Advice Needed:: Tacoma owner considering a ZR2

[upcruiser]

^^^For the love of everyone's eyes, use some paragraph breaks every once in a while lol^^^

That's my typing a novel from my phone, my bad.

And just to clarify, not bashing anyone for being a fan of a particular marque, everyone is entitled to that, more or less saying, some portrayals are highly blown up. Especially on vehicle based forums, the good and the bad get inflated. It's great we have a bunch of options these days. It wasn't that long ago that if you "overlanded" you drove a Land Cruiser, a Tacoma, or were a glutton for punishment yet highly passionate person driving a Land Rover. Waaaay more options today and competition looking to keep driving new products into the distant future at this point.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Stereotypes are also often based on inaccurate perceptions and emotions (and I think there are enough historical examples of that for you to know what I'm getting at). Bias should not be the foundation from which we judge something. I understand that everyone is inherently biased to some degree, but I make a point of at least trying to overcome those biases in developing an objective and semi-rational understanding.

Of course we're all biased but we're not attempting to resolve an absolute logical truth here. When we name trucks and develop emotional attachment it's implicitly irrational. It *is* an absurdity that we develop these affections, imposing them on piles of nuts and grease. But it sure seems these truck are almost aware individuals sometimes, more than just purely useful objects like a toaster. I like to think so anyway, even if it's just due to their status as emotional triggers for memories.

 

[Clutch]

Of course we're all biased but we're not attempting to resolve an absolute logical truth here. When we name trucks and develop emotional attachment it's implicitly irrational. It *is* an absurdity that we develop these affections, imposing them on piles of nuts and grease. But it sure seems these truck are almost aware individuals sometimes, more than just purely useful objects like a toaster. I like to think so anyway, even if it's just due to their status as emotional triggers for memories.

Yep...some damn reason I have an emotional attachment to air cooled VW's which are total POS death traps...same with mid 70's Ford trucks (learned to drive in a '76 F250 Ranger Highboy, so that is the reasoning there)...another POS when it was new. And now Toyotas...maybe because I was the first to stray from our "Ford Only" family and buy Jap Crap? Good trucks but...they start nickel and diming at around *150-200K...little ******** starts going wrong, and it escalates from there. *EDIT: make that 90K...because that is when the timing belt and suspension needed done on my Tacoma...so yes, even Toyotas need some BS fussing with before 100K. Everyone that says they don't is full of ********.

Would be nice to try a different vehicle every couple months to see what really works best. But being a working class stiff that ain't gonna happen. So I go and test drive just about all of them...and ya know, they are all about the same, pick a color you like, and a giant cod piece grill that offends you the least and go exploring. Cause that is what is really all about, getting out there and enjoying life.

Going out camping this weekend for the first time this year. I might have my truck or maybe not. Put a new steering rack and cam seal in last couple weeks, and two days ago the front diff started puking gear oil...at its' age and mileage annoying oil leaks are starting to spring up. That particular seal is seemingly hard to find...So I may or may not have it by the weekend...I'll just take my Trooper instead and will enjoy the weekend regardless. (unless that ************ decides to break too! )

 

[knoxswift]

I'll throw in my 2c.

I'm in the market. My 2010 Tacoma has 200K on the dial, I've been reluctant to do any more upgrades to it with that many miles on it. It really could use a gear update since I run 33" tires. Other than that no major issues daily driver to work, does get poor gas mileage but again I should upgrade gears if I want to return it to stock conditions or remove the big tires.

So, I set out for some test drives. 200k might be time to trad in?

2018 Tacoma Off-Road. (I want the access cab so Pro is non-starter)
New engine doesn't have the get-up and go of the 4.0 in the 2010 with 33s! Mash the petal it lumbers it way up, no manual transmission available for the Off-Road version. I tried the manual override shifting of the Auto it really didn't help much.
The payload and towing numbers are good on paper. I'd like to see it with my 900+ lb FWC in it. On my 2010 I had to upgrade the suspension but on paper the 2010 has much lower spec. numbers. I wonder if the specs. hold true in real life on the new 2018s? I'm guessing it's going to need helper springs if anything. It rides pretty soft stock.
The interior is nice. Upgrade for sure from a Toyota owner point of view but lots of buttons.
Nav system is OK. I think the Chevy has the better nav system.

