Accessing the computer on 01+ GM vehicles....or why I hate my new chevy

02TahoeMD

Explorer
What are you guys using for a basic code reader ?

I have two different ways of reading code in my OBD / Computer equipped vehicles. I have a ScanGauge 2 permanently mounted in my 2002 Tahoe. Anytime the computer throws a code with "service engine light" the ScanGauge will tell me what the code is, and ask if I wish to delete it. The SG2 is about $120 or thereabouts. When my intake manifold developed a leak I was getting a check engine code about every 2 weeks, always same code, so having the SG2 mounted up made it a breeze to clear it out and keep things cleared until I could effect a repair.

For my "shadetree mechanic" projects when I help others out with their own cars, I have a bluetooth reader called the Vgate OBD Scan. It pairs with my smartphone using a free app called Torque. This can give real time readouts of the engine running and also allows one to read and delete any codes the computer is throwing. The Vgate OBD Scan was about $10.00 (yes, ten dollars) from Amazon. Hope this can help you.
 

plumber mike

Adventurer
I have two different ways of reading code in my OBD / Computer equipped vehicles. I have a ScanGauge 2 permanently mounted in my 2002 Tahoe. Anytime the computer throws a code with "service engine light" the ScanGauge will tell me what the code is, and ask if I wish to delete it. The SG2 is about $120 or thereabouts. When my intake manifold developed a leak I was getting a check engine code about every 2 weeks, always same code, so having the SG2 mounted up made it a breeze to clear it out and keep things cleared until I could effect a repair.

For my "shadetree mechanic" projects when I help others out with their own cars, I have a bluetooth reader called the Vgate OBD Scan. It pairs with my smartphone using a free app called Torque. This can give real time readouts of the engine running and also allows one to read and delete any codes the computer is throwing. The Vgate OBD Scan was about $10.00 (yes, ten dollars) from Amazon. Hope this can help you.

That was good info. Thanks. The tuning scene seems a bit overwhelming for what I'm looking for, but I'm still reading up on all that is possible. Amazing stuff.
 

Larry

Bigassgas Explorer
oh yeah, you got me... I've never built a 70 Buick Skylark, a 62 Buick Skylark, 7 S-10 V8 Blazers, countless chevy pickups, an H3 Hummer, a FJ40 (my 8th), a 50 buick sedanet, a Fiat Spider with a twin turbo CTS Cadillac motor, several C3 Corvettes... but outside of that, there was that whole flipping car period of my life that included VWs, Hondas, toyotas and anything else I could make a buck on.

But you're next line will be about my lack of offroading... funny, both Search and Rescue organizations I'm part of think I know what I'm doing - but you, keyboard jockey, will set them straight... they'll feel so foolish.

All you do is run your mouth, Larry, if only you knew what you were talking about.

Yeah, yeah…. We all know you are a burnt out ole hot rodder that builds 10,000 HP engines because you tell us so all time. You’re just still sore because you went on an over confident tangent in another thread where you claimed your Jeep Rubicon had electric shift 4x4 and I proved you wrong. I think you will have a hard time finding any threads where I have been wrong about anything or hear of anybody that knows of me handing out bad information.

You have a habit of being arrogant and not playing well with other members, not just to me but several community members have had to go around and around with you. The personal attacks and name calling need to stop if you want to continue to be part of Expedition Portal. If you haven’t noticed this forum is not like Pirate4x4 or wherever you came from. If you continue to be a poor community member you don’t have to be a member of Expo at all. Let us know as we can arrange to have your log in credentials turned off and IP address banned.
 

zoomad75

K5 Camper guy
Wow... Stepper motor more reliable than linkage? Ask anybody with a electronic shift t-case that's had to pay $600 or so to replace the encoder motor when it gets stuck in range or shifts to neutral. Want to talk hot rods and electric shift goodies? A well known hot rod builder here in our little town built a killer Mercury lead sled, complete with a push button trans shifter for the 700r4 he installed. It was pretty cool as he integrated the shifter into a floating console that came up from the rear seats. New technology is flaky at times and after the 2nd time he went to unload the car off the trailer it wouldn't shift out of park. Crawling under a LOW lead sled in an enclosed car trailer just to manually shift the trans out of park to unload it was enough to piss him off to no end. Once he brought it back home from the show, the push button shifter was yanked and a new steering column was installed with a regular old shift lever on it.

