Alignment

[Brian McVickers]

Ho often or when should you get an alignment on an all-time 4-wheel drive, solid axle vehicle?

What is an alignment, what adjustments are made / what do they do?
I have heard that there are two or three adjustments made.

Where do you get them done?

What is a reasonable or normal cost for an alignment?

Thanks! :smiley_drive:

 

[HenryJ]

It may depend upon your driving conditions. My tire shop guru recommends about every third tire rotation. About 15,000-20,000 miles , or annually.

An alignment sets the camber, caster and toe usually. Thrust angles may be taken into consideration, but are rarely corrected if minimal.

Camber is top in or out. Caster is the vertical line of the balljoints or king pin and its angle forward or rearward. Toe is the plane of the tires. Toe in they point together, toe out they point apart at the front.

Many tire shops have attached alignment shops. There are some specialty shops that do brakes and alignments.

In my town an alignment runs around $50. Well worth it for protecting the investment I have made in tires.

If you notice any irregular wear patterns, an alignment would be a good idea. Also after replacement of any suspension or steering components.

 

[BajaTaco]

I don't think the full time 4wd aspect has any bearing on alignment requirements (unless maybe the rear wheels actually have a steering mechanism for cornering).

An alignment adjusts the caster, camber, the toe position of the wheels.

An alignment should be done whenever you change something that might affect the geometry of the steering of the vehicle. So if you lift/lower the suspension, change out the steering components, or change to a different size of wheel/tire combination, relocate the front axle, etc. OR if you happen to "knock" the vehicle out of alignment due to some kind of sudden impact. Sypmtoms can be the vehicle not tracking straight when you let go of the steering wheel on a level road surface and feel the steering pull to one side or the other.

If your vehicle tracks straight, and you haven't made any mechanical changes, and your tires are wearing evenly, I don't see any reason to really get one.

My most recent alignment cost $52.

[EDIT] LOL, Henry beat me to it.

[EDIT #2] Sorry, forgot to answer a question. There are generally shops that specifically do alignments, and often that are also doing brake service. (e.g "XYZ Alignment & Brake service") I think the best bet is to check with friends to see if they have any luck with a particular shop in your locale. Like any profession, there seems to be good ones and bad ones.

 

[ZooJunkie]

I do all my alignments myself. Because I use to do a lot of track driving in my Coupe, I usually did 2-3 alignments in a year.

You can adjust the following:
toe
camber
caster

Toe alignment: As stated above is your tires pointing in towards the front of the car or pointing towards the rear of the car.
Toe-in alignment helps with high speed stability, in general. Toe-out alignment is generally better for high speed turning and turn in ability. Careful with toe-out adjustment, disturbing one side of the wheel with toe-out will cause the vehicle to describe a turn as the undisturbed wheel is pointing outwards.

Camber: I like to think of camber as to maximizing tire contact. If you are doing a lot of high speed turning a negative camber is better to maximize tire contact in a turn in. If the suspension is always flexed and low speed, a more positive camber could help maximize tire contact with the ground.

caster: think of this as your car returning back to driving straight when you let go of the steering wheel after making a turn. Caster is generally not adjusted because it's keeps your vehicle traveling in a straight line. If you mess with this, your car may not return to a straight line course!!

For most off road vehicles, I think a positive camber of +0.5-1.0 camber is great for tire contact.

For live axle, you will need to align the axle to the center of the vehicle. From this point on, you can adjust the camber. Toe adjustment is not available for live axle rears. However, most are designed with a little bit of toe-in and -1 degree to 0 camber.

If you like to do your own alignment, it's very easy, just a bit time consuming. You will only need to buy one tool. A tool to measure camber/caster.

 

[goodtimes]

You mention a strait axle vehicle. Unlike IFS, there is very little adjustability on strait axles. You have control over the toe-in via the tie-rod and possibly the drag link (depending on steering system design). Some vehicles there is some adjustability in the castor, usually very little, and it is pretty rare that the castor needs to be set. If it does, it is accomplished with eccentric washers on the lower link captures, or by changing the length of the upper links in the case of aftermarket suspension systems. There are only a handful of axles that give you any adjustability of the camber. If yours does, it is via a set of ball joint shims, or offset ball joints.

On 99% of strait axle vehicles, the only thing you need to set is the toe-in. I do this with a tape measure in my garage, once every couple months.

 

[ZooJunkie]

Ah thanks GT! Yes, some live axle will allow toe adjustment...but only for the front axle, most rear axle will have very little adjustment.

