AM General announces details about HumVee kit

[haven]

http://www.genuinehumveekit.com/

AM General, manufacturer of the military HumVee, will make a kit version for civilian sales. The cost of the kit will start at $60K. Portal axles are included in the base price. Options include locking differentials front and rear, Hutchinson beadlock rims, and CTIS. The buyer has to provide the engine and transmission, plus parts to connect the drivetrain to the chassis. Delivery is expected in Spring 2013. A deposit of 10% will hold your place in line.

So what's this announcement doing here in the camper discussion area? The HumVee suspension provides a 4000 lb cargo capacity. The body of the HumVee is like a pickup truck. It could be modified to have the HumVee ambulance body, or to carry a slide in camper.

The HumVee will cost maybe $85K when you add options plus the engine and transmission of your choice. But the HumVee has far superior off-road capability, compared with $50K pickup trucks with similar carrying capacity (e.g., Ford F350 or Dodge Ram 3500). So the HumVee kit is worth thinking about if you're planning to build a light camper with significant go-anywhere capability.

How would you prepare a HumVee kit for your dream adventure travel?

 

[Dave Bennett]

The problem is maintenance. They are high maintenance machines IMO and that will get costly quick. Parts ain't cheap.

 

[Fresno]

The problem is maintenance. They are high maintenance machines IMO and that will get costly quick. Parts ain't cheap.

How many have you had? What years?

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

If I had the money that would make a nice project.

 

[Overland Hadley]

How many have you had? What years?

Dave has firsthand knowledge of military vehicles.

 

[Fresno]

Dave has firsthand knowledge of military vehicles.

Me too. A 98 and a 2000 on the cilivan side. Several in Iraq as well. Aside Tacomed's preference for Toyotas, I would like him to back up his statement with firsthand knowledge. I had no major problems in over a decade (except IED damage).

Parts expensive? GL sells complete engines, tires and any thing you want; starting at $150.

Blanket generalizations are not helpful.

 

[Dave Bennett]

What do I need to back up? I've been driving variants of the Hummer since 1987. I drove one from Kuwait to Baghdad, in combat with 1st Marine Division. Lets start with fuel consumption (theyre thirsty pigs) and then the fact that changes have been made over the years so your bargain parts from govt liquidations may/may not fit unless you know what to look for. Then we could talk about what a PITA the wheels are to deal with - not a problem if you're a motor T guy with a shop but most folks aint, and the care and feeding of all those CV's is not for the novice. GM powertrain and the damn thing is too wide for many trails too. It's an amazing machine, but far from perfect for what we do. In fact, I'd say it's foolish to take one out of the US - good luck with parts or trying to be incognito.

Hummers are a niche market, and an interesting enthusiast group much akin to Land Rover fanatics. Not for everyone. I've known a few folks who owned the civilian variants, they all got out of them for some of the reasons I stated above but mostly because the cost of long term ownership became a burden. BTW, Predator Offroad is right down the road from me.

Not looking to have an argument here, but I know what I know first hand and although it's a great machine if you can afford to own and operate one, its not for most folks and not ideal for overland travel.

And it's TACODOC not Tacomed

 

[Overland Hadley]

Blanket generalizations are not helpful.

Neither have your posts in this thread. But I digress.

I think Dave is spot on. It could be an interesting hobby vehicle, but that is about it. (And there is nothing wrong with taking a hobby vehicle on a camping trip.)

 

[Fresno]

What do I need to back up?

Lets start with fuel consumption (theyre thirsty pigs)

WRONG My 2000 is a daily driver gets 18-19 mpg. Not bad for a truck rated for a ton. Another daily driver documented his mileage with a Scan Gage.

Installed my Scan 2 Gage in the H1 this weekend and rode around the country roads near Uwarrie National Park. I never really got above 55 mph and was gentle on the throttle and the average mpg showed 19.9 miles to the gallon. Also the water temp never got above 172 degrees. The outside temp was around 50 degrees. My last trip to North Myrtle Beach with the cruise set on 55mph netted 17 mpg lightly loaded and ac off. I guess if you drive carefully and unload un necessary gear these trucks do pretty good .

bargain parts from govt liquidations may/may not fit unless you know what to look for.

