Anti gun legislation

[CruiserArtist]

Anti etc, etc....

Robert hit the nail on the head, the "system" failed. The kid was up on charges of drug use, he wiggled out of it and was let off. He showed many signs of mental issues at school, no one did a thing. He was reported to the sheriff by neighbors after trespassing and committing vandalism, again he was allowed to get away with it. The community failed this person as a whole. So the community now suffers, and hopefully people will pay attention when a friend, neighbor or someone you know shows signs of instability you will care enough to do something, say something, intervene somehow to nip it in the bud while it can be done.
That being said, I live south of and shop in Tucson, have a brother and sister and their families there, and am the daughter of a Marine and am a CCW carrier. I have been shooting since I was seven and am at the range once a month. That's a lot, and my Father insists on it, he wants me to be prepared. And am trained to think in emergency situations, but I can't really say what I would have done myself, guess it would depended on where I was at the time. A clear shot in a crowd of people is really too much to hope for realistically unless you are very close. It's a very dicey judgement call. I HATE the fact that now anyone can conceal here, that was in my opinion a bad move. I and others EARNED the right to conceal. Several politicians have said this will make no difference in the laws, we will see. I too find it amazing that no one shot the dog down during the event, but then again looking at the political gathering that it was I am not surprised, but am thankful that there were several very courageous people that did tackle the killer before he could do more carnage. What I do think needs to be done is that public figures need better protection, they make themselves easy targets for crazies like this young man. And no publicity for killers at all makes good sense, there should be no reward for an act of this type. The media rewards the criminal with fame. I would prefer to never see his face again, it makes me sick every time they show it....

 

[backcountrycruiser]

Very well put, rewarded with fame. Very well said.
Mike

 

[xtatik]

Trouble is, the 2A doesn't protect our right to use firearms for sporting purposes; it protects our right to own guns to throw off a tyrannical government.
And the NRA has never advocated the right of a citizen to own a shoulder fired rocket launcher. That's the job of the JPFO.:sombrero:

I understand the distinctions. But, if I can't have my SAM, what chance will I have at taking down my suddenly gone tyrannical government and its combined armed forces? We're not the distant British franchise we were at the time the 2A was conceived. I can well understand why it was written, when it was written, but I don't see how it functions in this way in these times.

 

[F5driver]

Let Penn and Teller settle this for us.



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCXtfR0_roE&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]YouTube - BULLSH#T! On Gun Laws Part 1[/ame]

 

[kmacafee]

The Second Amendment

Scotus has clarified the 2A significantly in the past few years, especially in the Heller case. The majority's opinion supports the 2a right to own a gun to protect ones home, period. It left open the option for states to craft their own gun control laws, as long as they are reasonable.

I spent a decade as a police officer, including 7 years on a SWAT team. What differentiates police officers and some former military is situational awareness. The average CCW carrier doesn't have it unless they learn and practice tactical shooting skills. Going to a range, shooting at paper targets wearing ear protection is a long, long way from being in an actual shooting situation.

I too wondered why, given the number of guns in Arizona, a citizen didn't react. I think the situation could potentially have been worse and the first officer on the scene would certainly have had his hands full.

I don't carry anymore. It's a hassle to keep track of and from what I see of the average CCW holder, if I were to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, I might be able to "borrow" theirs.

IMHO, Arizona has swung too far in the wrong direction by allowing guns in bars etc. It's a disaster waiting to happen

 

[F5driver]

There was an individual with a concealed carry weapon in the Safeway during the shooting.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/01/would_you_run_to_the_sound_of.html

 

[CoastalDefender]

cop: "I know, I was just checking yo see if you were wearing a vest." (as in bullet proof vest/ second chance whatever)

And appropriate response would have been "why, are you planning on shooting me?"

California police officers are a different breed I tell ya.

 

[Metcalf]

The person with the concealed carry firearm showed great judgement in my opinion. I wish the media would focus on this more.....

 

[keezer37]

What differentiates police officers and some former military is situational awareness. The average CCW carrier doesn't have it unless they learn and practice tactical shooting skills. Going to a range, shooting at paper targets wearing ear protection is a long, long way from being in an actual shooting situation.

I was hoping someone would bring this point up. Until you have a weapon pointed at you that you assume is loaded (and you always assume it is loaded) you do not know how you are going to react.

"Head shot" was mentioned. My training has been, never aim for the head, center mass, always. I am not aware of a situation where training dictates otherwise.
Training was brought up and most agree that there should be training. Should there be testing? Is failure possible and do you not get to handle a weapon until you pass. As a reference, the US Navy has both written and performance testing to qualify and handle a weapon. The written tests are particular to the weapon, multiple choice and you have to get all questions correct. Performance (live firing) you must handle the weapon as directed without deviation or you are kicked off the range and cannot handle the weapon/stand watch that requires it.
I have shot in civilian indoor ranges in San Diego and outdoor in Ohio. I will not anymore. My experience has been that proper weapons handling is not ingrained in the minds of civilians.

I advocate access control. Mentally/emotionally disturbed individuals should not be allowed to handle weapons. I believe real and substantial training/evaluation should be required with the very real possibility of failure and suspension of ones rights until the training is adequately satisfied. I believe annual requalification of the performance test should be administered.

