A Rover's tale of woe....

[Christophe Noel]

You didn't agree to the work, why should you pay for it? It is not what you hired them to do.

Thanks for that advice. I'm really just baffled that quality of service has been lowered to this level. If I ordered a $30 entre at a restaurant and it came to my table 3 hours later, I'd have a hard time paying for it, even if it was tasty as could be. There's a level of expectation with service that can't be quantified, but it sure is reasonable. It's bad enough this repair took two months to complete. Add to that the fact they drove my rig through a garage door, upped the bill, delayed my vacations and made this a terrible inconvenience I'm absolutely floored I'm being presented with ANY bill.

Is customer service dead or do we as customers expect too much?

 

[goodtimes]

Is customer service dead or do we as customers expect too much?

There are a number of issues. Some perceptual, others more tangible.

Customer service is not completely dead, but it is certainly ailing. With the way business has been going (trimming fat, etc), many businesses are cutting out dedicated CS people, making it "everyones" job. Rightfully so...it *is* everyone's job. The problem is, many businesses are piling this and other new responsibilities onto people without any sort of help. What used to be an 8 hour job, becomes a 10 or 12 hour job. The constant interruptions make it hard to do your "real" job at the quality level or efficiency level that is expected.

Honestly, it is frustrating to get deep into a problem only to have the phone ring and have to put the job on hold to answer the phone -- which turns out to be an automated sales call. About the time you get back into the job, the phone rings again. This goes on all day . . . when a real customer calls with a legit question/concern, the person answering the phone isn't in the best state of mind to deal with the customer because of all the BS calls they have had to answer. So, the perception from the outside is that customer service is dead. The perception from the inside is that "nothing gets done around here." The employee gets slammed from both ends.

The reality is, the business is understaffed, and people are struggling to keep their heads above water (relative to work load). This eventually breeds resentment, lower moral, and poor performance...which of course feeds the original problem.

On the other end, customers often don't understand the real costs associated with what they are getting. Prime example:

A couple months ago, I asked the owner of a BMW dealer here in Tucson how much he was going to charge me to mount and balance a pair of tires on my motorcycle (bike was in the shop for a recall inspection, and I had purchased the tires from them due to their competitive prices). The cost was unreal. Seriously...it was astounding. When he saw my face, he simply explained that all of his mechanics are high end guys, commanding top dollar for their labor (they all have the BMW certifications and years of experience to back it up). He would have to pay that top $$ mechanic their standard hourly rate to do the job that a junior (low $$) mechanic would normally do. So, his costs were considerably higher than his competition. He simply couldn't afford to pay his mechanics their wage to do low dollar work. If he charged what his competition does, he (the business) would lose money on every tire they mounted.

I couldn't argue with that.

 

[Christophe Noel]

Points well taken. I work in retail and see the decline of customer service regularly. KEEN footware are my new love-to-hates. The worst customer service in the industry. They have defined new lows in customer service standards.

 

[JeepN95YJ]

I think of customer service as a matter of decency and respect. As human beings we should all treat each other with a level of fairness. The whole "treat others as you expect to be treated" principle.

Just this week, on this board, I've seen several people make fun of a person's inexperience and confusion during the install of an aftermarket product. In fact, the company owner came on the board and further insulted the guy for his "ineptness".

My personal feelings on the matter were that the company owner and several board members were rude and inconsiderate and treated the inexperienced guy with incivility and disrespect. I could see no good reason to react in that manner. The company owner came back to the post later and stated he was <paraphrase> "Sorry he was so harsh initially but he will always call it like he saw it and didn't worry about all the politically correct BS".

I don't believe respect and courtesy are really Politically Correctness issues.

In your case, if I were the owner of that shop, I would give you the truck without charge and ask humbly if there were anything else I could do? "Could I change your oil for the next 12 months at my expense?"

I don't think that is going overboard. If you have been such a great customer and have been happy enough with you service in the past that you recommend the shop, then I don't think you would object to doing business in the future if they handle this properly. I would nearly guarantee that you would be considered a PREFERRED customer in the future. LOL. It would sure beat trying to find a NEW repair shop you could trust.

 

[Christophe Noel]

The end of a saga

I paid $500. It wasn't a fun conversation, but it was very polite, genuine and ultimately, I think two guys walked away with no hard feelings. I told the mechanic I was actually not expecting to have to pay my full bill. In particular the $400 labor charge didn't sit so well with me given my 57 day inconvenience.

