Air conditioning without a generator

[adam88]

That energy density looks borderline unbelievable. Its almost 4x the total energy of my bank and less than half the weight and size. Not that I'm doubting you, that's just a huge difference, and Victrons are pretty much top of the line when it comes to lithium arrays for mobile applications. We are currently disconnecting our home and work shop from the grid and had been planning on the simpliphi, but I'll have to give these a closer look for that application.

Have you delved into their rating for off-road use? Looking that installation video, it seems they might be a riskier proposition, just eyeing the way that circuit board is laid out up top.

-S

Yes, the LG Chem batteries are freaking outstanding. They are amazing technology, basically similar to what is being used in cars. Well, actually, the same exact thing. GM uses the LG Chem in their Chevy Volt.

Basically, here's what I gathered:

Lifeline AGM's = 10 watts per usable pound (50% discharge)
Vitron Lithium LifePO4 = 27 watts per usable lb in weight (assuming 80% discharge).
LG Chem RESU = 47 watts per usable lb (assuming 80% discharge)

These are based on the largest specs available. Keep in mind, one of the reasons why LG Chem is so efficient is because of the size. It is a 9.8KwH battery all bundled into one. So no separate battery systems ect. But that being said, even if I compare the LG Chem 3.3kWh to the Victron 3.8KwH, the LG Chem still has 39 watts per LB, where as the victron has 27.

Move over victron

 

[adam88]

Single AC unit, dcpowersales (dc powered air conditioning unit.. kolari 12v or 24v)no inverter needed... plus 1k amp hrs(or 500@24v) lion batteries.. about $12k.. add as many solar panels as you can fit.. they are cheap (renegy)... Either way, dedicate an alternator to charging your camper battery system...

1000 amp hrs lion $8500
Kolari dc air conditioner - $2850
High current alternator $300-1500
A few solar panels and controller - $600-1200

Just start the engine for an HR or 2 per day or get a cheap Honda 2000 gen... But you don't have to get a gen... But you will need to start some engine to help recharge if you plan on running the AC all the time.. solar alone won't keep up

Hi David,

Yes, I am very lucky to have DCPOWERSALES right next door to me literally, 2 minute drive away here in Surrey BC. The Kolari DC air conditioner is variable speed. The things I don't like about it are that it is roof mount, which may be good for some people but I am not a big fan. But the primary reason I cant consider it is because it is not a reverse cycle heat pump, it is just an air conditioner. The future is electric!!! And I want to take advantage of FREE heat from a heat pump (thanks to solar and my alternators). Heat pumps are very efficient. I wonder if the Kolari can have a heat pump option???

 

[adam88]

Please explain.. when you say a heat pump.. do you mean supply heat via electric?

A heat pump is an air conditioner that can also work in reverse to act as a heater.

An air conditioner pulls hot air from inside and sends it outside. But if you reverse the cycle, then you can pull hot air from outside to the inside. Makes sense right?

Air conditioner = cooling only
Heat pump = cooling and heating

 

[PhulesAU]

Air conditioners do not "pull" heat from anywhere.

 

[adam88]

Air conditioners do not "pull" heat from anywhere.

How else would the heat be removed from a room if it wasn't pulled out by an air conditioner? Or is this just your way of saying you didn't like my use of the word "pull" and to let the world know that you would have preferred if I had gone into greater detail about how an air conditioner works and used better terminology? lol

 

[dwh]

Extracts? Removes? Relocates? Transfers?

Meh. Pulls. Works for me.

(And I do understand how energy flows from hot to cold.)

Though, to be fair to the picky guy, an air conditioner doesn't "pull hot air from inside and sends it outside". It just pulls the heat out of the air and sends the heat outside. The inside air stays inside. Gotcha.

 

[Pntyrmvr]

An air conditioner is a heat pump. It takes heat from the interior and pumps it to the exterior. Reverse the process, which some units can, and you take exterior heat, even in cooler temps, and move it inside.


"Talk is cheap. Whiskey costs money."

 

[adam88]

So if it was very cold outside, would there be any heat to "pull"?

