'97 12 valve, Dana 60/80: Let's Talk Lockers

[GJStringert]

Howdy folks!

So I'm pretty well stumped here. I'm in need of some kind of traction aid for my truck (desperately, this thing is pathetic if a tire is on ice. Sometimes both curbside tires will spin for a bit if the gutter is frozen and I'm trying to get going!). Then again, it's summer and ice is now a non-issue...

So I kept telling myself, as this is my never ending build, that I would do ARBs front and rear and just enjoy ultimate "selectability" and traction, but the more I think about it, the more I think the idea of a front locker is a little ridiculous for a truck that has that huge Cummins block holding the front pinned down all the time (I always lift a rear tire when it flexes, but I've never lifted a front). Further, let's be totally honest: this thing weighs like 4 tons, am I REALLY going to take it into a place that requires front AND rear lockers??

Now I have experience with a selectable locker (an Eaton e-locker in my old Titan), and a "limited slip" ( a true-trac, also in the titan after I blew up the spider gears in the eaton haha!). I ended up really liking the true-trac for on-road manners, ESPECIALLY in the ice (sounds contradicting, most people hate them in the ice, but this thing was AMAZING in the snow in 2 wheel drive). That said, it was really hard on tires in the turns under power, especially with a trailer attached. Also, with a true-trac, if a tire IS lifted, they turn almost useless (they're not really a true locker, just a limited slip on steroids). That's where I like the selectable... should I get a Detroit LOCKER, not true trac, and buy tires twice as often? Are they even that bad on tires??

Guys, I'm SERIOUSLY stumped... So I'll ask that you give me any and all input for a trail-going 3/4 ton with a 1 ton driveline, that is also my daily driver and work truck, that I prefer to keep pretty mechanically simple (also why I kind of like the true-trac/Detroit locker, no air lines or electrical stuff to get messed up).

Give me anything you've got!

Graham

 

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[ZEVRO]

Hey Graham,

You may have just opened a can of worm with your question. The opinions you will get will run as long as a country mile. It all boils down as to how you will use the truck. Another factor is your skill in off road driving. I have seen guys with basically a stock truck go as many places as with a locked up rig simply because of driving skill.
Anyway we have a 1998 12 valve 5 speed Ram 2500. For us we have built ours to go around the world for our upcoming overland trip. So we employed the K.I.S.S. method. The set up we will have is a Yukon Grizzly locker in the front with a Yukon Free Spin kit and 35 spline front axles. The rear will sport a Detroit Truetrac with 4:10 gears front and rear. The truck also has a 3" lift and will be running on Interco TRXUS 37x12.50`s. on military 24 bolt wheels. Not to take away from ARB, it`s perhaps the ultimate system if you`re seeing a lot of off road usage.
Like you I wanted something simple and didn`t want to have to worry about compressors and air lines to run my locker. It`s true I will have a compressor on board for running tools and airing up tires. But I didn`t want to have to worry about it supporting the lockers. I just want to lock the front hubs and go. So I guess when everything gets installed we`ll see how things perform over time.

 

[GJStringert]

Appreciate the responses guys. I knew I would probably open a very large can of worms, but I needed some input from other fullsize guys (all my buddies are Jeep and Toyota guys, and ALL of them are locked front and rear. I just don't know if that's practical for this big truck, it can't fit all the places they go! It's like 24' long!). I would consider my driving skills "pretty good", but man did I like having the security of a locker in my old truck. Sometimes it's just great to know "If I can get just 2 tires on something solid, I'll go SOMEWHERE...".

Can anyone give me input on True-Trac vs "Full" Detroit Locker on the street? That True Trac was amazing but it tended to chirp tires (or REALLY want to push the truck straight) in the turns if my foot was in it. The Detroit locker is a true auto locker (if what I've read is correct), which leads me to assume, then, that it would just annihilate tires on the pavement.

 

[charlieaarons]

I had Detroits in my 88 F350 CC and my BJ40 Landcruiser. They did NOT "annihilate tires" and were easy to adapt to. I like them a lot and would actually rather have an autolocker in the rear of my U500 than the selectable locker it has now.

Charlie

 

[Heavy44TRT]

For me, it is ARBs.