2018 ZR2 Diesel. Just seems sluggish to me, but coming from gas engines that might be expected. It is slower than the Toyota and even slower than my current truck. If I went this route 2 problems. You want an access cab, its special order only. there are like 3 dealers in the whole country with an access cab in this. The bed of the access cab is significantly different than the Toyota for me that means modification of the camper to fit the new size bed. These two make it a show stopper even if I switch to wanting the gas version. I didn't think the gas version was as responsive as my current truck but it was equal to the 2018 Toyota.
The interior is not that great. Very plastic which I've seen everyone seems to mention too. Lots of buttons too but the buttons are smaller than the Tacoma and easier to fat finger. However the Nav/Tech/Radio system is more desirable than the Toyota.

What I've learned from my test drives. I think I'll be putting new gears in my old Toyota and seeing if I can reach 300K...

 

[Clutch]

No matter what the brand is, the best vehicle out there is one that is paid for.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

No matter what the brand is, the best vehicle out there is one that is paid for.

Is there other ways to obtain vehicles besides paying for it. Financing a depreciating item makes no sense.

 

[Clutch]

Is there other ways to obtain vehicles besides paying for it. Financing a depreciating item makes no sense.

There is! I paid a whole dollar for my Trooper...while I still had to "pay for it"... but not really! Couldn't really pass up that deal. Of course those deals only come around once in a lifetime, how often to you get a chance of buying a perfectly fine vehicle with change out of the ashtray!?

Once you pay a dollar for a vehicle...pretty dang hard to shell out thousands upon thousands of dollars for another that isn't going to do anything all that much different except drain my bank account.

Yep, financing a depreciating item makes no sense, well at least financial sense...maybe it makes emotional sense, but the initial excitement usually wears off after the first couple payments. Might be alright financially with a 0% interest rate, so you can keep some liquid cash in the bank....however vehicles are one of the worst investments that you can make...I don't even consider them investments, they are a liability. Maybe in the collector car game a vehicle is an investment, but it is just that... a game. Some times you win, sometimes you loose ( you mostly loose )....such is life.

You will loose money from the get go, and continue to loose money as it ages and is in need of repairs. Or maybe people play the trade-in before it needs major repair thing...just throwing away good money after bad doing that (as the OP contemplates on doing)...alas we all work for our money (at least most of us do)...we can spend it however we damn well please.

 

[Smileyshaun]

 

[Paddy]

Not sure why you guys are arguing over what is better...they are all crap. If it has tits or wheels it is gonna give ya trouble!

This is funny but particularly applicable to this discussion. As some have pointed out when you run the numbers it takes a long time to pay off the diesel in fuel cost. But what isn’t factored into that equation is that the Tacoma will go through several sets of spark plugs during that time. They cost like 20$ for a set. The diesel has no spark plugs so hey, you’re ahead there. But, you’re gonna ******** your pants when you get the bill for the DPF, EGR, CEL, IPR, and whatever else it has that has been reduced to three letters. Btw the reason they reduce these complicated parts to three letters is because they break so often.

A diesel will NEVER save you money.

 

[NevadaLover]

View attachment 443730

Looks like plainjane was here!

 

[Clutch]

This is funny but particularly applicable to this discussion. As some have pointed out when you run the numbers it takes a long time to pay off the diesel in fuel cost. But what isn’t factored into that equation is that the Tacoma will go through several sets of spark plugs during that time. They cost like 20$ for a set. The diesel has no spark plugs so hey, you’re ahead there. But, you’re gonna **** your pants when you get the bill for the DPF, EGR, CEL, IPR, and whatever else it has that has been reduced to three letters. Btw the reason they reduce these complicated parts to three letters is because they break so often.

A diesel will NEVER save you money.

You got it!