MAYBE but the Hummer community is very helpful (humvee.net) Just ask, someone will find your part. However, again, two trucks and NO REPAIRS.

Then we could talk about what a PITA the wheels are to deal with - not a problem if you're a motor T guy with a shop but most folks aint, and

WRONG. New things out there. They call them "one piece wheels". Maybe you have seen them. Been out for 17 years for the H1.

the care and feeding of all those CV's is not for the novice.

WRONG. Don't you think after all these years I (or other H1 owners I ride with) would have had problems with the CVs? It could happen, anything can happen. But no issues I know of.

GM powertrain

WRONG (really?) GM powertrain parts are everywhere and cheap.

damn thing is too wide for many trails too.

WRONG. Hell, you're in the desert. Hummers are the King of the desert. I'm in the Sierra Nevadas. You think Hummers are "too wide". For what? I am part of our SAR unit and have searched some very rough terrain. Yes, I've been down some trails I couldn't get through. But, Jeeps and Toyotas could not get through either.

Unless you have experience that is current and Off Road, expect to be challenged on the facts.

And it's TACODOC not Tacomed

CORRECT

... But I digress.

CORRECT

 

[Dave Bennett]

Now now, no need to bloviate. It's obvious you're trolling for an argument here, anecdote vs anecdote is pointless.

But sure, drive one gingerly, and unloaded, on an expedition to Myrtle Beach and you'll get great mileage, but it's still a thirsty pig IMO especially loaded down.

Unless you have experience that is current and Off Road, expect to be challenged on the facts.

Well, the USMC still uses Hummers TODAY in some roles (there is no replacement for the M997 and M1035 yet), and I deployed overseas driving one Off Road through Djibouti and Oman in 2009. My opinion is as current and valid as anyones and I stand by my main point - it's a great machine if you can afford to own and operate one, but its not for most folks and not ideal for overland travel.

You think Hummers are "too wide". For what?

We could start with shelf roads, and then talk about what fun they are in traffic or in tight technical terrain. Smaller is always better IMO. Which is why the USMC went with the G-Wagen and some newer transportable variants for expeditionary use vice a stripped down Hummer.

60K and you get a pile of crates and assembly required and you get to cobble together your own powertrain and get it all up to snuff and legal in CA and everything? Sure sounds like fun if I had deep pockets and was retired with a big shop and nothing but time. As far as GM, you may like their junk but I don't. The GM propelled Hummers I drive are all dogs.

This is the expedition camper section so building that from crate status to "camper" is going to easily put you at six figures - heck even if I could do it for 80K I'd rather buy a Tiger and hit the road

This latest gig by AM General is nothing more than them trying to squeeze the last few dollars out of their existing tooling since DOD is seeking a replacement and they see their sugar daddy going away.

I wager we'll see very few, if any, of these kits built into campers and posted here on ExPo.

I may be wrong, but you ain't right. But I digress...

 

[Fresno]

No argument here TACODOC, just two guys that like off roading and camping having a debate on vehicles. My experience with military HMMWVs is from 2005-2007. To be honest very little off roading in convoys. Our units were heavy with gear and armor. Add to that the okie armor we added in 2006, they were pigs.

My current Hummer is light, turbo diesel, alloy one piece wheels and lockers. I will make a point to go one of your So Cal runs. You will be surprised how capable they are. Hummers vs Tacoma vs Jeep vs whatever? I suspect each has it's own strengths.

They are a few things I am impressed with.

CTIS. central tire inflation system. The ability to air down or up on the roll will spoil you. It is so effective you will question if you even need four wheel drive.

Low center of gravity and a wide stance. Yes sometimes I find myself in a narrow trail with rocks on the sides. But, routinely I find myself on very steep, off camber, loose ground. The low center gravity and wide stance is a safety issue with campers.

Cheap campers. You do not have to try to hard to get the HMMWV ambulance body. I bought mine 2 months ago for $141.10 and it was in great shape.

One correction. The kit is built by the factory on the line. It comes complete, even painted, as a roller with everything but the motor and trans. Four days max.

