Any experience with Ember trailers?

[calicamper]

The tire argument should be pretty easy to void. What tires are on there and what is their max load rating? Then how much does the dry trailer weigh? Then account for how much weight you add with full tanks. I'm sure you know that. I agree the CCC, especially on the dual axle, is questionable. I'll be honest, what is typical for single axle trailers?

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I think the axle and load ratings thing is largely driven by the Axle manufacturers. AND!!! The empty weight vs loaded weight with ride quality. My first hmmmmm moment was when geopro / Epro moved to a air ride suspension setup on their single axle 19ft toy hauler. If they had just a typical short leaf spring axle rated to carry the full 5000lb so say 6000lb setup. Empty with the crazy short leafs the trailer would be destroyed on the way home from the dealership riding empty ?. Talking zero give on the empty weight sitting on a stiff as heck axle setup. The torsion axles are better ish but still going to be a heck of a rough ride at empty weight.

So the air ride setup is pretty smart?. Silly simple little pointer prong hovers in the good zone and your good to go doesn’t matter if your empty or packing that heavy hog, just tweak the air bags so your suspension prod is showing its in the zone and bobs your uncle.

 

[Todd780]

That one is either marked up or is optioned up or both. Starting MSRP for that model is $61k. I don't see mention of the Max Solar optional package either which is the most expensive option you can add and doesn't cost $10k. I have seen people mentioning there are not many of these dual axle models available out there yet though.

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I'm in Canada so that price is in CDN funds.

 

[Alloy]

Yeah, Ember has that 191 MSL. That is the big cargo area with the movable bunks. I like that too. I would want them to do that without a slide and they really need to address their cargo capacity. At least half your cargo capacity is gone once the trailer is wet let alone anything other than pillows in that cargo space.

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Cargo in the back + 300lb hitch + a full black tank. I hope people learn about sway before they pass a semi truck at 70mph.

 

[Todd780]

Cargo in the back + 300lb hitch + a full black tank. I hope people learn about sway before they pass a semi truck at 70mph.

Right? Worse place to add weight is at the rear of the trailer..... Becomes a tail wagging the dog situation....

Then you mentioned black tank.... so now wagging tail + black tank = I have this visual in my head:

 

[rehammer81]

Cargo in the back + 300lb hitch + a full black tank. I hope people learn about sway before they pass a semi truck at 70mph.

I can already tell you that whatever trailer I get will have or get converted to a waterless toilet. Most likely a composting toilet since anything that requires consumable plastic or foil packaging seems wasteful to me. That being said, I have to put the composte in a plastic bag for the trash. I would definitely make a plan to maintain tongue weight. I often wonder about the placement of water tanks on some of these rigs.

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[Treefarmer]

The tire argument should be pretty easy to void. What tires are on there and what is their max load rating? Then how much does the dry trailer weigh? Then account for how much weight you add with full tanks. I'm sure you know that. I agree the CCC, especially on the dual axle, is questionable. I'll be honest, what is typical for single axle trailers?

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Bingo. I kept pointing out to the sales guy the capacity of those four tires exceeded the GVWR on the trailer. It has to the Curt suspension and/or the frame that is limiting the GVWR. Of course, the sales guy wants everyone to think it's tires so that it's an easy fix.

 

[Treefarmer]

I can already tell you that whatever trailer I get will have or get converted to a waterless toilet. Most likely a composting toilet since anything that requires consumable plastic or foil packaging seems wasteful to me. That being said, I have to put the composte in a plastic bag for the trash. I would definitely make a plan to maintain tongue weight. I often wonder about the placement of water tanks on some of these rigs.

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Eliminating the black tank has so many benefits it's amazing that more manufacturers don't do it. There a so many waterless/tankless options out there anymore.

 

[calicamper]

Finally looked at a couple of Embers today. Went to see the 191msl. Liked it but really, really do not want a slide. My cargo needs aren’t heavy just bulky and need out of sight out of mind road mode storage which the MSL has. Definitely liked it. Not $66,000 down to $55,000 liked it but if the RV reset get them into the 30’s it gets interesting. People are buying 17FBs now for 36ish. The 19’s need to be in the 36 range to be interesting.

