Am I just outdated?

[Grenadiers]

We had a 2010 Jeep Commander with the Hemi engine. There are 12 computers in that vehicle! The final drive computer had a recall on it for a software upgrade. The 'traction control' is the weak link in the system, activates the 4wd engagement motor, for want of a better term, to accommodate the AWD system when in slippery conditions. Way beyond my pay grade, but the software upgrade didn't work for most. Many people, myself included had to replace that electric motor several times. Four wheel drive low would not work at this point, and the fear was that it would if you were say, going 75mph down the freeway! We traded the Jeep in, miss that Jeep much!

 

[Jeep or Tacoma]

me too I''m old

My dad thought I should know how to work on cars so when I was 15 he bought a $50 1957 plymouth fury that wasn't running. Told me if I could get it to run I could get my lisence at 16. Well I managed that but it was a pain, the few things I rmemeber aside from the push button transmission was Jacking up the motor to get the oil pan out to get to the main bearings. Still it was pretty fun and that thing had fins that made Batman jealous. I learned points condensers distributor caps etc. None of which really exist today. Fast forward to 2008 I bought a jeep wrangler I couldn't even get to the spark plugs good thing they are 100,000 mile plugs Who would have ever thought?. now I see that the new jeep has lifetime transmisson fluid no dipstick to check crazy world. That being said you guys are pretty much right you tube and some diagnostic tools and you can do a lot.

 

[Happy Joe]

Like others I learned to diagnose vehicles in my early teens... (a '51 Chrysler 331 Hemi w/ safety clutch semi-automatic transmission, for me).
While I like fuel injection and honestly believe it is the best thing to hit vehicles since electronic ignition and alternators (and Kettering's electric start); there are indeed too many computers in newer vehicles and too much interconnection/interdependency between them....
I figure that its due to poor engineering training (the KISS method no longer seems to be given a high design priority by universities and OEM's).
...along with an effort to eliminate all need for any skill/responsibility on the driver's part...
I typically keep a list of error codes and a DVM in the onboard tool kit (most vehicles can still produce error codes without a scanner; and most vehicles can still "limp home" for many failure modes).
At home I keep digital shop manuals for each vehicle.
Off road I typically carry a spare high pressure fuel pump (the only times that I had any injection problems off road, or on, it was the fuel pressure) and for Jeep 4.0's; a crank sensor.
Automatic transmissions are kept operational by regular rebuilds (every 100K miles or so)... Getting harder to convert autos to manuals (and change power trains for something better) now due to the many computers and pollution regs....
Properly driven manual transmissions, my preferred type, typically get 200K+ miles per clutch... (harder to find manual transmission vehicles with adequate transmissions, now due to the lack of driver skills/demand and increasingly poor engineering/reliance on computers instead of good design)... getting too old to fight the system so the last 2 are computerized autos (one rebuilt last year the other scheduled for the spring).

Enjoy!

 

[calicamper]

I use to be wary of the computer stuff in the new cars. But the statistics show a very high reliability record between 30,000 and 100,000 miles regarding the electric bits. Add the diagnostic systems failing sensors etc typically dont fail instantly. You generally get plenty of warning. Having said that there is at least one brand that seems to use really poor quality parts. LOL

Even our nighmare VW gave plenty warning for failed coils, idle sensors etc. Always able to limp it home to the dealer. Funny how the VW dealer had a Taxi pickup line every monday morning. Met one of my neighbors that way. Taxi driver Monday VW days paid for his kids private school bill!! I dont own VW anymore👍

 

[toylandcruiser]

I use to be wary of the computer stuff in the new cars. But the statistics show a very high reliability record between 30,000 and 100,000 miles regarding the electric bits. Add the diagnostic systems failing sensors etc typically dont fail instantly. You generally get plenty of warning. Having said that there is at least one brand that seems to use really poor quality parts. LOL

Even our nighmare VW gave plenty warning for failed coils, idle sensors etc. Always able to limp it home to the dealer. Funny how the VW dealer had a Taxi pickup line every monday morning. Met one of my neighbors that way. Taxi driver Monday VW days paid for his kids private school bill!! I dont own VW anymore

X2. Plenty of new cars running around with half million miles on them. New cars are very reliable.

 

[Mitch502]

A sensor won't cause catastrophic failure...I would argue longevity of hard parts (not reliability) is due to more stringent production more so than more sensors.

 

[Mitch502]

By the way, to top this off, I stopped for gas on the way to replace the solenoid pack in the WK. After getting gas, everything worked perfectly fine. No issues. (I am well aware getting gas had nothing to do with it, it was just stopping).

Drove it for a few miles. Stopped, turned the vehicle on and off about 10 times with various wait times between them. Including letting it cool almost all the way down (couple hours).

Got in it, shifted through all gears fine. Drove it 20 miles home....getting off the highway on the final mile, I went to exit and when I tapped the brakes it shifted down into 3rd and went back into limp mode.

So, now I get to spend Christmas weekend fixing it...lol. I realize intermittent problems aren't related to just new stuff, but it's frustrating none the less.

 

[SheepnJeep]

Do what I did. Pull a '73 F100 off a ranch for $400. Spend $600 on all new brakes, tires, ignition, and insurance, then have a reliable vehicle for $1000. And we drove it 4,000 miles with zero hiccups. You either have to pay up and never turn a wrench, or spend little and put in a lot of sweat equity.

 

[toylandcruiser]

Do what I did. Pull a '73 F100 off a ranch for $400. Spend $600 on all new brakes, tires, ignition, and insurance, then have a reliable vehicle for $1000. And we drove it 4,000 miles with zero hiccups. You either have to pay up and never turn a wrench, or spend little and put in a lot of sweat equity.

