have to wait on until I can pull the body out). The rear axle is mostly installed, but we left the shocks and panhard par loose because I'm waiting for the Camel4x4 rear coils to get here. Fuel tank is installed and hooked up.

Here's what's left:
- Disassemble front suspension and axle from what's left of the old frame, and install on to my truck. This scares me a bit, as I don't know too much about how things go together or come apart, and I want to minimize the "extra work" as much as I can.

- Reassemble the rear passenger parking brake, which I started taking apart like an idiot. I removed 3 of the springs that hold tension on the pads, the cam, and the adjuster. Hopefully it will go back together OK.

- Tighten all hard lines and bleed the brakes. I'll be looking up the proper procedure, as that junction block attached to the rear axle is an extra piece I'm not used to. I'm guessing I bleed the junction block first, and then the rear brakes?

Other than that...it's just some little stuff. But once the front end is put together and the suspension is on, I can move the truck out of the garage and from there there's really not much left to do.

All in all...we've really only been working on the truck for about 8 hours per weekend, for the last 4 weeks (about 32 hours of labor). It really wasn't difficult so far, it's just intimidating due to the scale of the work - and it's large, heavy parts that require a lot of space and a lot of muscle to heave around. A couple frame shops I called estimated as much as $2800 to swap the frame (25-30 hours of labor, at whatever their rate is). So we feel pretty good saving $2800. :lol:

Waiting on a new motor mount (the store sent the wrong one), and I need to order a lower rad hose and the transmission mount as the rubber is blown out. Getting' super close now though!

 

[SoCalMonty]

Old frame detached and getting ready to pull out (notice we cut it in half, and already pulled out the rear section):

View attachment 148820



Old frame out; getting ready to roll the new one under the truck:
View attachment 148821




Here's a pic of the damage to the front of the old frame. No, it didn't buff out. lol:
View attachment 148822



Here's the replacement frame installed (notice the bumper brackets and cross bar compared to the above picture):
View attachment 148823

 

[SoCalMonty]

Just when I thought I was in the clear, my luck gets factored in to the equation.

So...as it turns out...the engine mount bosses on the frame ARE different between the '93 SR (3.0) and the '95 SR (3.5). I didn't notice this until now - with the frame installed, and attempting to bolt up the engine mounts.

The '93 frame bosses are taller and welded about 2" further back on the frame...



In comparison, the '95 frame bosses are shorter and welded about 2" further forward on the frame...



I was all set to install the front end when I ran into this, and it put everything on hold - which is a huge problem, as I needed the truck out of the garage this weekend. Now, I've got to scour Craigslist for a mobile welder to have someone come by, torch 4 of the engine mount bosses off (2 from the '93, and my old 2 from the '95), and weld the 2 from the '95 back on to my current frame.



Other than that...the rear end is put together with the new Ironman springs (p/n Mits 020B, 1.6" lift to match the 1.6"-lift uprated torsion bars) procured from Camel 4x4. The torsion bars also appear to be correct length/diameter so that's good news at least...



But in order to leave room for welding, I can't put on the front axle or suspension yet. :angry:

 

[SoCalMonty]

UPDATE: Sat 3/9/13

We ended up using my trusty Harbor Freight Sawzall and old Makita angle grinder. We cut the brackets out of the old, bent '95 frame, and then cut the brackets out of the current '93 frame. I have a mobile welder (highway robber?!) coming at 9am tomorrow to weld the '95 brackets to the frame...it should take about 45 minutes. It's all ready to weld. We lost a full day because of the mishap, but at least I was able to get it taken care of in a timely fashion.

I'm still planning to have it towed out of the garage tomorrow. We buttoned up a few other little things today - we attached the hard lines that were still loose at the back of the truck, and disassembled/reassembled the e-brake on the rear right corner (something was wrong and it was binding, so we actually removed the e-brake shoes and re-set everything). Then...DRUM ROLL...we put the rear tires back on, and lowered the back of the truck and set it on its wheels! :kewl: :cheers: :kewl: :cheers:

So tomorrow...after the welder finishes...I'm gonna spray a quick coat of paint over the welds and then put the front axle and suspension in. After that, it's just a few little things and the truck is ready to be towed to my house! :kewl:

Oh, with these lift springs in the back...the truck is too tall to fit out of the garage now. LOL! We're gonna have to air down to like 8psi, pull the truck out, then fire up the compressor and air the tires back up!

 

[SoCalMonty]

Truck is 95% complete, towed it to my house today. Still have some loose ends to button up, and then get the bodywork done on the front right...but all the big stuff is done. WOW...what a way to get to know your truck! LOL!

 

[shov3lbum]

I admire your hard work and perseverance, I have had many adventures like this myself, when it came down to it, things just couldn't go right and around every corner there was another problem to be solved. So this all started back in January?

 

[jlocster]

Incredible man! Can't wait to see the finished product.

 

[ca18_sean]

Wow, that's a lot of work! Definitely a great way to get to know your truck!

 

[SoCalMonty]

Incredible man! Can't wait to see the finished product.

Well, it's nothing too special to look at...but here he is safe and sound at home!

 

[ZapMontero]

Wow looks like mine

 

[SoCalMonty]

Wow looks like mine

Best color combo ever!

Here's the picture of what it looked like when I bought it - you can see why I didn't think the frame was too far gone. On the outside, it really didn't look that bad. But the frame was a goner!