I told him that I've always been extremely pleased with his work in the past and enjoyed being his customer, but would understand if he felt this $1000 was the last $1000 he wanted or expected out of me. He said he valued my business and didn't want to lose me as a customer. I again conveyed the magnitude of the incovenience his shop had caused for me.

At one point I had $1000 in hundred dollar bills on the counter. He looked at me and said, "Let's split it." I agreed with little hesitation.

He asked to have a shot at EARNING that other $500 back and I told him I'd be happy to return in the future. To be fair, he's done a lot of work on my vehicle in the past with a level of proficiency that is hard to find. He gave me a breakdown of his expenses for this fiasco, which were many. We agreed he was out a good chunk of money, I was put out with a major inconvenience but neither one of us are bad guys out for the kill. It just sucked for all involved.

Did I cut him too much slack? I really don't think so. His shop made a massive mistake and decorated that mistake with a peppering of other mistakes. If I look inward, so have I. So have I.

He'll get the other $500 in time. I do drive a Land Rover. It will need repair. This time, I can assure you, there will be extra care involved.

The real victory here was that everyone got to travel the high road and nothing got ugly.

THE END. <whew>

 

[Funrover]

Glad to hear it's all over.

 

[syke]

Perfect.... sounds like it went as well as could be expected.

 

[Superu]

Thanks for the update. Sounds like a terrific outcome for both of you and the hope for a continued prosperous relationship. :ylsmoke:

 

[Mr. Leary]

You are more forgiving than I....

Glad to hear that y'all were able to reach an agreement....

 

[Christophe Noel]

AYE!!!!! I CAN NOT BELIEVE IT...... I drove it 52 miles today and just as I was heading home, the ABS, DHC, TC lights came back on!!!!!!!!!!

That's why I took this thing in to the shop in the first place!!!!!! They had the ABS modulator and pump rebuilt. They replaced the shuttle valve. The brake lines are new. The rotors are new. The pads are new. HOLY CRAP!

I will say the brake performance was not so super. This brings me to another question:

What brake pad do you Disco owners prefer? The rotors and pads I have now were part of a rebuild kit I got from Atlantic British. The pads are Lockheed pads. Should I switch to something else. Would it be wise to scrap those rotors and pads and start fresh? They've been on there MAYBE 200 miles.

 

[syke]

Oh jeez.... are you serious?

 

[Christophe Noel]

Oh jeez.... are you serious?

True. Yes. Afraid so. The original problem is still a problem.

Mr. Brady threw another option on the table for me - ditch the ABS. I think I'll get a center locking diff and give my brake system a labotomy.

 

[SMD]

Wow... sounded like a good ending until this last round.

Don't have the D2 anymore and always had it serviced by the dealer anyway, but FWIW I only use OEM pads on the D1.

One of the wheel sensors? Is there a blink test similar to what we D1 owners can use to diagnose ABS fault codes?

EDIT: Have you searched DWeb for other possible causes?

 

[juha_teuvonnen]

Disco II is infamous for the "3 amigos", namely the ABS, DHC and TC lights. While the shuttle valve failures are common, these are not the only known problem with Disco II brakes. The original (early production) ABS modulators were faulty by design, so rebuilding them is a waste of time and money. The later production (redesigned) models perform ok. Disco II ABS modulator is one of the few rare cases where I would prefer a known good used component over a rebuilt one.

Personally, I consider the following ABS-equipped Land Rover products "a lawsuit waiting to happen", as far as brakes are concerned:
- Range Rover Classic (with ABS, both SWB and LWB)
- Land Rover Discovery I
- Land Rover Discovery II

These are the Land Rover products that I have owned so far, and all of them had lousy brakes. I heard that WABCO is owned by the same parent company as American Standard. My be they should stick to making toilets, and pull out of making automotive products altogether.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

FWIW, I read some bad things about the Lockheed parts, and bought the Ferodo from AB instead, haven't had an issue. They're only installed on the back so far. Fronts are waiting until the existing fronts are finished.

You're way past the point I would have thrown in the towel on that ABS system. For me, soon as somebody tells me I need to rebuild the ABS pump for $1000... screw it, out it comes and in go some new lines and adjustable prop valve for a couple hundred at most.

One problem is, you'll have a real hard time having somebody do that work. You'd probably have to do it yourself, or find some shadetree mechanic to do it with unpredictable results.

At least the D2 ABS seems to fail in a "safe" way, unlike the D1, as far as I know?

At this point, I think that garage should at least be swapping to Ferodo brake parts at no charge. Obviously their original diagnosis was questionable.