 

[rehammer81]

Finally looked at a couple of Embers today. Went to see the 191msl. Liked it but really, really do not want a slide. My cargo needs aren’t heavy just bulky and need out of sight out of mind road mode storage which the MSL has. Definitely liked it. Not $66,000 down to $55,000 liked it but if the RV reset get them into the 30’s it gets interesting. People are buying 17FBs now for 36ish. The 19’s need to be in the 36 range to be interesting.

I hear you on the 191MSL and the cheaper price reset. If they made a 190MSL it would interest me that much more. I have kicked around the idea of just taking a 190MDB and removing the bunks and installing my own track system and bunks/shelves to basically create a 190MSL without the large side access door. It would still have the smaller side access door and the rear door.

After watching the various Ember Facebook pages, that price would definitely need to drop a good bit more. There has been a good amount of issues and shoddy quality control in the manufacturing. They have a lot of potential but are being bit by the same old American mass RV manufacturing issues.

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[calicamper]

I hear you on the 191MSL and the cheaper price reset. If they made a 190MSL it would interest me that much more. I have kicked around the idea of just taking a 190MDB and removing the bunks and installing my own track system and bunks/shelves to basically create a 190MSL without the large side access door. It would still have the smaller side access door and the rear door.

After watching the various Ember Facebook pages, that price would definitely need to drop a good bit more. There has been a good amount of issues and shoddy quality control in the manufacturing. They have a lot of potential but are being bit by the same old American mass RV manufacturing issues.

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Seeing 2023 - 191msl the 221mdb and one of their fancy cruise models up close. My initial thoughts are other than the duel pane windows, Truma system and thoughtful design ideas the cabinets and exterior doors are nothing different than Geo Pro or say Wolf pup. Same gaskets, same sloppy cabinet assembly etc.

So take a decent adzel sided rig base selling price add in added quality window cost, truma, the cool tire chalk system etc and you’re getting into say 30k zone. Labor quality is still trash. So no value add to Ember built. Only upgraded parts added to the box

 

[Treefarmer]

Seeing 2023 - 191msl the 221mdb and one of their fancy cruise models up close. My initial thoughts are other than the duel pane windows, Truma system and thoughtful design ideas the cabinets and exterior doors are nothing different than Geo Pro or say Wolf pup. Same gaskets, same sloppy cabinet assembly etc.

So take a decent adzel sided rig base selling price add in added quality window cost, truma, the cool tire chalk system etc and you’re getting into say 30k zone. Labor quality is still trash. So no value add to Ember built. Only upgraded parts added to the box

We had the same impression each time we've looked over the Embers. They are "inexpensive" for a reason and won't hold up for long off road.

 

[Buddha.]

Seeing 2023 - 191msl the 221mdb and one of their fancy cruise models up close. My initial thoughts are other than the duel pane windows, Truma system and thoughtful design ideas the cabinets and exterior doors are nothing different than Geo Pro or say Wolf pup. Same gaskets, same sloppy cabinet assembly etc.

So take a decent adzel sided rig base selling price add in added quality window cost, truma, the cool tire chalk system etc and you’re getting into say 30k zone. Labor quality is still trash. So no value add to Ember built. Only upgraded parts added to the box

That’s the impression I get too.

 

[calicamper]

We had the same impression each time we've looked over the Embers. They are "inexpensive" for a reason and won't hold up for long off road.

I like the modern design ideas and they are 7.5ft wide so beyond a well traveled road and say water run off bar, hump in the road they aren’t going to realistically do much beyond that. For my use the “Idea” is pretty good but price is not in realistic reality and that’s someone who can pay cash for it today.

I’ve been trying to figure out the logic or social driving factor behind the insanely stupid prices behind anything RV.

Here is my take on this trend. Before COVID the typical American only used 2-3 days a yr of actual vacation time from work. COVID literally changed the American subconscious drive for “Vacation”. Being stuck “at home” or forced to not be at work literally changed a fundamental behavior or thought process on “Vacation”

Pair crazy cheap and for a short time near zero cost even profit due to skyrocketing value increases people were financing “Vacation” or even felt they were making money while doing RV vacations. This made the depreciation aspect, operating costs a zero thought during purchase. So paying 2x the value of a pre COVID RV wasn’t even a consideration.

