Advice from electrical guru's

[RMP&O]

As the title says.

I recently prepp'ed my 80 series Cruiser for a trip to Baja. I was in a bit of a hurry so didn't do the wiring exactly as I wanted to. Basically I needed to relocate my battery from the engine bay to the back of the truck. I also added an aux battery and a National Luna 2nd battery kit. To relocate the battery from the engine bay to the back f the truck is where it still needs work. I did it fast and it is kind of shoddy, no issues though and it all works fine. Just looks crappy.

What I did was buy a cheapo terminal block for a trailer at Napa. This I ran all the smaller stuff in the engine bay from. That being charging system, lockers (hard wired), power to ECU's and a few other small items. Basically just everything that was powered up in the engine bay off the main battery to begin with. I mounted this out of the way and it does have a cover. I ran a big 1 or 2g from the main battery now in the back to this terminal block. I also did the same for the ground. I made all my own ends and wires. I hard mounted the terminal block and wired everything up. I ran big 1g from my relocated (to engine bay) winch control box back the the main battery in the new location, same for ground on it. I did the same with the starter wire. In other words these items do not pass through the terminal block. The power wire from the main batt to the terminal block I also put on an 80amp inline fuse.

To my joy everything worked fine first try. I put no test time on any of it and it all gave me no probs on the 3 week trip to Baja. However, I am trying to make sure I didn't make any mistakes as well as did things correctly. Wiring is not a strong point for me. The only prob with any wiring on the trip is I lost my low beams the last day coming home. No idea when during that day I lost them as I didn't notice it until dark. Once home I investigate to find the RHS 15amp fuse for headlights is a bit burned. It doesn't look blown but one side on the top is melted. In case you don't know on an 80 Cruiser it has RHS and LHS fuses for each headlight, no separation between high and low. There is also a relay for the headlights. My high beams work fine, it is just both lows that are not working. Everything else seems to be working fine. I looked at the headlight wires briefly and see no issues, I have not pulled them out yet though or got out my volt meter.

So my questions are, did I relocate the main battery correctly?
Did I do the engine bay wiring correctly? I changed no wire sizes in the engine bay and ran a big fat 2g from batt to terminal block, same with grounds.
What would cause the low beams to go out and melt part of the fuse?
Any thing you would suggest or change?

One odd thing is that I have had a bad ground somewhere on the truck (I think) since I got it. The truck would get statically charged and shock me often. Since the re-wiring this issue has seemed to go away so perhaps I solved it with my ground wire work.

Cheers

 

[RMP&O]

Here is some pics if it helps clear things up a bit.

This is the terminal block in the engine bay. Yes that is my charcoal canister wire tied to it! Hack I know but was rushed before the trip and I want to re-do the terminal block and re-locate the charcoal canister.

The mass of wires coming down from the engine bay. Starter wire on the right. I ran these through the inner fender and down to the RHS underside of the truck.

I am sure it doesn't look at that secure but I did use some electrical wire clamps, drilled and mounted to body/frame with sheet metal screws. I was thinking about maybe re-doing it with a piece of conduit along the frame rail. What is your thoughts on using conduit for this home made harness? The only advantage I am seeing with some type of conduit would be protection from brush and snagging on brush/debris and for a cleaner look.

From that location it goes back along the chassis to where I enter the cab of the Cruiser. Silicone is fairly junk style but works and got the job done when I was in a hurry. No leaks at all around the holes.

Comes into the cab here and then goes into my home made battery box behind the rear passenger seat.

This is a total mess right now, embarrassing even! I did it in a hurry though right before leaving, I do plan to clean it up. Odyssey 1700 for main and 1200 for aux. National Luna kit can be seen along with a Blue Sea fuse block and the inline 80amp fuse to my forward-engine bay terminal block.

That is about the just of it. Really looking for feedback or comments from any of you with lot's of experience. I know we got some electrical engineers on here as well as guys who have home built their own campers and wired them from scratch. Want to make sure it is safe and interested in ideas to improve it.