Great condition, low miles Hummers are for sale from 30-90k. So, the kit makes sense to me.

 

[LukeH]

Intrigued to see such polar points of view here, almost LR vs Toy.
I am convinced that the H1 chassis and suspension would make a great starting point for a forward control camper. A sort of HummVanagon. The long hood and the special radiator out of harm's way would go, gaining a long wide (and stiff as hell) chassis on which one could bolt a respectable length camper body.
I PERSONALLY would choose the 4.2l straight six from Toyota mated to its own auto box; all of which I would locate as far forward as possible, just behind the (vertical) radiator.

Or in the back VW style. That is still the best place for engines in a people carrier, look at all the modern long distance coaches in Europe; not one is front or mid engined.
Rubbish for a cargo carrier, that's why VW dropped it. But a camper isn't a cargo carrier, the market is simply too small to justify a dedicated platform.

Sure you lose the H1 look, the protected rad, the huge roar of the GM, but you gain living space and even more global engine support. The CoG is going to "look" bad but remember camper boxes are filled with air, so actually the driver will still lose his nerve before it tips.
Built light with GFRP/foam I still believe it could be a great little contender slightly wider than a SMB.
A few years ago I actually bought a scale model of a H1 and took it apart to recover the chassis. I built an ugly boxy vanagon like thing out of cardboard to fit it. I'll dig it out sometime.
Learning that the CVs don't give any hassle but they need feeding is a curious reinforcement of the concept. Anyone ever blown up a diff or TC (under stock engine power)?

Of course as already mentioned there are much cheaper, easier ways to get out there and travel, so my idea will probably rest in the realm of "a nice idea" rather than "a good idea".
The former is what comes out in pub conversation over a drink and goes no further, the latter is what sometimes makes it out of the pub and into reality.:smiley_drive:

 

[CodyY]

I worked as a service writer for a GM dealer for quite a while, the Hummer guys always said you should expect $3000/year in normal maintenance for a civilian model.

Personally a Duramax, 7.3 PSD, or 5.9 Cummins with an Allison auto would be the only choices on the table for a rig that heavy. No way in hell I would push that pig around with an inline 6 gasser

 

[LukeH]

I worked as a service writer for a GM dealer for quite a while, the Hummer guys always said you should expect $3000/year in normal maintenance for a civilian model.

BLIMEY that's a lot!
Thanks for this info, you don't by any chance have a vague breakdown of where that goes?
I'm sure Humvee owners will come up with lower figures, hopefully we'll end up with something between what GM wants you to pay THEM each year and what really happens.

Personally a Duramax, 7.3 PSD, or 5.9 Cummins with an Allison auto would be the only choices on the table for a rig that heavy. No way in hell I would push that pig around with an inline 6 gasser

Sorry I should have specified I'm talking about the 4.2 diesel that Toyota put in their Land cruisers for a while.
All the same it would still seem very underpowered by American standards, but as a forward control it enters into the Fuso area of power to weight; and as a camper I wouldn't even try to drive it like a car.
Over this side of the pond my 14 tonne truck only has 210 HP which is still the average for that size of truck. Only the 40Tonne semi-trailers get over 400 HP to play with, so that's where my engine choice comes from.
Besides, as a "lightweight" rig (compared to what I'm building) there's always the compromise between the weight of the long range tanks versus the fuel consumption. My previous camper managed almost 2000kms on a fill up, but only because it was a small engine. 2000kms of diesel for a 7.3 litre is going to weigh a hell of a lot more, consequently reducing camper payload etc. etc.
My choice is clearly not for people in a hurry, or for people who want to maintain cruising speed on a climb...

 

[Fresno]

I worked as a service writer for a GM dealer for quite a while, the Hummer guys always said you should expect $3000/year in normal maintenance for a civilian model.

Please do some reseach. The Hummer is a world wide platform for expeditions. Unfortunately, the Hummer is not well representated here (for several reasons - but I digress). The definitive forum for Hummer owners is the Humvee.net. Don't take my word, see what they are saying. My experience has been very positive, less than 250 dollars for basic maintainance.