I'm with Larry on this one. If I'm out in the boonies I don't want to rely on some electrical device to shift for me when I need it most. Reliability has improved with design changes over time, but it's not fool proof. The bulletins/recalls for t-case updates GM issued on the new 14/15 half ton's and SUV's is proof positive it's not perfect.
 

superbuickguy

Explorer
Yeah, yeah…. We all know you are a burnt out ole hot rodder that builds 10,000 HP engines because you tell us so all time. You're just still sore because you went on an over confident tangent in another thread where you claimed your Jeep Rubicon had electric shift 4x4 and I proved you wrong. I think you will have a hard time finding any threads where I have been wrong about anything or hear of anybody that knows of me handing out bad information.

You have a habit of being arrogant and not playing well with other members, not just to me but several community members have had to go around and around with you. The personal attacks and name calling need to stop if you want to continue to be part of Expedition Portal. If you haven't noticed this forum is not like Pirate4x4 or wherever you came from. If you continue to be a poor community member you don't have to be a member of Expo at all. Let us know as we can arrange to have your log in credentials turned off and IP address banned.

1) the claim of 10k hp? do post that, I'd be interested to see that too.

2) wrong about the Jeep? simply because I stopped talking doesn't make you right...

YJ_Model30-Front-Axle.jpg


look closely at item #16 - isn't that the slide yoke that's moved by an electric motor #18 on a 2007 up Jeep Rubicon?
oh no, I did know what I was talking about.... oh wait, actually I did...
 
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superbuickguy

Explorer
Wow... Stepper motor more reliable than linkage? Ask anybody with a electronic shift t-case that's had to pay $600 or so to replace the encoder motor when it gets stuck in range or shifts to neutral. Want to talk hot rods and electric shift goodies? A well known hot rod builder here in our little town built a killer Mercury lead sled, complete with a push button trans shifter for the 700r4 he installed. It was pretty cool as he integrated the shifter into a floating console that came up from the rear seats. New technology is flaky at times and after the 2nd time he went to unload the car off the trailer it wouldn't shift out of park. Crawling under a LOW lead sled in an enclosed car trailer just to manually shift the trans out of park to unload it was enough to piss him off to no end. Once he brought it back home from the show, the push button shifter was yanked and a new steering column was installed with a regular old shift lever on it.

I'm with Larry on this one. If I'm out in the boonies I don't want to rely on some electrical device to shift for me when I need it most. Reliability has improved with design changes over time, but it's not fool proof. The bulletins/recalls for t-case updates GM issued on the new 14/15 half ton's and SUV's is proof positive it's not perfect.

just one example, I still have scars from laying under one of my s-10 pickups (4 cyl, before it was v8ed) having to put the bellcrank back into the ball on the motor because it popped out. I don't have a problem with push button - but then again, if it breaks in the woods, I can fix it because I know how it works - not just that, there are 2 ways of fixing it... but, my 83 diesel pickup and my 08 Hummer both have the same number of miles on it, and only one I've had to fix in the woods (repeatedly)... it wasn't the hummer. Don't be afraid of technology, don't use aftermarket to tell me about how unreliable it is, and don't gloss over the past by claiming it was more reliable than it was... when was the last time you had to dry out a distributor or adjust points in the woods? when we as the last time you had to replace a spark coil?

and frankly, a difference of opinion is merely that - don't attack me because I gave the guy options... cables break too.
 

Kaisen

Explorer
I respect Larry's overall knowledge and mechanical abilities.

That said, I have a 2003 Suburban with over 260K miles and the pushbutton transfer case has never had one issue. Not one.

So how many more years than eleven years does it need to work EVERY TIME before I don't worry about whether it's a lever or knob or button or cable or pedal that engages if it just plain engages when I ask it to? How many more miles than 260,000? How many more Minnesota winters?

I guess when plumber mike says, "I just want the vehicles to work. Not a big request, really." ...... my vehicle just works. With an electronic transfer case.

There are a lot of long-held opinions here that are hard to change, and that's okay. Not everyone wants a WWII Army Jeep that's admittedly simple and un-stoppable as a daily driver. Anything else is a serious of compromises. Sometimes it's taken a risk. I'm just telling you that I've taken the risk, yet never been left stranded, and always get where I want to go. Even in a complex, modern (over a decade old, ha!) vehicle with 70 series (gasp!) tires.
 

superbuickguy

Explorer
I had a MB that I bought from an old guy who bought it surplus. He'd replaced the dauntless motor with a pinto motor - apparently they survived the explosions - and it broke absolutely everything ... spun the wheel hubs on the axles, broke the axles, broke the transfer case... I think I still wake up with pain in my back from driving it.