Cheers

 

[4x4junkie]

Usually if a fuse melts at it's terminal (without it actually "blowing"), is the result of a poor connection in the fuseholder (the resistance causes things to heat up to the point that it melts/burns the terminal then fails completely). This is very common with older glass fuses, but I've seen it happen to the blade types too (not familiar with what the 80-series LC uses).
It doesn't sound to me like something related to your relocating the battery. I would say clean the contact up best you can (or better, replace it if possible), then stick a new fuse in it and keep an eye on it.


FWIW, I did the same thing with my BII, I relocated the battery (two actually) underneath the rear seat. How I did mine was run a single #00 wire (about 10' long IIRC) from a large terminal block under the hood to the battery for positive, then for ground I bonded everything that went to the battery negative to the frame using a 2" x 8" sheet of #18ga copper plate bolted in 4 places (this to spread out the current going into the steel framerail). Next to the battery I then picked up off the frame going to the battery negative using the same method. Power for my winch is also connected at the terminal block under the hood and ground is to the frame at the 2x8" copper plate.
As a measure to protect against possible voltage spikes from the starter and winch motors switching on/off, I also put a 14,100µF capacitor (3×4700µF) from the underhood terminal block to ground (this might not be needed on yours since you ran your winch and starter leads separate).
I've had mine like this for about 8 years now and no issues with it.

 

[Howard70]

RMP&O:

What is the linear length of the 1 gauge wire run? 1 gauge might not be nearly enough if the length is great - especially for the winch. When the voltage is high (engine running) the other wires in the system could carry the current OK. Because your alternator connects to the distribution block those wires aren't pulling from the battery (with engine running) and they have nice high voltage which means fewer amps and less heat. When you turn the engine off the 1 g run from the back of the truck causes voltage drop (how much depends on the current and distance). Then the other wires in the system get less voltage which means higher amps which means more heat, which means possibly burnt wires or blown fuses. Does your head hurt yet?

Howard

 

[RMP&O]

RMP&O:

Does your head hurt yet?

Howard

Ha, yes a little Howard! It is processing though and I will see if I can get an estimate of lengths of the runs. I used the biggest wire I could get at Napa without going super huge semi stuff. I could be wrong on my stating it is 1g. The winch wires are nearly as big around as my thumb. The starter wire is the same size. The hot and ground to the terminal block is one step down in size, more like the diameter of my pinky or pointer finger. Again thank you and I will see if I can verify wire size and run lengths.

Cheers

 

[RMP&O]

4x4Junkie, thanks for the response and general info on your set up. I need to verify my wire sizes I think before I say more.

Cheers

 

[RMP&O]

Ok so it appears the big wire is #1g. The run from the batteries to the terminal block is roughly 10ft, maybe 8ft but not more than 10ft. The winch is going to be the longest run at about 15ft. I have not used the winch yet since the re-wire. Starter wire is also 1g and about an 8ft run.


Any comments?

 

[dwh]

I agree with 4x4junkie - I doubt the blown headlight fuse has anything to do with your battery relocation. When I was reading it, I was thinking "bad ground" and then further down on the post you mentioned that you knew you had a bad ground.

You said the fuse looked a bit burned, but didn't look blown. I would want to confirm that. You can use a multi-meter set to check continuity to see if the fuse blew or not. I suspect it actually did blow. Bad ground = higher resistance = more amps = blown and/or burned fuse.

So yea, sounds like a bad ground.


As to the battery relocation, I'm just going to stay out of it. Looks like you did everything pretty much right, and you've already got a couple guys on the case who know what they're doing, and I don't spot any major problems offhand so I think you're doing fine. Seems like all you really need to do is figure out if you sized the large feeder wires correctly.

I don't think you need conduit unless you can spot a rubbing problem somewhere.

