Alternative Fuels & Better Fuel Mileage

nctacoma

Observer
For a really good quality Wvo system check out www.biofueltechnologies.com
I have had their systems in 2 ford trucks and it does work really well. I put over 70,000 miles on vegetable oil fuels. It works really well in the cold winter temps as well because it is a separate heated two tank system. I used one truck to plow snow for the past couple of years and lots of trips to much colder temps than we have and the system worked great.
 

Darwin

Explorer
If I didnt operate my diesel truck in the winter so much, I would be all over biodiesel.

It is simply too much hassle when the temps drop though.

Diesel barely wants to flow in the temps we see every year
That is why I like SVO. The other day it was 3 degrees out and it worked fine. My SVO temps were in the 160 to 170's.
 

IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
SVO will NOT flow without electric aids.

It still requires multiple heaters, and refueling in sub freezing temps posses problems.

You would have to store your spare fuel cans in a heater compartment.

Not worth it in a cold climate IMO.
 

Silverado

Adventurer
wouldn't you have a block heater plugged in @ temps biodiesel has problems? Why not run another cord to a heater for the Bio tank? Most people start on diesel and switch over to Bio after warmup anyways:coffee:
 

Darwin

Explorer
SVO will NOT flow without electric aids.
My system flows just fine, like I said in sub freezing conditions and uses no electric aids what so ever. Even the valves are manually operated.

It still requires multiple heaters, and refueling in sub freezing temps posses problems.
I still only use coolant to heat the oil. You are right refueling can be much harder depending on the situation. If it's stored in a heated garage that helps, but as long as you have a pump capable of moving cold oil like a heavy duty gear pump for example, it is possible to do.

You would have to store your spare fuel cans in a heater compartment.

Not worth it in a cold climate IMO.
I have a 75 gallon tank that gives me a range of over 1500 miles. If going farther i can put 30 gallon drums in the back.

It works well for me, but it is by far not easy. It's a dirty mess to deal with. I think it is much harder than what most people think who are getting started with it.
 

Darwin

Explorer
wouldn't you have a block heater plugged in @ temps biodiesel has problems? Why not run another cord to a heater for the Bio tank? Most people start on diesel and switch over to Bio after warmup anyways
I think you are confusing biodiesel with SVO (straight vegetable oil). Even if you plugged into some sort of tank heater you still have the fuel lines with gelled fuel, along with the fuel filter which will also be clogged. This is one reason why some choose SVO over biodiesel.
 

Rot Box

Explorer
I don't know whether this thread gets me excited or depressed :bike_rider:

I ran bio a lot in my last 6.5TD GM a few years back but that became no longer available around here and at the time it was only a few cents cheaper anyway. After that I didn't complain much because my last Cummins would clear 23mpg and that made it okay as much as I drove it. Now that I have a fuel hog I'm starting to worry about it again--over $3 per gallon really makes me uncomfortable. I found a couple gallons of filtered WMO (waste motor oil) really perks up the ol' IDI but I'll really need a source before that becomes cost effective...

Either way it is nice to have options when push comes to shove :coffeedrink:
 

IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
My system flows just fine, like I said in sub freezing conditions and uses no electric aids what so ever. Even the valves are manually operated.

From what Ive read, SVO has a "freeze point" of -10 degrees C. Thats what, 14 or 15 degrees F?

Im sure it starts gelling well before that.

Ive already seen -10F this winter.

Just imagine a winter expedition, getting up in the morning and trying to start a diesel running SVO, when the temps are at ten below.

Not going to happen, unless you have some sort of heating aid to keep your fuel from gelling.
 

Darwin

Explorer
From what Ive read, SVO has a "freeze point" of -10 degrees C. Thats what, 14 or 15 degrees F?

Im sure it starts gelling well before that.
That is correct.

Ive already seen -10F this winter.
Same here. The truck started just fine. It does take a few more miles to reach operating temperature before you can switch over but I have found a 'winter front' helps.

Just imagine a winter expedition, getting up in the morning and trying to start a diesel running SVO, when the temps are at ten below.
I have been doing that all winter, off course I would never start on SVO though, even if it was 100 degrees out. I always start on diesel.

