AGM battery quality vs cost. Do your research.
- Thread starter OllieChristopher
- Start date
OllieChristopher
Well-known member
Oops my bad. I thought this discussion was about AGM batteries.
vtsoundman
OverAnalyzer
It was...some like to argue for no dang good reason...and gets really annoying.
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OllieChristopher
Well-known member
I actually took the advice of a member here who has a Jeep
and knows a good bargain . I also took self advice by purchasing a cheap set of AGM batteries from a manufacturer that has been around longer than I have been alive. It is very rare to hear anything bad about Penn Mfg.I do know that Lifeline and Northstar are both fairly young companies as far as battery manufacturing goes and I'm not so trusting of the feedback I have heard on the forums.
I agree that manufacturers websites are not a good indicator. They are in the market to sell their product. IMHO third party field testing is the best. Nothing wrong at all with a low cost battery if it works well for the consumers needs. The point of this thread is to have members come on here and share their research and results.
Both Lifeline and Northstar's founders came out of Enersys (Odyssey)
which was one of the original pioneers of the TPPL technology it developed for its military customers based on the original Gates Energy patents it had acquired
that so greatly revolutionized AGM's capability.
All this was many decades ago now.
Deka / EPM is a fantastic company, but that rep is based on their excellent FLA and GEL lines.
Their AGM is very much second-tier for true deep cycling usage - where cycling longevity is mission-critical - similarly but more so than Trojan and even Rolls / Surrette.
Full River apparently lies in between.
But all of these makers are **much much** better than the mass market stuff you find in big box and automotive channels
most of which comes out of JCI factories (meh).
which was one of the original pioneers of the TPPL technology it developed for its military customers based on the original Gates Energy patents it had acquired
that so greatly revolutionized AGM's capability.
All this was many decades ago now.
Deka / EPM is a fantastic company, but that rep is based on their excellent FLA and GEL lines.
Their AGM is very much second-tier for true deep cycling usage - where cycling longevity is mission-critical - similarly but more so than Trojan and even Rolls / Surrette.
Full River apparently lies in between.
But all of these makers are **much much** better than the mass market stuff you find in big box and automotive channels
most of which comes out of JCI factories (meh).
OllieChristopher
Well-known member
EnerSys is an acquisition company for stored energy. I have seen first hand what kind of products those kind companies produce. Very cheaply made and high profit. What that 21 year old company did was greatly revolutionize AGM's high cost to the consumer.
Because they are TPPL was one of the biggest reasons I did not buy that battery. More of thinner plates means longer charge times to full charge. They also sulfate more than a standard AGM (more plates more sulfation). All those charge cycles you get come at a cost.
I wonder how many decades ago? I never heard of "thin plate pure lead" until I was searching for an AGM battery. The reality is it's nothing more than a fancy way of saying more lead plates in a smaller case. Thin plates will not last as long as a more robust thick plated AGM. BTW all lead acid batteries on earth are made with pure lead.
Research is good. It is important for members to know that just because a battery is expensive and the military uses it does not make it good.
Fiddlesticks.
Top engineering and R&D firm.
Their developments - including of the spiral tech that created the Optima line - enabled high C-rates in lead for the first time.
Including Lifeline and Northstar,
no better or longer-lived AGM units exist for sale to the public.
Firefly Oasis in there as well but for specialized use cases.
Yes of course they cost more
so if you don't want to pay the premium, don't.
Top engineering and R&D firm.
Their developments - including of the spiral tech that created the Optima line - enabled high C-rates in lead for the first time.
Including Lifeline and Northstar,
no better or longer-lived AGM units exist for sale to the public.
Firefly Oasis in there as well but for specialized use cases.
Yes of course they cost more
so if you don't want to pay the premium, don't.
broncobowsher
Adventurer
So if you plan for 50%, have a bad day and use 70%...
Isn't that better than planning on using 70% and having a bad day and using 90%?
Isn't that better than planning on using 70% and having a bad day and using 90%?
Alloy
Well-known member
Easiest way to know if a battery is good / better / best is to compare the full replacement warranty.
At one point I paid $$$$ for Rolls/ Surrette AGM thinking I was getting the best batteris. Centennial AGM were less money and had a longer warranty but I bought the name rather than the warranty.
After 2 1/2 years the Ah of the Rolls had dropped to 20% of (if it was ever was) spec and I was SOL.
Later was told that Rolls AGM are made in the same offshore plant as Full River.
At one point I paid $$$$ for Rolls/ Surrette AGM thinking I was getting the best batteris. Centennial AGM were less money and had a longer warranty but I bought the name rather than the warranty.
After 2 1/2 years the Ah of the Rolls had dropped to 20% of (if it was ever was) spec and I was SOL.
Later was told that Rolls AGM are made in the same offshore plant as Full River.
Trikebubble
Adventurer
Well, I don't know how my experience specifically relates to "overlanding", but I will say that I have been purchasing and installing AGM batteries in power mobility equipment, and servicing power mobility equipment, for over 25 years now, and their is absolutely no question their is a difference in longevity and reliability with a good AGM such as the MK Brand we have used for decades, over the cheap noname brands that I run into. I will not install anything other than a good quality AGM battery in the equipment we sell and service, the downside is just not worth the upside at all. I've seen it all over the past 25 years, seen every type of cheap battery that people will stuff into Granny's scooter to save a buck, and more often than not it comes back to bite them. But hey, that's just my .02.
OllieChristopher
Well-known member
Thus the reason I went with a cheap in price and high in quality Deko AGM. Same battery as the MK but in a different case. Both are made by East Penn Mfg.
Subjective statement at best. I can say with certainty If I was to put a thin lead plate Northstar or Lifeline battery next to a AGM made by East Penn, and take them to the King Of Hammers, the Northstar/Lifeline batteries would fair no better than a standard AGM in the first loop of slamming and flipping through the rocks.
High "C-rates" are not the do all end all of an AGM. It comes at a cost. All those fancy thin plated batteries take longer to charge than a standard thick plated AGM. Also not as robust for the end users who are taking them into harsh off highway conditions.
Yes, only their FLA are fantastic.
Same as Trojan and Deka, all three fantastic companies
but their AGM are not nearly as good as Odysey Northstar and Lifeline.
And, **no** AGM delivers the longevity and value of top notch FLA.
However, the units' quality no matter how special, will **not** deliver that longevity and value,
unless you have the A. gear, B. knowledge and C. motivation to care for them properly.
That is a lot more true with AGM than FLA, the latter are much more tolerant of "normal abuse".
Which if that is your use case, you might as well just get the cheap GCs, since you will still need to replace the bank pretty frequently, likely under 5 years.
Trikebubble
Adventurer
I've been running the Deka Intimidator AGM batteries in my vehicles for a number of years now. They are excellent, never an issue ever with them.
EricoMerico
New member
I'm looking to build a battery bank for an off grid setup. Do you have any brands or specific batteries to recommend that are the best bang for your buck?