All and all, nothing is going to save you money....vehicles are like women...some are high maintenance, others are not....but in the end they are still gonna give ya trouble!


That last part of your paragraph reminded me of a Carlin skit...

 

[TexomaPowerboater]

Been following this thread for a while.

I can't understand for the life of me why anyone would buy a mid-sized truck that only gets 15mpg when you can get a full size truck that will get 30% better mileage. Maybe I'm just uninformed about Tacoma trucks, but If I was a Toyota truck fan and mileage was the same as a Tundra then why not get a full size Tundra? I looked at the ZR2 on the showroom floor and just not enough room for my family of 5 and gear to go car camping with. I ended up getting a new Chevy 1/2 ton crew cab Z71. Averages 20mpg on 30 min trip to work....pretty sure the Fords get even better. Don't understand why Toyota is so far behind the fuel curve. The fuel savings is significant, if I was the OP I'd be looking for something more fuel efficient or something more substantial that justifies 15mpg like a Tundra or perhaps a land cruiser, but if you live close to work and don't put many miles on it then I'd keep it and run up the miles to 200K. Buying new only makes sense financially if you run up the miles.

Some of the comments have been eye opening. Fleet trucks run by non-owner employee's that care nothing about protecting someone else's investment will always have the most problems. My chevy's have always been pretty good to me. Doesn't matter what you drive if you abuse it on or offroad they will all have problems.

 

[Dalko43]

@TexomaPowerboater, I'm pretty sure the OP's Tacoma is well-loaded (modifications, bumper, armor), so comparing its mpg to that of a stock Tundra or other 1/2 ton isn't really apples-to-apples.

I do agree the domestic 1/2 ton trucks have come a long way in terms of fuel efficiency. Still, I don't see any of them getting much better fuel economy than a Tacoma when modified to a similar degree.

 

[Clutch]

@TexomaPowerboater, I'm pretty sure the OP's Tacoma is well-loaded (modifications, bumper, armor), so comparing its mpg to that of a stock Tundra or other 1/2 ton isn't really apples-to-apples.

I do agree the domestic 1/2 ton trucks have come a long way in terms of fuel efficiency. Still, I don't see any of them getting much better fuel economy than a Tacoma when modified to a similar degree.

What I got from what he said was. If you're going to get crappy gas milage why not just get a bigger truck? You can build them them same, the 1/2 ton will handle the load better.

Kinda the point I am at with midsizes...they really don't make sense anymore. It did when I downsized from a F250 that got 8, to the '85 4Runner I bought that got 20...more than double the mileage.

Now the new 1/2 ton's have darn near have to capacities '76 F250 I had, maybe a little more. And fetch the same or better mpg numbers than the mini/mid size trucks. Love my Tacoma, but won't buy another when (if) the time comes.

I have no need to haul 5 people... 98-99% I am by myself (my wife is a workaholic, she never gets to come with me)....but a crew cab would be nice for taking the lunch naps I like to take. have been driving my Trooper to work instead of my Tacoma since it is in the shop...man, those back seats are nice to have! As I just got back from lunch... *yawn*....annnnnd now back to work, crap....that gaaad damn work thing always gets in the way of play.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

Maybe I'm just uninformed about Tacoma trucks, but If I was a Toyota truck fan and mileage was the same as a Tundra then why not get a full size Tundra?

My second gen Tundra CrewMax TRD 4WD is almost dead stock, except for 285/18 ATs, a Grp 31 battery, spray-in bed liner, SnugTop shell and some lights. I struggle to get close to 14mpg in that truck. Toyota insisted on selling that truck with 4.30 gears, and I think they still do. My old 5.7 Vortec GMC Z71 with 3.23s (I think) can squeak out 14 if I'm careful. My Dodge PW (3/4 ton) 5.7 Hemi with stock 4.56s gets just under 10, no matter what I do. You can get decent mileage in a full size half ton, but be careful what you buy. If I were the OP, I'd keep the Taco. If I really really wanted a new truck, I'd look at the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel. It's a lot of truck and it's a damn nice truck.