Not going to happen, unless you have some sort of heating aid to keep your fuel from gelling.
I use coolant to heat it, works great, even when it's 10 below out.
 
If I didnt operate my diesel truck in the winter so much, I would be all over biodiesel.

It is simply too much hassle when the temps drop though.

Diesel barely wants to flow in the temps we see every year. :Wow1:

Your fuel suppliers are not ordering the correct fuel. I have experienced a fuel gel-up exactly once in 32 years in Alaska. I purchased fuel from a low volume station owned by people of (unspecified, foreign) parsimonious nature and had to run 1/3 gasoline in my M37 for the remainder of a tank.
Normally stations in Alaska run Jet A (aka #1 fuel) in the winter which gels at ~-45F.; temps not seen in this part of the state.
Find a supplier that will buy the correct fuel.
Although I agree biodiesel is not for cold climates.

Charlie
 

IHDiesel73L

Adventurer
Your fuel suppliers are not ordering the correct fuel. I have experienced a fuel gel-up exactly once in 32 years in Alaska. I purchased fuel from a low volume station owned by people of (unspecified, foreign) parsimonious nature and had to run 1/3 gasoline in my M37 for the remainder of a tank.
Normally stations in Alaska run Jet A (aka #1 fuel) in the winter which gels at ~-45F.; temps not seen in this part of the state.
Find a supplier that will buy the correct fuel.
Although I agree biodiesel is not for cold climates.

The following is a copy of the post I put up in the Fireside Chat forum regarding Terrainist's (not Terrainer-sorry :sombrero:) request that I talk about my particular SVO (not biodiesel) fuel system. It addresses the concerns listed here regarding SVO and cold temperatures:

At the suggestion of Terrainer I thought I would post some information about my experience as well as some general information that would be of interest to others who might be thinking of doing the same thing. Around 2005 while I was still in college, I heard that diesel engines could run on vegetable oils, so I started searching on the internet. One of the first places I found that was a wealth of information was this:

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s=447609751

Most of you have probably heard of biodiesel, the manufacture and use of which is discussed on the abovementioned forum, but I actually don't use biodiesel-my vehicle has been modified to be able to burn straight vegetable oil, commonly referred to as SVO. Biodiesel is vegetable oil that has been undergone a chemical change in order to remove the glycerin in the oil which makes it less viscous. Viscosity of the fuel in a diesel engine is extremely important. Fuel that is too viscous will not properly atomize and ignite, which ultimately will foul the injector and cause deposits in the cylinder itself. Straight vegetable oil is too viscous to be used as fuel at room temperature, so you have two choices-either change the fuel by chemically making it less viscous (making biodiesel), or by doing something a bit more simple-heating it to at least 160 degrees. Biodiesel does have it's advantages, because it is essentially just like diesel fuel-it can be used in any diesel vehicle without any modification to the vehicle, but it requires the use of chemicals (lye and methanol) that must be purchased, and it the process of producing it can be complicated. That being said, a visit to the abovementioned forum will tell you everything you need to know about making biodiesel.

As I said before I have converted my truck so that it can burn SVO. Basically this consists of a secondary fuel system with a separate tank, filter, and pump that stores and feeds the oil to the truck when needed. The system also contains a heat exchanger which uses heat from the truck's cooling system to bring the oil up to 160 degrees prior to it reaching the injectors. At 160 degrees the oil has a the same viscosity as diesel fuel and will atomize and burn properly. This is extremely important, because even if the oil is properly filtered and is free of water, if cold oil is injected into the cylinder it can still cause damage. This is why a two tank system is critical to using SVO as fuel. The complexity and sophistication of systems vary, but I'll just detail how mine works since that's what I'm most familiar with:

Starting: The truck starts on diesel fuel as it normally would, as diesel fuel is suitable for starting at any temperature. As the truck warms up, two sensors monitor the temperature of the oil in the secondary tank and the engine temperature.

