A long term project - Planning Begins

[sAsLEX]

Hello all,

New to the forum and thought I would say why I joined - to gather information, steal ideas, and improve on a very rough idea I have for a future Expedition vehicle.

I plan on using a crew cab Unimog to explore all NZ has to offer. I plan on building a body that can lift on and off, so I can start the body before I find the vehicle and spend the next few years getting that right. I know this will restrict some of the efficiency of building with the vehicle, and holds some risk! However it means I can start this project sooner, and then utilize it possibly across a number of platforms until I get the truck I want!

I have based the design below off a few I have seen, off experiences borrowing the old man's various camper-vans (Transit and Iveco chassis) , and a bit of fiddling about in CAD. I have the book 'Motorhome self-build and optimisation ' ordered and await the post amid this covid time!

The body will likely use a steel frame on container twist locks, with composite panels for the walls. I understand the issues with cold bridging a steel frame brings, but think I can work around this, and can then fabricate the steel frame at home.



The model above is by no means finished, it is based off the drawings I took off the Mercedes website for the vehicle dimensions, and was mainly to sort packaging issues and see if what I wanted would fit on the platform. Initially I went with the main bed over the dinette lifting into the ceiling during the day, but this significantly restricted storage, but the solution leads to a taller package! Currently is can sleep 4 easy enough, has space allocated for cassette toilet, shower, large fridge, dinette seating, diesel space heater, gas bottle (1x9kg), water heater (gas 240). large external access storage across the entire body, significant internal storage in overhead cupboards, a kitchen with sink and lpg burner/grill, 12v REDARC REDVision system, 2 large lead acid house batteries, a crawlthrough access behind a closet (not intended as primary access). I have got measurements of most things off the local RV parts suppliers websites, and have the current floorplan laid out in tape on the garage floor. Spare will sit on top of cabin in front of body.

My first questions to those that know NZ,
Is being 4.2m tall overly restrictive? I have seen other local vehicles at this height so do not see it as a major impedance.

For the frame I would ideally like to hot dip galv, however it is likely to be too large to fit in any baths, can anyone recommend an Auckland-ish company that can galv larger frames? I understand possibly double dipping may work?

Thanks for your time,

Alex

 

[Neil]

High Alex.

Looks like a great project.

With regard to the height, 4.2m is very tall,

I can only talk about travelling in general as I am yet to get to New Zealand

We are 3.5m and h have had a few issues. Friends we travel with sometimes are 3.7 and they have had a lot more issues and on it goes.

Plenty of bridges and tunells are 4m or less. 4.2m will require you to do some extra route planning for sure.

Also I think you will feel that height on most trucks in every day life. Manoeuvres such as exiting a roundabout and side winds create body roll and obviously the taller you are the more this is exaggerated

Which bit of your design required it to be so tall.

Good luck and keep the posts coming

Neil

 

[sAsLEX]

Which bit of your design required it to be so tall.

Neil

Hi Neil
I did a few more checks and total height is now a little under 4m (3928).

The box is 2236 high/deep at the rear, another 200 to fit the sleeping area, so any shorter and I would not fit...... I also needed a false floor to fit tanks as this will be a lift on/lift off box.

As I was planning on the crew cab the length of the tray is a big restriction, I had thought of a bed over the dinette like the blismobile do, however this removes a lot of storage.

 

[grizzlyj]

Looks good. As drawn looks lower than our U1700 was at 3.9m?
So aiming to be over 7500kg I would think? Maybe 9000kg+ even?
Where will your spare tyre(s) be?
Have you allowed for insulation in the floor of the cabover, air space under the bed springs there, decent mattress thickness, plus room for the cab to move as the Mog chassis flexes under the cab over?
Our cabover was uninsulated on the floor and despite froli springs, regular mattress lifting, airing and drying with a fan heater still got mould. Moisture will be under there from you and possibly condensation, how will you shift it out?
Since it will have to fit both the available chassis length of an approx 3950 wheelbase Mog, and the correct height between whatever height you mount the twistlocks and the roof of the cab plus clearance, you will have to compromise the deisgn either now or Mog time to fit every vehicle you might stick it under? Although there are some U1750L38 (something like that anyway!) Mogs in that neck of the woods, will there be one available when you want one? LWB HD Dokas are not that common. Staying below 7500kg will widen the choice but may not be possible, and if it is you will be fully laden 100% of the time. No spare socks.

 

[sAsLEX]

Looks good. As drawn looks lower than our U1700 was at 3.9m?
So aiming to be over 7500kg I would think? Maybe 9000kg+ even?
Where will your spare tyre(s) be?
Have you allowed for insulation in the floor of the cabover, air space under the bed springs there, decent mattress thickness, plus room for the cab to move as the Mog chassis flexes under the cab over?
Our cabover was uninsulated on the floor and despite froli springs, regular mattress lifting, airing and drying with a fan heater still got mould. Moisture will be under there from you and possibly condensation, how will you shift it out?
Since it will have to fit both the available chassis length of an approx 3950 wheelbase Mog, and the correct height between whatever height you mount the twistlocks and the roof of the cab plus clearance, you will have to compromise the deisgn either now or Mog time to fit every vehicle you might stick it under? Although there are some U1750L38 (something like that anyway!) Mogs in that neck of the woods, will there be one available when you want one? LWB HD Dokas are not that common. Staying below 7500kg will widen the choice but may not be possible, and if it is you will be fully laden 100% of the time. No spare socks.