I admit that the manfacturers shot themselves in the feet with their first attempts at part-time, ifs 4x4 (and jeep system too) - that vacuum system got me in a snowstorm when the hoses burned next to the cat... I get they have issues, but I have NP203s, a NP205 and several toyota t-cases either under my bench or my belt - and they're not all that... they each have their issues - from the figure 8 np 205 cracking, the stretched 203 transfer case chains. About the most robust transfer cases out there is the NP241 because it uses planetaries rather than side gears... and that same chain got me in my Hummer.... but still, being afraid of the tech is like claiming you won't own a new computer because of Tandy Radio Shack computers... TRS-80s... you know, the ones that had DOS then MS-Dos.... and now we have MS.... learn to work the system, don't be afraid of it - really, you'd be amazed at how good it is. Currently I'm building a Dana 60 axle, I'm replacing the axle shafts because the new material is 40% stronger than what came in the axle in 1970....
 

Larry

Bigassgas Explorer
1) the claim of 10k hp? do post that, I'd be interested to see that too.

2) wrong about the Jeep? simply because I stopped talking doesn't make you right...

YJ_Model30-Front-Axle.jpg


look closely at item #16 - isn't that the slide yoke that's moved by an electric motor #18 on a 2007 up Jeep Rubicon?
oh no, I did know what I was talking about.... oh wait, actually I did...

histerical.gif
Well, ya….that is your front axle disconnect….not a transfercase. Front axle disconnects have pretty much all been electric for years, which was a huge leap in reliability over vacuum disconnects but still lag behind real deal manual locking hubs. Simple in/out…on/off…..1/0 type solenoids like axle disconnects aren’t that bad actually. It is the multi-position electric motors backed by control modules and 5 lbs of wiring harness like tcase encoder motors that are sketchy at best. Remember, we talked about that and you said your Jeep Rubicon had “electric shift” in this thread (post #32) and even offered up a picture. I showed you that it wasn’t and now you post up a picture of an electronic front disconnect which isn’t nearly the same thing.
histerical.gif


I respect Larry's overall knowledge and mechanical abilities.

That said, I have a 2003 Suburban with over 260K miles and the pushbutton transfer case has never had one issue. Not one.

Kaisen, you are way beyond due for an issue but for what you use that Burb for in an urban all weather vehicle setting it may work fine and even when it doesn’t it is just an inconvenience for a day of Christmas shopping at Mall of America. Its not like you'll have to walk out 20 miles of trail in Death Valley on a 100 degree day to the nearest lonely highway. Take something like that on a real world outing in Canyonlands or in the mountains where you are shifting in and out of 4 hi to 4 low every 50 to 100 yards and see how well it works out. The other thing is you are basing your opinion on one vehicle that you have experience with in an urban setting. That is like one single 6.0L PowerJoke guy with a 98,000 miles on his engine that has performed like a sewing machine so far saying the 6.0L diesels are the best engines ever when real world knowledge knows that is not reality. It is the electric shift convenient and easy for the wife to use? Yes, just like a cell phone and a AAA membership. That is exactly what is wrong with pretty much all of the 4x4 full-size SUVs and trucks. They are made for people that should be driving cars.....like all-weather Subaru's cars to be exact. :elkgrin:
 

plumber mike

Adventurer
^^I like this guy. Hahaha

He does seem to "get it".

I'm glad Kaisen has not had any trouble with his push button 4wd. I assume most people don't, or they would have been gone, but I think it boils down to convenience. My wife is "put out"......literally, if she has to drive a vehicle where you need to get out and lock the hubs. It's convienient to push a button. I get that. A lot of pavement pounders don't have any problems with the electric shift motors. I get that too. But for us, living on a dirt road(ice or mud when it's not dirt) has allowed the true colors of reliability to show on every vehicle we own. If there is a weak link. The dirt road will reveal it. The dirt road consumes parts at a much faster rate than a suburban commute. Tires, ujoints, brakes, etc all see a shortened service life. I try to upgrade to parts that better handle a life of abuse.