Yes. Fujitsu and Mitsubishi mini split heat pumps can "pull" heat from the outside up to -25 degrees Celsius. The efficiency goes way down at these temperatures, however it still has a COP of more than 1, which means even at -25 degrees, the heat pump uses less electricity than a standard electrical heater.
.
As temperatures rise, it becomes far more efficient. COP of 5 or more if possible at times, which means 5 times more energy efficient than normal electrical.
.
In other words... 50w bulb puts out 50w of heat. But you could put out 50w of heat using only 10w of power from a heat pump. This is because it is cheaper to transfer heat than it is to create it.
.
Geothermal heat pumps work year-round because pipes are buried deep in the ground where the temperature never changes much, so you can get near perfect efficiency year round
.
PS - If my terminology offended anyone here, please see this video:
.

 

[adam88]

Haha, good one, he has a bunch of funny videos...

So back to the heat pump... I live in Montana where, well I have been in -60 degree storms, in my rig... and I survived... not the rig listed above, actually an earthroamer... and I learned a few things.. somewhere around -20 ish and below... your batteries no longer hold a charge... they just don't function... and during that I was using a diesel espar heater... and basically never slept, since I was scared to death that the heater would shut down due to fuel gelling... and that anti Gel additive only works so far down... but in reality, I left the engine running all night, batteries registered zero, espar ran all night and we didn't die... yay..

Sounds like the heat pump will only work heat for normal cold, but not Montana cold....also, can an alternator run the heat pump if the batteries are suffering due to cold... depends on how large the draw...

I will say, my batteries in the van are mounted inside and the earthroamer, they were basically outside... but it doesn't solve the problem that below -25 the heat pump can't keep up with demand...

What do you think?

A heat pump will not work efficiently below temperatures of -15 F (-25 C). If you camp in temperatures below that then a heat pump is not a good solution. That's basically your answer.

 

[jaross]

Anyone try the Neva Cooling system? I am pretty close to pulling the trigger! Is it just a fancy roof-mount swamp cooler?

 

[Haf-E]

Yep... just a fancy swamp cooler.

 

[aernan]

Yes, the LG Chem batteries are freaking outstanding. They are amazing technology, basically similar to what is being used in cars. Well, actually, the same exact thing. GM uses the LG Chem in their Chevy Volt.

Basically, here's what I gathered:

Lifeline AGM's = 10 watts per usable pound (50% discharge)
Vitron Lithium LifePO4 = 27 watts per usable lb in weight (assuming 80% discharge).
LG Chem RESU = 47 watts per usable lb (assuming 80% discharge)

These are based on the largest specs available. Keep in mind, one of the reasons why LG Chem is so efficient is because of the size. It is a 9.8KwH battery all bundled into one. So no separate battery systems ect. But that being said, even if I compare the LG Chem 3.3kWh to the Victron 3.8KwH, the LG Chem still has 39 watts per LB, where as the victron has 27.

Move over victron

Can you tell me more about the LG Chem RESU? Where can I source them?

 

[S2DM]

Can you tell me more about the LG Chem RESU? Where can I source them?

I'd be extremely hesitant to put this in a vehicle if LG doesnt certify them for the purpose. When you physically handle a victron, you can tell they are specifically designed for marine applications, getting pounded in the surf etc. I'm not saying Victron is the best, they are super heavy, but they are purpose engineered for rugged travel. I wouldn't put a battery with this type of tech in an environment it wasn't designed for. Maybe in a mobile semi unit etc, but not in an overlanding rig.

 

[aernan]

I'd be extremely hesitant to put this in a vehicle if LG doesnt certify them for the purpose. When you physically handle a victron, you can tell they are specifically designed for marine applications, getting pounded in the surf etc. I'm not saying Victron is the best, they are super heavy, but they are purpose engineered for rugged travel. I wouldn't put a battery with this type of tech in an environment it wasn't designed for. Maybe in a mobile semi unit etc, but not in an overlanding rig.

Are you suggesting that an overlanding rig would subject the battery to more stress than a marine application?

 

[S2DM]

Nope. What I'm suggesting is overlanding or marine would both subject the battery to exponentially more stress than a residential application, which is what the LG is designed for. I would strongly recommend against putting a residential battery and bms system which is not designed for bouncing around in a mobile environment.


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