Anybody ever used Michelin XPS tires?

[ashooter]

I've seen a few ranch trucks running these and the one guy I asked about them REALLY liked them. Kind of "old school" AT type semi-aggressive tread, all steel casing... Look like a good no-nonsense hard use tire for general offroad use on rough rocky roads, but I haven't seen much info on it here or anywhere on the 'net.

Any first hand experience with this tire here?


?

 

[ersatzknarf]

I presume you mean the XPS "Traction" version. I am very interested in them as well, but the largest size is only 235/85R16 (32" OD). I have a spec sheet PDF file - I will try to upload it, but if that doesn't work and if it can be sent by PM, I will forward it to you if you like.

By the way, how are the Toyo M/Ts ? I am leaning that direction, especially that size (33.5" OD), rather than the M-55 tires (33.3" OD), which everyone wants to like, but it just doesn't seem to work out for anyone... I need a very strong tire and one that is as quiet as possible.

Frank

 

[ashooter]

Right - XPS "Traction", not "Ribbed" or whatever they call the highway version.

The Toyo MT's are holding up pretty well. Some chipping and cuts in the lugs, but overall they're holding up better than I really thought they would. I have about 12k miles on them, roughly 8k of that on rocks & gravel, and I'd guess they'll still have about half the original tread depth at 24k and they're wearing nice and even. Chips/cuts will end their life before tread depth gets too shallow.

I know the largest size the Michelin XPS Traction comes in is 235/85r16, but my truck is not lifted, my 16x6 70 series 'Cruiser wheels were made for that width, 0.65"(+/-) ground clearance is not a make or break difference to me, my 4.11 gears will crawl a little better in low gear, gas mileage might be a little "less bad", and the XPS's would probably last a lot longer...

BTW, we have a set of Toyo M-55's on a 3/4 ton Chevy truck at work that are holding up REALLY well. I checked with the guy that drives that truck yesterday and he has about 30k miles on them, probably 5k of that on gravel/rock roads, and I'd guess they still have at least 15-20k miles before they'll need to be replaced... he's had one flat so far, from a 1/2" diam bolt. That's MUCH better performance than he got out of the Goodyear Silent Armors he had before (5 or 6 flats and about 25k miles of decent tread depth).

Anyway, they ONLY reason I'm considering the XPS over the M-55 is because the XPS is all-steel cased, so (right or wrong) it seems like it would be tougher.

 

[ersatzknarf]

Thanks for the update on the M/Ts !

For us, they are the logical choice (diameter, price, sidewall protection, etc.), but I am still fascinated by the M-55s... I think they might offer a little better performance on snow and ice, but one big concern is sound.

Thanks also for the real world info on the M-55s at work. That's good news. Did the guy happen to mention anything about the sound (noise) ?

There is a spec sheet on the M-55, on the Toyo website, similar to the one posted above for the XPS Traction. Interestingly enough, the XPS Traction is one of the "target" tires listed.

From what I recall reading, the XPS is supposed to be constructed internally in the way that the XZL is built, but with more of a real world, on-road, livable tread pattern (obviously ;-). I agree that one would think that the all-steel casing should provide a greater measure of toughness. If Redline (James) should spot this posting, I think he might have some worthwhile comments.

If you have a Sam's Club membership (maybe Costco, too ?), I also recall reading that the XPS were fairly easy to find through there and that the pricing was better (?). They are supposed be very tough and strong, at least from what I have read on the big pick-up forums (hauling big horse trailers and good traction in muddy fields, etc.).

If I had your gearing (4.11 vs. 4.56), I would really give them a look, as I think that they would not only be quite tough, but quiet, too. I have however read that all-steel case tires require different handling for punctures and such, but that might be hearsay ?

Lastly, someone, somewhere mentioned reading that Ho from Expedition Exchange has a set on his D2 Land Rover. I think he posts here occasionally. Maybe he will spot this post...

Hope this helps.

Frank

 

[ashooter]

Thanks for the info.

I have ridden with him down the highway and driven that truck a little bit offroad myself. The noise of the M-55's is not a big deal to me... I mean, you can hear them, but I don't even notice it unless I'm listening for it. Same goes for the M/T's on my 'Cruiser. but that truck has so much wind noise that the only time I can really hear the tires at all is when I get down to about 45mph or slower and have the windows down.