I have dealt with the GM auto track 4wd issues enough times that I'm ready to upgrade to something that has proven itself in the dirt.........like a simple lever operated transfer case. I want to shut off the part of the computer that thinks that the "4wd" needs servicing. It doesn't. It has fresh synthetic fluid in it. The vehicles I own with levers for 4wd selection have worked for as long as I have owned them. The ones with electric motors have not. That's a problem for me. I came to Expo specifically because of my assumption that others who also travel dirt roads on a regular basis would have a solution. Buying another part, the same as the one that proved itself a failure already, is not a solution. It's a band aid to get you through to such time as a solution can be made. Easier yes. Better. No.
 

Swedeski

Adventurer
I know it's been mentioned before. But with a bluetoothdevice and a free app in your phone or tablet You will come a long way. Reading and clearing fault codes and getting realtime info while driving. And it's not a big investment to. I got mine for 6 bucks ordered from China. I've tried it on a 2013 VW Passat, 2004 Volvo and a Chevy Silverado 98 and it has worked well with all. And if You are willing to spend a little more You can upgrade your app later if You find it worth your money. Offcourse You can't do and tune "everything" in your computer but it's a real cheap and simple starting point.
 

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Kaisen

Explorer
Kaisen, you are way beyond due for an issue but for what you use that Burb for in an urban all weather vehicle setting it may work fine and even when it doesn't it is just an inconvenience for a day of Christmas shopping at Mall of America. Its not like you'll have to walk out 20 miles of trail in Death Valley on a 100 degree day to the nearest lonely highway. Take something like that on a real world outing in Canyonlands or in the mountains where you are shifting in and out of 4 hi to 4 low every 50 to 100 yards and see how well it works out. The other thing is you are basing your opinion on one vehicle that you have experience with in an urban setting. That is like one single 6.0L PowerJoke guy with a 98,000 miles on his engine that has performed like a sewing machine so far saying the 6.0L diesels are the best engines ever when real world knowledge knows that is not reality. It is the electric shift convenient and easy for the wife to use? Yes, just like a cell phone and a AAA membership. That is exactly what is wrong with pretty much all of the 4x4 full-size SUVs and trucks. They are made for people that should be driving cars.....like all-weather Subaru's cars to be exact. :elkgrin:

You've made a few assumptions that humorously help make your point, but aren't exactly the truth in my case. This particular truck sees a lot of duty, it's not a daily driver or mall crawler, but a cabin/canoeing/boating/snowmobiling/car-carrying/airstream towing workhorse. A lot of Minnesota North of the Twin Cities is "backwoods", and we head to the Boundary Waters (Sawbill outside Tofte) regularly, where the "roads" really aren't. It's in and out of 4x4 often. Low-range not terribly often. And it serves Winter daily driving when there's snow on the ground, again in and out of 4x4. We don't have tremendous grade and rock crawling here (unless you seek it out) so you're right, I don't engage 4Lo as often as others. Plus, there's enough torque. At some boat launches where others need 4Lo, I just use the throttle. So you've got me there. Still, in those times I do engage 4Lo, it works. Every time. Can't complain.

The point of a personal anecdote is that it's truth, not a generalization. One person's truth, but it is fact and cannot be argued that it didn't happen. Talking about someone else's truth isn't quite as credible.

As an aside to your 6.0 jab, I owned a 2007 F350 Powerstroke 4x4 (Harley Crew) up to about 117K miles (sold it in early 2010), and it had one failure, ever.... a climate control head unit that went on the fritz and was covered under warranty. That's it. No issues with anything else. I replaced the tires twice. I replaced front brakes once. And regular maintenance fluids/filters, etc. It was a great truck. I always feared it would break in all of those catastrophic ways, but it never did. What can I say?

My 2007 GMC Duramax Crew 4x4 (Classic) got a new turbocharger last year, under warranty. It probably wasn't necessary, but the vanes on the turbo got sticky and the sensor set a code. Instead of taking it apart and cleaning it, GM decided to replace it. Wasn't my money. If it would have been, I would have just cleaned it. Otherwise, the truck has never had a failure. It has a little over 60K miles now, and the only time it moves is when there's a heavy trailer on it. Tires once, front brakes once... both a couple years ago at about 40K. Low miles, but it's still eight years old and it's seen heavy towing most of that time.

So these are personal anecdotes. My truths. If someone else has a failure and says "they all do it", well... YMMV
 

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