Alternator issue..1992 E-350 ambo

[tgreening]

I think the alternator in my ambo is headed south. The voltage doesn't remain steady anymore and pulses almost constantly. My local alternator shop is trying to convert me over to a 130 amp 3g model @130amps vs the 165amp Leece-Neville in there now. Apparently the Leece is fairly expensive to rebuild. I agreed to it, and I'm supposed to head in in the morning to have it put in, but I'm having 2nd thoughts. They acknowledge that the high output is less on the 3G but that it will have better performance at idle. I only have their word to go on that since I'm not an alternator guru. The 3G is definitely cheaper, and a faster fix, but I'm still not sure I want to go that way.

I found this replacement online http://www.theautopartsshop.com/alternator/fee7767.html but I don't know anything about this brand. There are two options for this part, internal or external regulator, and I don't know which one my ambo would have without pulling it. Anyone have an ironclad idea?

Any viable options for a replacement other than what I've mentioned?

 

[dar395]

Online Source

I'd look at Rockauto.com first, they stand behind there items and is some cases 15-20% of my local guy's, you might become a :drool:fan as I am.

 

[dwh]

If it's external regulator, then you should be able to find the regulator bolted to the sheet metal under the hood somewhere. You should be able to trace the wiring without pulling the alternator. Normally for that year, I'd say it would be internal regulator - but it's an ambulance so who knows what they did.

Personally, I'd probably go with the 3g. Alternators wear out and need to be replaced, so I would want the easiest to find and replace. The difference between 130a and 165a only matters if you actually have to supply those sorts of loads. On a working ambulance, you might - on an RV, probably not.

And even if you did need more power, they can build the large case version of the 3g into a BigAssMother(tm) alternator - and if your truck is already converted to 3g...:

http://alternatorparts.com/ford-3g.html

 

[Ozrockrat]

Not being able to see what ambo you have I will throw something out there in case it is a E series Ford. Check with the ford guys and see if your rig is able to have the dual alternators installed. If so go with the biggest standard ford one you can buy for the current location and then retro fit a 2nd one if you need the extra capacity. And yes Rockauto is a go to place to get any parts.

 

[Ozrockrat]

Also if you happen to be a bit adventurous there is probably only $30 worth of parts required to rebuild your alt. and it's not rocket science to strip them down and rebuild. Only areas of caution are be very careful how you take the belt off. When you spin the belt tensioner you can get the ratchet into the fan blades and they are expensive to replace (don't ask where that advice comes from ). The only special tools will be the pullers for the pulley and getting the bearings off the shaft. It may also be possible to get to the brushes in situ but you are still better to remove it and throw a set of bearings and check the slip rings at the same time.

Did they check the regulator (if it's external which I believe the Leece Neville will be) before suggesting throwing a new alt in? It may not be the alternator at all.

Again this may all be BS because I have never worked on a 92 ambo or van. All mine have been power strokes. So this advice is probably worth what you paid for it.

 

[Bikersmurf]

I've rebuilt several alternators over the years and they're not that hard. That said, the Mitsubishi alternator in my Ambo was going to need a minimum of $200 of parts, and I lucked out and found a new one for $300.

I've got a large bodied 120 A alternator in my Landcruiser and have never been wanting for more. I agree that the Idle output is far more important than peak... Some alternators are far overrated, with peak outputs that they can only put out for a 10% duty cycle.

 

[spencyg]

I'd be a second vote for the 3G alternator. You can find them anywhere, they are cheap, and they have a very high amperage output right at idle which allows you to do meaningful battery charging without needing to be going down the road. My '86 externally regulated 2G alternator is rated at 70A and only puts out 25 at idle. A 130A 3G will put out 80 amps at idle which is probably more than your 165A unit is currently doing.

SG

 

[derjack]

I think the alternator in my ambo is headed south. The voltage doesn't remain steady anymore and pulses almost constantly. My local alternator shop is trying to convert me over to a 130 amp 3g model @130amps vs the 165amp Leece-Neville in there now. Apparently the Leece is fairly expensive to rebuild. I agreed to it, and I'm supposed to head in in the morning to have it put in, but I'm having 2nd thoughts. They acknowledge that the high output is less on the 3G but that it will have better performance at idle. I only have their word to go on that since I'm not an alternator guru. The 3G is definitely cheaper, and a faster fix, but I'm still not sure I want to go that way.

I found this replacement online http://www.theautopartsshop.com/alternator/fee7767.html but I don't know anything about this brand. There are two options for this part, internal or external regulator, and I don't know which one my ambo would have without pulling it. Anyone have an ironclad idea?