 

[bigreen505]

Ask around to find out whether the Firestone shops in your area are any good or not. They offer a lifetime alignment for $140, which could be a good way to go.

 

[Brian McVickers]

Once again, I have been Educated!

Thanks everyone.

I have not had an alignment done in the past year but the vehicle tracks straight and a after a recent tire rotation the tire experts said everything looked to be wearing evenly.

I think what made me think of it is a very slight wiggle in the steering wheel up around 70 mph. It is ever so slight, but enough for your arm to feel it after long highway miles, could it be wheel balance?

 

[goodtimes]

Any "wobble" you feel in the steering wheel at that speed is likely a balance issue (tire, driveshaft, etc). Alignment related "wobble" issues are *usually* seen at much lower speeds, and tend to be violent (as in your life flashes before your eyes, and you think you are going to crash and die kind of violent).

If the tire wear is good, then both the toe and camber is good, but castor could be out. This doesn't tend to cause the problem you describe though, generally having the castor out will cause the wheel to either not want to return to center, or cause excessive return to center, and the handling problems associated with it.

 

[david despain]

d2 4 U too?

im guessing this is for the disco II. all you get to play with is front toe i think. castor is fixed with hub housing/bearing/spindle assembly and set by the front radius arms. so if its lifted it will be off slightly. most agree that with an OME lift you wont be too tall to worry about it though. only way to change it is with cut and rewelded radius arms and then you have to address your pinion angle. if you are not having major drivability issues i wouldnt worry about castor or camber. i think the camber is fixed as well but maybe there is some adjustment. is your steering damper original? if so here is a good replacement for it, scroll about half way down for the d2 one. https://www.expeditionexchange.com/ome/indexshocks.htm how many miles are on it? it may be time to start thinking about replacing the bushings in the trac bar and radius arms etc. as well as shocks if they are original as well.

are you on discoweb? www.discoweb.org there is some good info there but you have to wade through a lot of mis-information, immature bickering and petty flame wars to find it. i think scott may have met some of the utah d-webbers in moab last week. just dont let them know about ExPo or this site just wont be the same. :smilies27

 

[Brian McVickers]

Yep - DII
66K miles
OME HD shocks probably about 60K old
Original OEM steering stabalizer

I'ts not a bad wabble at all, hardly noticeable.
I just got it back from the shop and I tend to be hypersensitive for the first week of driving it after anybody touches her. Even it its just a car wash!

Thanks for the info,

Oh and yes I am very familiar with Dweb. I visit to get information but I try not to get sucked into the threads there, pretty amazine how that site has evolved, or should I say regressed!

 

[david despain]

i dont know about evloved or regressed just different. my post count doesnt reflect it but i have been watching that board for about 5 years, its an interesting of ideas that get brought up, popularized, bashed, banned by popular opion, then get brought up and "invented" by a new generation of LR owners and cycle starts all over again. the same thing happens with the types of people and personalities as well. but in there somewhere is lots of good info. i have been helped out by a few folks that really do know their stuff and want to help. but now i spend lots more time reading all i can here and dreaming. what year is your disco? mines a 2000 and i got the ok to spend money on it today :wings: of course its abs sensors, a maf sensor and oil change only ( the dash looks like a christmas tree!)

 

[Brian McVickers]

2001 SE7 - With the 6th and 7th seats removed to make more space for storage!

 

[Robthebrit]

Like GT says most solid axles are not adjustable in the way IFS sytems are. On my mog you can only adjust the toe in/out by screwing the end of the tie rod/drag link. For a mog the parts are so big, once its set it really cannot move unless you start bending metal, caster and camber are set by the castings and frame mounts.

Other places to check if you are getting wobble, particually in a narrow band of speeds and assuming the tires are good, is the rubber bushings on the connections of the tie rods/drag links. If these are worn out there is usually a little bit of play in the wheel.

Rob

 

[gjackson]

As has been said by others above, the only adjustments you can do on the Rover non-IFS front is the toe. However, you can get wobble from worn radius arm bushings and worn panhard rod bushings. Another common cause of the "death wobble" is a loose panhard rod, usually at the axle end. Bolt there is 22mm and needs to be pretty tight.

A small wobble at 70 is most likely balance as GT said. Loose panhard rod will give the "AAAAK I'M GOING TO DIE!!!!!!" wobble usually when you hit a bump mid-corner. Worn radius arm bushings will give queer tire wear.

cheers