...I guess XPS's are not too popular around here. The one guy that I did ask about the XPS Traction's on his truck is a rancher who is also the owner of the local tire shop, so maybe I'll just go interview him in a little more detail. He's had a set on a 1-ton diesel for at least the last 2 years, so I'm sure he has an opinion by now!

 

[ersatzknarf]

You are very welcome !

Thanks for the impressions of the M-55s. That's a big help. How did they feel offroad for you ?

I agree with you about the XPS not being popular on this forum. It's a little surprising, I think... 235/85R16 is supposed to be the most popular tire size out there. Maybe it just doesn't look the part ? You know, agressive.

From discussions of tread void, both the Toyos have the XPS Traction beat "hands down," but is that enough to nix giving them a try ? As you mentioned, they are all-steel and should be quite tough. I think I will have a look to see if I can find any pricing out there.

Please, do talk with the rancher again and get some more details. I am curious to know what he has to say. If you like, I can try to again find some of those big pick-up forum postings I found a long time ago.

Cheers,
Frank

 

[ashooter]

The M-55's on the 3/4 ton Chevy are pretty grippy, but this truck does no "rock crawling", just rocky gravel and dirt roads. The guy that drives it every day said the two things he really notices is that the tread cleans and grabs in this slick shallow mud we have here and the truck cuts right through standing water on the highway a lot better than it did with the "Silent Armors".

I talked to the rancher here that has XPS's on his truck. (He's also the owner of the local tire shop, BTW.) He said he's on his second set, the first set got about 60k miles before he felt like they needed to be replaced. He said they're reasonably puncture resistant, reasonably good traction, but the next set of tires going on his truck will be either M-55's or Open Country AT's, just based on the lack of flat-fixing he's had to do since the oil field trucks all switched from BFG to Toyo.

Bottom line: Looks like I'm back to square one where I was before I bought these M/T's, which is that the best option for me would be another set of M/T's or a set of M-55's.... likely in 255/85r16 (again) :sombrero:

Those XPS 235/85r16's looked pretty small parked next to my 255's.


Jeez... All this when I don't even really need a new set of tires for another year or so! Maybe I'm turning into another Redline (aka the "Imelda Marcos of Tires") -- I actually considered having these M/T's moved to my old set of 16x7 rims and buying a set of XPS's to mount on the 16x6 rims, just so I could try 'em out!

 

[ersatzknarf]

Cool. Thanks for the update.
We don't need the tires for rock crawling either, but it's very good to hear that the M-55s clean out well, work well in slick mud and cut through standing water.

That the rancher/tire store owner did two sets of XPS but is going to Toyo for the next set says a lot; that and your comment about them being small (235/85) next your 255/85s. I can't use the XPS with the gearing we've got anyway

There's nothing wrong with being Imelda's cousin

I think that's a good plan : move the M/Ts to the other wheels and get the XPSs for the narrower rims. It'll be good to have them for comparison and a back-up set, too.

Me ? Yet once again, I am being drawn away from the M/Ts toward the M-55s... kinda "dark side"-like 8^O

The M/Ts make a lot more sense in terms of OD, cost... help !

Hey, if you don't get the XPSs, please get the M-55s



Frank

 

[Redline]

$0.03

Used to be the most popular tire size...

Back in the late 80s and 1990s the LT235/85R16 was 'THE' light-truck tire size for most heavy-duty pickups. But then G.M./Dodge stared putting the smaller (short) 245/75R16 on trucks and the 265/75R16 took over as the standard tire on Fords. The 265/75 is a very good size, fits lots of stuff and is available in almost any tread pattern/casing you might want (like the 235/85 used to be). I don't have the stats at my fingertips but I'm confident there are many more 265/75 sold than 235/85 these days. 255/85s are barely on the chart ☹

I would comment that the XPS traction is not popular on this forum, but truly not popular anywhere. The limited sizes and its design make the XPS a specialty, commercial application tire. I like the tire and was attracted to them many years ago, but long ago stopped using the 235/85 in favor of 255/85. These days I think there are far too many other, better choices over the XPS. I'm in favor of 'think different', but maybe the XPS is a little too different.