Any viable options for a replacement other than what I've mentioned?

Hi,

I got the same one in my Truck, the Leece-Neville one. Looks the same as in the link you posted.

Regulator: Mine has a regulator at the back. It is the 2" wide small thing at the back of the Alternator.

130 vs 165 Amps: It´s not that simple like bigger is better! If you really want to make sure you get the most out of it you need to know in wich rpm area each alternator turns out as most efficient! Thats not necessarily the highest rpm. You see on an diesel engine this should be different to an gas one. A city driven vehicle needs something different to an highway rig (+ gearing etc.)
These 35 Amps will not make much difference.

 

[tgreening]

I yield to those more knowledgable than I. Waiting on the install as we speak.

 

[tgreening]

Great caesars ghost what an ordeal that was! 7.5 hrs of standing around with my thumb up my ******** while they swapped alternators. I made an appointment (told them I'd wait for it) so they could get right on it. Two hours after my time they finally start, and then 5.5 hrs to actually get it done, and then they charged me "only" 4 hrs labor because they felt bad. Thanks.

It was supposed to be "3G drops right in, adapt some plugs, put on the pulley, done." How much time could that possibly take?

Plus side is I have a nice steady output again, but next time I'll just do it myself.

 

[Bikersmurf]

If your shop rates are anything like ours, you could have installed a Mitsubishi 215 amp alternator for less... Gotta hate shop rates.

I'm glad it's working, but that's at least twice as long as a plug and play alternator should have taken. I had mine shoehorned in and it took less than 2 hours... And it's a 32 lb monster that barely fits in the engine bay on top of a 7.3 PSD.

 

[tgreening]

If your shop rates are anything like ours, you could have installed a Mitsubishi 215 amp alternator for less... Gotta hate shop rates.

I'm glad it's working, but that's at least twice as long as a plug and play alternator should have taken. I had mine shoehorned in and it took less than 2 hours... And it's a 32 lb monster that barely fits in the engine bay on top of a 7.3 PSD.

Fifty bucks /hr, which isn't that bad as far as shop rates go, but the time to install was totally ridiculous. I kid you not, one time I R&R'd a 258 six cylinder in an old CJ-7, by my self, in 45 minutes flat. Granted I'd already done it once that day taking quite a bit longer, so all the tools and stuff were already right there, but that's gotta be some kind of solo record. Piece of crap "rebuilt" engine I put in was worse than the one I'd just pulled, and the wifey had to get to work.

Anyway, it's all done now except the pishin and moanin, so I guess I'll just get on with life.

 

[Bikersmurf]

I agree. Enjoy.

$50/hr is pretty good. Most shops here are $100/hour or more.

 

[Shocker]

So, how is it working? I have a LN unit in VanDOOM that is getting replaced with a 3G, but mine is older. Also, I needed to swap over to the Poly Vee belt system to make sure no slippage. Took forever to find a complete set of van pulley brackets.

 

[tgreening]

So, how is it working? I have a LN unit in VanDOOM that is getting replaced with a 3G, but mine is older. Also, I needed to swap over to the Poly Vee belt system to make sure no slippage. Took forever to find a complete set of van pulley brackets.

Working great so far. Voltage is rock solid. One thing I haven't done yet is really load it up at idle to see how it does. The Leece-Neville struggled at idle. If I fired up all the lights, flashers, etc it couldn't keep up even at high idle.

My concern is when I start adding batteries. Right now it has to service two big honkin truck batteries + 1 standard run-of-the-mill starting type battery that was added by the PO as the house battery. Once I get my conversion done and the box laid out the way I want it I plan to dump the little battery and replace it with at least two much bigger. I'm not up on rv type battery setups though. Right now all the batteries are tied together most of the time. There is a big switch in the box I can use to isolate one bank from the other but it isn't seeing much use.

From my 4-wheeling days I always operated under the idea that it was a bad idea to mix battery types when they would be tied together under the same charging system. Right now I have mixed batteries, and I'm unsure what to change to when I lose the little battery. Two more truck batteries just like what's in there now, or two 12V deep cycles, or two 6v golf cart batteries, or...what?

Anyway, when 2 big and 1 little becomes 4 big, I'm not sure how the 135 amp will keep up. Good news is they make some pretty beefy aftermarket 3g alternators and now they should just drop in.

Not sure I'm following you on the belts. Are you converting from the multiple v-belts to a single serpentine, or the other way 'round, or what?

I have the multiple Vs and there is a single belt driving the alternator, with another belt going from the alternator to the vacuum pump. So far I haven't had any slippage issues that I know of.