I do not believe people should be allowed to carry guns in public mainly for situational awareness reasons. I would not carry in public. I do not think I am qualified to do so. Further, aside from the mentally/emotionally disturbed, there are the emotionally distraught, someone who may have just, I don't know, caught their spouse with another. You may be capable of handling the situation and control your emotions but are you willing to bet your life or your family's the other guy is should you be in the wrong place at the wrong time? Then of course you have the incredibly clumsy and absentminded. I'm talking about the person who inadvertently moves/pivots with a leveled weapon or could have sworn the safety was on.

 

[Lichen]

I said that no CCW is required in AZ. Background checks ARE still required. The exception is if you (like me) have a CCW permit. Even though the training is no longer required, I believe that anyone who wants a handgun should take it anyway. If properly taught, it will make you a better shooter and understand when and when you can't use your firearm.

 

[Metcalf]

"Head shot" was mentioned. My training has been, never aim for the head, center mass, always. I am not aware of a situation where training dictates otherwise.

While I do not advocate its use, there are some middle eastern military units that train for high density crowds that use a 'head shot' from a kneeling position to minimize the chance of a shoot through at center mass crowd level.

I advocate access control. Mentally/emotionally disturbed individuals should not be allowed to handle weapons. I believe real and substantial training/evaluation should be required with the very real possibility of failure and suspension of ones rights until the training is adequately satisfied. I believe annual requalification of the performance test should be administered.

While it might sound like a good idea, access control has never worked. If someone wants to do harm to someone else, they will. If not a firearm, they could use a bomb, a hammer, a car, a plane, a boat, your shoe, your hands, your feet, etc.


I do not believe people should be allowed to carry guns in public mainly for situational awareness reasons. I would not carry in public. I do not think I am qualified to do so. Further, aside from the mentally/emotionally disturbed, there are the emotionally distraught, someone who may have just, I don't know, caught their spouse with another. You may be capable of handling the situation and control your emotions but are you willing to bet your life or your family's the other guy is should you be in the wrong place at the wrong time? Then of course you have the incredibly clumsy and absentminded. I'm talking about the person who inadvertently moves/pivots with a leveled weapon or could have sworn the safety was on.

I carry a firearm in public every day. I have never had any formal military or police training. I have taken it upon myself to seek out training and pay for it out of my own pocket. I belong to the local gun club, shoot weekly, practice daily, etc. Don't lump all of us softy civvies into the same group.
Its a personal choice if your going to carry, I have made mine.

Also, try and find instances of people who are legally CCW and committing crimes, NDs, shootings, etc. The statistics are staggeringly low....

 

[kmacafee]

Hollywood Head Shots

Our team was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to train with FBI's HRT teams, arguably the best in the business. The entry teams spend countless hours in close combat shooting scenarios and they were always shooting center mass. Their snipers, on the other hand, are more apt to take a head shot under certain circumstances. Head shots are the product of Hollywood; a seasoned operator would probably not take the chance of a head shot unless there were really no other options.

I support anyone's right to carry a weapon but the level of training should be greater than that required to drive a car, another lethal weapon.

Cruiser Artist -- if you can, take a tactical shooting course. You will be amazed at how little you know when you take one. And if you can, take off the muffs and let a round go in an enclosed room. Many people go into mild shock when the first round goes off from the noise alone. It can be very disorienting and deadly if you need to get a second one off.

 

[Storz]

The person with the concealed carry firearm showed great judgement in my opinion. I wish the media would focus on this more.....

Agreed

 

[thebrassnuckles]

Cruiser Artist -- if you can, take a tactical shooting course. You will be amazed at how little you know when you take one. And if you can, take off the muffs and let a round go in an enclosed room. Many people go into mild shock when the first round goes off from the noise alone. It can be very disorienting and deadly if you need to get a second one off.

I have taken a few tactical and defensive firearms courses. I have been shootuing since I was about 9, I was in the military and was trained on handguns and rifles.

I was blown away by how little I knew when I was in those classes.

I had also I had forgotten to put on my muffs in one of the classes, WOW.

It is amazing what happens to the human body in that situation. I have some pretty good experience in high stress situations, and I was amazed at the massive adrenaline dump I experienced. Instantly my heart started racing, my focus went through the roof. the next course of fire I was on fire. it was quite impressive.

I can also see how many folks would fall apart at the seams in the exact same scenario. adrenaline does impressive things. but some poeple cant handle it properly.

YMMV

 

[Mr. Leary]

IMHO, Arizona has swung too far in the wrong direction by allowing guns in bars etc. It's a disaster waiting to happen

Guns in bars. I didn't know about that either... I agree, a disaster waiting to happen.

I advocate access control. Mentally/emotionally disturbed individuals should not be allowed to handle weapons. I believe real and substantial training/evaluation should be required with the very real possibility of failure and suspension of ones rights until the training is adequately satisfied. I believe annual requalification of the performance test should be administered.

x2... and I would add that I have no problem aquiring additional permits (or tax stamps) for my firearms, if it means making it a little harder for criminals to get them.