It's pretty telling that the tire shop owner/rancher is probably going to go with Toyos next. 60k out of a set of XPS that are worked hard on his pickup speaks volumes about the strength and longevity of this tire (depending on how heavily loaded & worked it is). I don't think he will get as many miles out of the set of Toyos... Maybe the M55s with thick, shallow depth center tread design?

My other observation would be, that although the 'all-steel' XPS casing sounds like a good idea, I have had all-steel tires and other very stiff carcass tires and know that there are positives and negatives. The all-steel XZLs I ran (for a minute) were like driving on bricks on my F350. Part of this was the suspension but part the tire too. Maybe the XPS are not as rough, but I don't need to try them. Remember that tire flex, both sidewall and tread, help with many off-highway traction challenges. Though possibly not quite as stiff as the XPS?, I know that more air needs to be let out of the Toyo MT/M55 to get a similar amount of flex out of the tire compared to many other, more flexible designs. For example, in my application I needed to go down to about 10-PSI to get similar flex/ride that I get out of other tires at 15-PSI.

Toyos

To be clear, I'm not knocking the Toyos. I love them, particularly the MT. If my car would drive straight with them I would still be running a set of Toyo MT in 255/85 and I would live with the firmer ride and less flex [I would just drop the pressure super low ☺ off-highway]. It sounds to me as if ashooter has the perfect tire in the Toyo MT for his application and is getting very good wear out of them, especially considering all his rocky road miles. I would argue that the Toyos are tough and stiff enough (MT & M55) and I would pick them over many other tires.

snip........

I agree with you about the XPS not being popular on this forum. It's a little surprising, I think... 235/85R16 is supposed to be the most popular tire size out there. Maybe it just doesn't look the part ? You know, agressive.

snip...........

Cheers,
Frank

 

[Redline]

Cause they are small in comparison

You better be careful, shopping for and buying tires is a fun and expensive disease. :elkgrin: Though certainly cheaper than swapping cars or wives :sombrero:

snip...............

Those XPS 235/85r16's looked pretty small parked next to my 255's.


Jeez... All this when I don't even really need a new set of tires for another year or so! Maybe I'm turning into another Redline (aka the "Imelda Marcos of Tires") -- I actually considered having these M/T's moved to my old set of 16x7 rims and buying a set of XPS's to mount on the 16x6 rims, just so I could try 'em out!

 

[ashooter]

Cause they are small in comparison

You better be careful, shopping for and buying tires is a fun and expensive disease. :elkgrin: Though certainly cheaper than swapping cars or wives :sombrero:

Yep... Almost as much fun as tweaking and "driving" my shootin' arns!

:ar15:

If they only made an 8.25r16 or 255/85r16 XZL that handled like a Toyo M/T and lasted as long as an XPS or M-55...

Don't get me wrong, I really like the M/T's, but I still think they're overkill for my use. More than likely I'll go with M-55's for the next set. Either way, I'm pretty sold on Toyos.

 

[Redline]

I agree shootin' is more fun than driving, but maybe that's because I do less of it? :smiley_drive:

I'm thinking about my next set of 255s, and I do find myself thinking a little about the M55 again (god help me). But there are two road blocks:

1) I wish the tread was a little more open, like a Cooper S/T or similar, and the center tread ribs were not so shallow.

2) An M55 is about $84.00 more per tire ($266.00) over the Maxxis Bighorn that I know I like for my application.

To be fair, the Bighorn and M55 are pretty different in design and focus. For your use the M55 or MT are better.

Yep... Almost as much fun as tweaking and "driving" my shootin' arns!

:ar15:

If they only made an 8.25r16 or 255/85r16 XZL that handled like a Toyo M/T and lasted as long as an XPS or M-55...

Don't get me wrong, I really like the M/T's, but I still think they're overkill for my use. More than likely I'll go with M-55's for the next set. Either way, I'm pretty sold on Toyos.

 

[ashooter]

Redline

I agree with you about the center lugs being shallow. Any idea why they designed the tire that way? I'm sure it does add stiffness, and once that center part gets worn to the point that those lugs aren't biting well, you'd probably be about ready to replace the tires anyway... Still, it seems like it would shorten the usable lifespan of the tire, even though I'd still guesstimate these M-55's would last 40k+ miles on almost any truck.