I have been following your build. You started off with a great truck and keep making it better. I have a 1996 Dodge 2500, basically the same truck as you. I went with ARBs front and rear. I originally wanted a Detroit locker in the rear and a Tru Trac in the front. I wanted simple and bullet proof. I live in Southern Utah and spend a lot of time in the mountains in the winter. I was worried about running the Detroit locker on the snowy and icy mountain roads. I like the idea about the Clutchless tru trac, but since I was going with ARB in the rear, I decided to go all the way. I figured that I am going to keep this truck forever so I saved up and got ARBs and 4.10 in both diffs. I have locked the rear ARB on snowy off camber roads to simulate the Detroit. The rear end slid around a lot.
I like the ability to turn them on and off. I believe this is the best of both worlds.


I hope this rambling helps.

Keep up the great work.

 

[GJStringert]

Hmm, now I'm back to bouncing back and forth between Detroits and ARBs... I'll tell you where I'm most hung up with ARBs, right now: If I were to do ARBs, I would most likely go front and rear, like Heavy44TRT did, "If you're doing it, do it right", which to me means why not just do the front too haha! My problem is I'd be inclined to also run an ARB compressor to keep the air system for the lockers seperate from my on board air I already have, and here's why: if I'm understanding this correctly, the ARBs require a constant pressure to stay engaged (not just a quick "burst" of pressure), and truth be told, although I've tried my best, my on board air system is not COMPLETELY leak proof, at this time. Further, I rarely keep my air tank filled unless I know I'm going off road and can fill it while I'm driving to the trailhead, and if I'm in a situation where I need to lock in really quick (like an impromptu recovery or bombing across the median when there's a wreck and I don't feel like waiting in traffic on the highway!), I don't have time to charge the tank, THEN lock the lockers. So in conclusion, I think I'd be best off installing ARB's compressor as well as my existing OBA system, to keep everything "compatable". Am I thinking about this correctly?

So that said, my next concern is what doing ARBs front and rear, AND their compressor and switch/manifold system would cost. If I remember correctly the lockers themselves are around $1200 a piece (but they come with the air line and valve/solenoid), and the cheapest ARB compressor is only around $170, so adding that to the cost of the lockers, and the cost of the install, maybe it is just easier to get another compressor and keep the locker system seperate. Hmm... (scratching goatee like a perplexed indevidual...). Maybe I'll get a kilby on the serpantine and have THREE compressors! (that's probably my post-coffee morning goofiness talking...)

Ok final thought on the ARBs: do they work alright in cold weather?

Thanks a lot for the replies guys, I really appreciate the advice/input. Heavy44TRT, if your sig is up to date you have me beat by 3K miles. I'll catch up soon enough!

 

[ZEVRO]

ARB`s do require constant air pressure to keep them locked up. However if something does happen to the compressor or locker, the lockers are designed to default to the open position. For freezing temperatures you would really have to be diligent in draining of condensation in your air tank and lines. I would think if condensation got into the locker or air line it could freeze and cause a blockage. I only say this because when I was in the Military during operation Brim Frost we had a truck with frozen air lines because of not draining air tanks. Don`t get wrong ARB`s are an awesome product but it also requires other equipment to make it all work and additional maintenance to keep it working properly. The more systems you have that are dependent on other systems to function, the lesser your reliability. With automatic lockers you don`t even have to think about it other than your normal maintenance on your differentials. There are trade-offs no matter which way you decided. You just have to pick the lesser of the two weevils. (Quote from Master and Commander)

 

[Heavy44TRT]

I have had the ARBs for 3 years now. I have not had any problems with cold temperatures. You turn on the compressor, then turn on the lockers. There is no large tank to store the air. When you turn off the locker, the air is released at the compressor. I do not know the complete inner workings of the compressor, but is since the air is released right away, I do not think there is time for condensation to happen. I have had a few leaks in the air line, but it was an easy fix. Even if you have a leak, the locker will still work. The compressor will just run more. Also, I can hear the compressor kick on, so if I have an air leak, I can hear the compressor kick on more often than normal. Then I just fix the leak. If I had the system connected to a separate on board air tank, I would not know if I had an air leak. I do not have on board air yet, but even if I did, I would have the separate ARB compressor. It is instant and made to work together. Be sure and get an air line repair kit just in case.
I need to update my sig, I am up to 178,000 miles now. It just keeps running and running.