Add that University Youtube is FULL of “full time” RV people the idea of a 2-3% 15yr loan on a $90,000 24ft house seemed like nothing compared to a $800,000 house.

Basically the classic exceptionally poor fiscal skills of a big population of people in the US, created this bizarre disconnect between growing personal wealth and leveraging your finances with a very high cost depreciating asset.

Right now is about the turning point as many of the more “aware” types are trying to unload their high cost depreciating asset ie RV before it drops past what they owe. However I bet 95% or more are already under water on their RV. Add that most COVID buyers likely started out $15,000 or more under water at the point of purchase.

I bet it takes another 24months for the depreciating assets and prior cheap loan money to work its self out of the RV market.

Think of the COVID years as a bizarre combination of events that created a super bubble in high cost depreciating asset consumption that will bite allot of people in the back side over the next 24-36 months.

 

[Treefarmer]

I like the modern design ideas and they are 7.5ft wide so beyond a well traveled road and say water run off bar, hump in the road they aren’t going to realistically do much beyond that. For my use the “Idea” is pretty good but price is not in realistic reality and that’s someone who can pay cash for it today.

I’ve been trying to figure out the logic or social driving factor behind the insanely stupid prices behind anything RV.

Here is my take on this trend. Before COVID the typical American only used 2-3 days a yr of actual vacation time from work. COVID literally changed the American subconscious drive for “Vacation”. Being stuck “at home” or forced to not be at work literally changed a fundamental behavior or thought process on “Vacation”

Pair crazy cheap and for a short time near zero cost even profit due to skyrocketing value increases people were financing “Vacation” or even felt they were making money while doing RV vacations. This made the depreciation aspect, operating costs a zero thought during purchase. So paying 2x the value of a pre COVID RV wasn’t even a consideration.

Add that University Youtube is FULL of “full time” RV people the idea of a 2-3% 15yr loan on a $90,000 24ft house seemed like nothing compared to a $800,000 house.

Basically the classic exceptionally poor fiscal skills of a big population of people in the US, created this bizarre disconnect between growing personal wealth and leveraging your finances with a very high cost depreciating asset.

Right now is about the turning point as many of the more “aware” types are trying to unload their high cost depreciating asset ie RV before it drops past what they owe. However I bet 95% or more are already under water on their RV. Add that most COVID buyers likely started out $15,000 or more under water at the point of purchase.

I bet it takes another 24months for the depreciating assets and prior cheap loan money to work its self out of the RV market.

Think of the COVID years as a bizarre combination of events that created a super bubble in high cost depreciating asset consumption that will bite allot of people in the back side over the next 24-36 months.

You nailed it. Even before Covid, I always wondered why anyone with an ounce of financial sense would go into debt to finance a terribly depreciating asset like an RV. It's not like a business that finances depreciating equipment that it then uses to generate excess revenue. When you say that in any RV forum you get a lot of hate mail. People want what they want and they want it now!

 

[TGK]

Out of curiosity, I searched FB marketplace and Craigslist up here in the PNW, and found 2 Embers listed for sale. One, a 2022 191MDB, was listed at $57K and the listing has been up for 24 weeks. Another 191MDB outside of Vancouver BC posted at $59K in US dollars and has been up for 19 days. I periodically go on both these marketplaces to see what select RV's including AWD Ford Transit conversion vans are being offered up for. Over the past few months, I've seen both trailers and also the conversion vans staying up longer and also with price drops. Definitely been a change in the past 6 months. Interestingly, some of the posting have been up for quite a while without price drops. I've seen this particularly happen with some of the conversion vans. Makes me wonder if these sellers are in over their heads and can't afford to sell for less. Or, they are hoping someone, somewhere will come along and simply pay the inflated prices. A while back, I was considering a van conversion but dropped the idea mainly due to the crazy pricing. I had been in contact with several outfits in various locations. Recently, I've been receiving e-mails from some of these converters trying to move brand new conversions. Lastly, there is a large van conversion outfit near Kansas City that sends out e-mails when they get in pre-owned units. 6 or more months ago, they would only occasionally send out a notice for one of these. Now, every week or two, I'm seeing an e-mail with up to 5 used rigs available. There is definitely a shift occurring in the market place.