A single spare will be mounted on top of the cab in front of the camper section. As this is intended for NZ mainly a single spare is sufficient in my mind as often wont be far from assistance.

Yes, whole box insulated, I have seen the moisture problems on other cab overs and have seen a few solutions that help.

Currently based the dimensions off this model https://www.mercedes-benz-trucks.co...echnical-data-u5023-double-cab-en-01-2018.pdf . The cab over portion may have to wait until the vehicle is identified and make do with a bed in the dinette initially.

 

[Neil]

Obviously the revised height is better, bit you will stll be at the top end of practical limits.

Everything we do with our trucks has a knock on effect.

It's about your design and what your requirements are.

There are plenty of well travelled trucks this tall and they do perfectly well.

The only issue I see is that you will have to spend more time planning your routes to avoid frustration, but this is a minor point against having the living space you need.

Good luck and post the build updates and ideas on here , its sound like a great project

Neil

 

[Sitec]

Hi Alex.

I'm thinking Neil is right... Height is an important factor.. My build is sat currently at 3.55m tall (50mm over the intended max), and it looks huge! A Mog with a shorter wheel base and a slightly narrower box would make a 4m height very tall and ungainly.. I'd think revisiting the idea of a platform above the seating area at the back that can be raised and lowered would be a good idea. That way the Luton pod at the front could be kept lower to match the rest of the roof line, but built right could have a lot of storage space... 4 long pull out draws that drop down to 45 deg when fully open for access perhaps...

Do you need the crew cab? If you do, then a separate pop top sleeping pod on the roof of the crewcab would work.... Access it through a roof hatch above the second row seats, and have a crawl thru from the pod.... It would also eliminate the movement issue between body and cab...

 

[saf5000]

Will follow your build with interest. I'm just starting the same process here in NZ too, albeit on something less adventurous than a unimog. Will put a styromax/vanglass style box on an Iveco Daily chassis cab.

How goes the search for composite panels? Im talking with composites group in Christchurch but im still tossing the idea of importing from Aus given their pricing and quality.

4.2m is pretty high, im from the Otago area and a lot of rail bridges are around 3.8- 3.2 if im remembering right. Theres always easy enough detours so I suppose its a convenience factor.

 

[Wyuna]

Having lived in NZ in the past, you won't have issues on the main roads, as NZ basically use trucks for most of their transport needs.

But you are going to have issues with overhanging trees as soon as you hit the coastal areas on smaller roads with low hanging branches at 4.2mtr

 

[grizzlyj]

I imagine you could look at a road atlas of NZ which will have bridge and obstruction heights and weight limits on?
Obviously, the higher, longer, heavier you are the fewer places you will fit.
You could ask on some sort of NZ based Land Cruiser/Rover forum for their opinion on which trails a Mog would fit but if they've never driven one they will most likely say don't be daft trying.
If you are set on a Mog and you need a Doka then it will be that big. If you can fit passenger seats in the camper the whole thing will shrink, and if you plan on mostly living outside it then inside can be much more compact, but otherwise I don't think worrying about 100mm here and there is worth too much thinking about, just minimise where you can.
Or get a Cruiser/Rover and a tent

 

[charlieaarons]

A cabover camper body will prevent tilting the cab to access the engine; more than a minor issue.
If you need a crewcab and also a big body to accommodate all those people you will be better off with a MAN or MB regular 4wd truck and a longer wheelbase to properly balance a long body.

 

[sAsLEX]

Hi Alex.
Do you need the crew cab? If you do, then a separate pop top sleeping pod on the roof of the crewcab would work.... Access it through a roof hatch above the second row seats, and have a crawl thru from the pod.... It would also eliminate the movement issue between body and cab...

That's a decent idea, could even just throw a roof top tent on initially.

However the concerns around height made me think I have mucked up somewhere...... so I compared my model against a couple of commercial outfits, and I clearly have my wheels positioned incorrectly in the quick mock up I made.

A cabover camper body will prevent tilting the cab to access the engine; more than a minor issue.
If you need a crewcab and also a big body to accommodate all those people you will be better off with a MAN or MB regular 4wd truck and a longer wheelbase to properly balance a long body.

Thanks for the advice, I have seen fixed cabovers, I am not sure how they deal with engine access.

I intend on the camper body being easily lifted on and off.

 

[Sitec]

Are you building on a Mog or something else? If you have a Mog, the engine is accessed via the front bonnet...

 

[charlieaarons]

Are you building on a Mog or something else? If you have a Mog, the engine is accessed via the front bonnet...

Depends on the Mog. On mine you need to tilt the cab to get at the filters, adjust the valves, work on the belts, compressor etc. How does one remove the camper in the middle of nowhere?

 

[sAsLEX]

Depends on the Mog. On mine you need to tilt the cab to get at the filters, adjust the valves, work on the belts, compressor etc. How does one remove the camper in the middle of nowhere?

With legs that raise and lower it. Drive truck out, drive truck in.

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