Hat doesn’t really prove anything.

 

[Mitch502]

Do what I did. Pull a '73 F100 off a ranch for $400. Spend $600 on all new brakes, tires, ignition, and insurance, then have a reliable vehicle for $1000. And we drove it 4,000 miles with zero hiccups. You either have to pay up and never turn a wrench, or spend little and put in a lot of sweat equity.

We have that book for my newborn son, lol.

Hat doesn’t really prove anything.

Anectodal evidence rules the internet

 

[MOguy]

I use to be wary of the computer stuff in the new cars. But the statistics show a very high reliability record between 30,000 and 100,000 miles regarding the electric bits. Add the diagnostic systems failing sensors etc typically dont fail instantly. You generally get plenty of warning. Having said that there is at least one brand that seems to use really poor quality parts. LOL

Even our nighmare VW gave plenty warning for failed coils, idle sensors etc. Always able to limp it home to the dealer. Funny how the VW dealer had a Taxi pickup line every monday morning. Met one of my neighbors that way. Taxi driver Monday VW days paid for his kids private school bill!! I dont own VW anymore

But what about 20 years from now? A new vehicle will always be more reliable then one that is decades old. New vehicles are more trouble free. But once the new vehicles are old things will change.

With my 1979 K30 I can grab this or that engine and trans out of this or that truck and drop it in. With newer vehicles you have to make sure things are combatable more so then with newer vehicles.

There are obvious benefits to newer vehicles. But there is the $$$ downside. Newer trucks have more power, tow and haul more, more comfortable and will get better MPG (except for my 2105 super duty work truck running E85 getting 9mpg at best).

I think for many owning a older vehicle becomes more of a hobby, there more to it than just driving it, adding a few accessories and getting places.

 

[toylandcruiser]

But what about 20 years from now? A new vehicle will always be more reliable then one that is decades old. New vehicles are more trouble free. But once the new vehicles are old things will change.

With my 1979 K30 I can grab this or that engine and trans out of this or that truck and drop it in. With newer vehicles you have to make sure things are combatable more so then with newer vehicles.

There are obvious benefits to newer vehicles. But there is the $$$ downside. Newer trucks have more power, tow and haul more, more comfortable and will get better MPG (except for my 2105 super duty work truck running E85 getting 9mpg at best).

I think for many owning a older vehicle becomes more of a hobby, there more to it than just driving it, adding a few accessories and getting places.

20 years ago I remember people making the same claim. Here we are 20 years later ad the cars and trucks are still running around. You can grab this or that and add it to vehicles that they never came in.

 

[Happy Joe]

As far as sensors not causing catastrophic failure the qualifier is ..Usually; the crank sensor on Jeep 4.0s is known for failure, and the smart key anti theft systems on many vehicles (not always just the sensor) have left more than a few people stranded...yet cars still get stolen (talk about punishing the innocent...and making them pay extra for the privilege).

I personally would rate any vehicle that fails in the first 150,000 miles as UNRELIABLE (thus my issues with automatic transmissions), and a failure (electronic or mechanical) on or around 30,000 miles is pathetic... (Used to help make electromechanical systems with a 20 year design life; for beer money).

I agree with older vehicles as a HOBBY; this is the biggest reason that I got the TJ (keeps me out of bars and pool hall). Although, seeing, the poor German/Chrysler engineering/quality (someone obviously said "Lets take a solid reliable 200,000 mile powertrain with a good automatic transmission/5 speed and MUCK IT UP with poor design changes") has made me question the wisdom of that decision several times... (owned & modified Jeeps for more than 30 years)...(would buy an earlier model if doing it over).
...I shudder to think what Fiat (not known for reliability, at least on this side of the pond) may have done to my favorite vehicle...

Enjoy!

 

[MOguy]

20 years ago I remember people making the same claim. Here we are 20 years later ad the cars and trucks are still running around. You can grab this or that and add it to vehicles that they never came in.

I suppose 20 years ago really isn't that long back when talking about electronics and vehicles. That would be 1997, Vehicles in the 90s are to new to be old and to old to be new.

 

[MOguy]

As far as sensors not causing catastrophic failure the qualifier is ..Usually; the crank sensor on Jeep 4.0s is known for failure, and the smart key anti theft systems on many vehicles (not always just the sensor) have left more than a few people stranded...yet cars still get stolen (talk about punishing the innocent...and making them pay extra for the privilege).

I personally would rate any vehicle that fails in the first 150,000 miles as UNRELIABLE (thus my issues with automatic transmissions), and a failure (electronic or mechanical) on or around 30,000 miles is pathetic... (Used to help make electromechanical systems with a 20 year design life).

I agree with older vehicles as a HOBBY; this is the biggest reason that I got the TJ (keeps me out of bars and pool hall). Although, after seeing, the poor German/Chrysler engineering/quality (someone obviously said "Lets take a solid reliable 200,000 mile powertrain with a good automatic transmission/5 speed and MUCK IT UP with poor design changes") has made me question the wisdom of that decision several times... (owned Jeeps for more than 30 years)...(would buy an earlier model if doing it over).
...I shudder to think what Fiat (not known for reliability, at least on this side of the pond) may have done to my favorite vehicle...

Enjoy!

I dealt with that on my Jeep. The crank and the cam sensor through the same code, still not a hard fix and if in doubt replace them both. The 4.0 is easy to reach things on compared to a newer engine and easier to work on.