 

[RMP&O]

I agree with 4x4junkie - I doubt the blown headlight fuse has anything to do with your battery relocation. When I was reading it, I was thinking "bad ground" and then further down on the post you mentioned that you knew you had a bad ground.

You said the fuse looked a bit burned, but didn't look blown. I would want to confirm that. You can use a multi-meter set to check continuity to see if the fuse blew or not. I suspect it actually did blow. Bad ground = higher resistance = more amps = blown and/or burned fuse.

So yea, sounds like a bad ground.


As to the battery relocation, I'm just going to stay out of it. Looks like you did everything pretty much right, and you've already got a couple guys on the case who know what they're doing, and I don't spot any major problems offhand so I think you're doing fine. Seems like all you really need to do is figure out if you sized the large feeder wires correctly.

I don't think you need conduit unless you can spot a rubbing problem somewhere.

Ya but I also said I thought I fixed the bad ground. Truck doesn't shock me anymore but I think I should go through every ground on the truck and make sure it is good.

Fuse isn't blown but it is a little melted. New fuse doesn't fix it. Shop has been cold, boiler down, just got that fixed today so plan to be back in the shop tomorrow.

No comments from anyone on my wire size and length of run?

Going to re-do the terminal block and it's wiring in the near future. That would be a good time to up the wire size if I need to. I could do a little diagram of the wiring if it helps a bit? Might even help me to keep track of it all!


Cheers

 

[Roaming Gnome]

Here's a great chart I use. Remember DC is round trip not just one way. So a 15' run up to your winch should be sized at 30'

 

[4x4junkie]

No comments from anyone on my wire size and length of run?

I'd probably upsize the wires for the winch & starter (#0 for starter, #00 for the winch), but for the terminal block I think you're fine, if not already overkill.

How exactly did you run your battery ground? Are you grounded through the frame like I did? Or did you run a separate wire for ground from under the hood back to the battery also?

 

[RMP&O]

I'd probably upsize the wires for the winch & starter (#0 for starter, #00 for the winch), but for the terminal block I think you're fine, if not already overkill.

How exactly did you run your battery ground? Are you grounded through the frame like I did? Or did you run a separate wire for ground from under the hood back to the battery also?

I ran a ground to the terminal block from the battery in the back, it is #1 too. Then all the grounds in the engine bay were grounded to the terminal block. Basically it is the same as it was I just put in the terminal block.

Couple questions.

Should I upsize the ground on the winch to #00 too?

Should I ground both batteries to the frame at the back of the chassis where they are located now? Right now it is grounded just like it was before I moved the battery. To the body and frame in the engine bay. Motor is grounded too.

I have an 80amp inline fuse on the terminal block main power wire, the #1. Should I upsize this fuse or go to a circuit breaker? One reason I ask is if I go to say a 150amp alt will the 80amp fuse be enough? I am thinking about getting a MeanGreen alt in the future. I don't recall off the top of my head but I think it is maybe a 200amp alt.



I do need to go over all the grounds on the entire truck and make sure they are good.

Thanks for your input and advice so far!

Cheers

 

[4x4junkie]

Absolutely upsize your ground wire. It should be the same size or bigger than your hot wires (so #00 for your ground). Both batteries should be grounded together, yes.
#00 welding wire is $$$ though (and somewhat heavy), which is a big reason why I did mine the way I did (also the sheer size of the frame's cross-sectional area presents a path of lower resistance than the (small in comparison) copper wire would). Because the frame is steel though, copper current spreaders should be used so you don't have a hot spot (concentration of current) right at the point where you put your bolt (10-15 sq-in of 16-18ga copper sheet w/3-4 bolts into the frame should do it). Also put grease (dielectric or other) under the plates so corrosion (from electrolysis) can't set in under them.
(lemme know if you want, I can get you pics of how I did mine)

For the terminal block wire, what I'd probably do there is simply double it up with another #1 wire taken from one of your other runs (save a couple bucks), then up the fuse to a 200A ANL-type or something similar that actually bolts down into the holder.