Switching to vegetable oil: Once both pre-set temperatures are reached, the SVO pump activates, drawing oil from the secondary oil tank through the heat exchanger, and into each bank of cylinders. At this point the stock diesel pump shuts off as it is no longer needed.

Running on vegetable oil: The system continues to monitor for proper temperatures and SVO fuel pressure. If SVO fuel pressure drops (ie: you take a hard turn and the fuel pickup is starved or you run out of fuel) the diesel pump kicks in-once SVO pressure is restored it turns off again. The transition takes a fraction of a second and is completely seamless.

Shutting down: Running on SVO has one caveat-the lines must be completely purged of SVO when the truck is shut off, because leaving SVO in the lines to cool would cause problems starting later, and ultimately engine damage. The system I use takes care of this by using a timer which begins when the truck is turned off via the key. After turning the key to the "off" position and removing it the truck starts a purge cycle-the SVO pump shuts off and the diesel pump fills the lines with diesel fuel, ensuring a problem free start later on.


The company that manufactures my system used to be called Dino Fuel Alternatives, but they were bought out by another company called BioFuels Technologies-they still manufacture systems for the 7.3L and 6.0L Powerstroke diesels. I believe they have also started manufacturing a "generic" system that can be adapted to other uses as well. Check out their website here:

http://www.biofuelstechnologies.com/

In addition to BioFuels Technologies (who mainly concentrate on Powerstrokes) there are other companies out there, but doing your homework and paying attention to quality is important. There are also a lot of inferior kit makers out there looking to make a quick buck-there were TONS of them on the market when diesel hit $5.00 a gallon two years ago. Also, the Infopop Biodiesel and SVO forums are a wealth information on everything from DIY conversions of all types of vehicles, sourcing, collecting, and filtering free waste oil from restaurants, and lots of other topics. That should answer a lot of the questions about this subject, but I'm happy to answer any others that come up.

Obviously a two tank system eliminates the problem of SVO solidifying as the waste heat from the engine coolant provides more than enough BTUs in pretty much any temperature to heat it enough for use as fuel, but transferring fuel could still be an issue. I use a hand pump to transfer SVO from a barrel into my 60 gallon fuel tank, but I realize that would probably be difficult if not impossible in -10 degree F temperatures. I wonder if a 75/25 or 50/50 SVO/winterized diesel mix would help? Come to think of it I've heard of folks collecting oil from dumpsters in sub-zero temperatures using cheap gas powered pumps from Harbor Freight-apparently they'll move oil so thick that it extrudes out the end of the hose. Perhaps one of those mounted on top of a drum would be a solution?
 
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IHDiesel73L

Adventurer
Thanks for bringing that over IHDiesel73L !!

No problem-I would have brought it over sooner except I was sidelined (ironically) by a near fire in my garage that stemmed from filtering SVO for fuel. One of my pumps (unbeknownst to me) did not have overload protection and seized. I happened to smell burning while I was in the kitchen (adjacent to the garage) and went out to see what was going on. Though the circuit breaker had tripped the power wire for the motor had gotten hot enough to burn the casing off. Luckily there was nothing around for it to ignite, but I'd hate to see what could have happened if I hadn't come in when I did. Anyway, it looks like this will be an interesting thread!
 

lstzephyr

wanderer
This is something I'm very interested in as well.

I would like to hear of others expierence with waste motor oil. I have something like 4-10 gallons on hand at any given time because of oil changes on all the vehicles at my house. I've heard I can just dump it in using a paint strainer to filter it. All of my wmo is pretty clean as I dump it directly from the vehicle into gallon containers. Any thoughts on that?

I did just get rid of 4 gallons though, bummer.
 

IHDiesel73L

Adventurer
I've heard I can just dump it in using a paint strainer to filter it. All of my wmo is pretty clean as I dump it directly from the vehicle into gallon containers. Any thoughts on that?

Burning oils of any kind usually requires heat because they are thicker than diesel fuel (more viscous) and will not atomize well at low temperatures. Waste motor oil, waste automatic transmission fluid, gear oils, etc...are all too thick without first being heated. Also, waste oils must be well filtered (its going to take more than a paint strainer) so as to avoid engine problems.
 

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