In favor of the M-55, everybody I've talked to that has used them, LOVES them and acts like they would never buy anything else... But they are not "tire connoisseurs" like some people.

Also, M-55's are not as grippy/grabby as the M/T, but they are a LOT more grippy than something like a BFG AT. Not a "mud terrain", but they do have more void than any AT type tire I've seen, with the possible exception of the Cooper ST... maybe... AND I think they would look really cool on a 20+/- year old truck, and I'm not too proud to admit that this has something to do with my desire to lean away from the Toyo M/T - I'm one of the oddballs that thinks Toyo M/T's are ugly as sin, even though they work really well.

 

[Redline]

M55

ashooter,

Below is an excerpt from an email to a friend partially about the M55. I had a conversation with the manager of local tire store about some treads, mostly the Toyo M55 and MT. You asked at the right time ☺ .

...We talked lots about the M55, they had one in the showroom too and I inspected it up close again. Dave helped talk me out of another set with his honesty. As I have already shared, he doesn't like the rock guard in the center of the tread (neither do I), but knows that it's there to prevent punctures. The tire is chip resistant and is good for those environments where it’s needed, where other tires are just cut up in a matter of days or weeks (logging, mining). I told him about the whining noise on the highway when I had them before (I don't think he has ever ran a set on his own truck), and he said the guys that run the M55 bouncing down a gravel road in a loud, beat-up truck don't care about the noise and couldn't hear it anyway in that environment.*

Though he doesn't go off road, he runs the Toyo MT and likes them, as they are not too loud, they balance better than just about anything, and they can wear a very long time (driver/vehicle dependent of course). He said he sipes his for added winter traction, but then he doesn't go off-road so he’s not worried about the tire chipping. He would not sipe them for off-road use. I walked out of there still a big fan on the Toyo MT, even though I can run them on my 4Runner, and still not a fan of the M55.*

Redline

I agree with you about the center lugs being shallow. Any idea why they designed the tire that way? I'm sure it does add stiffness, and once that center part gets worn to the point that those lugs aren't biting well, you'd probably be about ready to replace the tires anyway... Still, it seems like it would shorten the usable lifespan of the tire, even though I'd still guesstimate these M-55's would last 40k+ miles on almost any truck.

In favor of the M-55, everybody I've talked to that has used them, LOVES them and acts like they would never buy anything else... But they are not "tire connoisseurs" like some people.

Also, M-55's are not as grippy/grabby as the M/T, but they are a LOT more grippy than something like a BFG AT. Not a "mud terrain", but they do have more void than any AT type tire I've seen, with the possible exception of the Cooper ST... maybe... AND I think they would look really cool on a 20+/- year old truck, and I'm not too proud to admit that this has something to do with my desire to lean away from the Toyo M/T - I'm one of the oddballs that thinks Toyo M/T's are ugly as sin, even though they work really well.

 

[ashooter]

Well, I'm still probably 6 months or more from "needing" a new set of tires... but if I can pinch enough pennies, I might just buy a set of M-55's before the M/T's wear out. I can always have the M/T's mounted on my old 16x7 rims for a "backup set" of tires, and switch back and forth as needed.

...Is this how it starts, Redline? :ylsmoke:


I dunno... On one hand, in all fairness the M/T's are doing fine on my truck (ugly though they may be), but on the other hand, the M-55 sounds like it was really designed for precisely the kind of driving that close to half my mileage is: rocky back country roads.

...Plus the kinda-sorta first hand experience I have with the surveying truck at work, plus the 2nd hand experience I've been told from a rancher I know pretty well who's been running them on at least 2 trucks that I know of. Granted, this rancher lives 150 miles from me where they have a lot more sand, mesquite, and mud than rocks, but still...

Anyhoo - it all boils down to what you want the tire to do, right? I want it to get me from A to B with as few flats as possible, last as long as possible, and look cool on my truck (i.e. help my '80 to look more like a '60). So based on those requirements, the only possible reason why the M-55 would not be better for my application would be if they are noticeably more prone to getting flats in the kind of terrain I run them in. Doubtful.

In case you haven't noticed yet, I've just about talked myself into a set of M-55's.... I'll report back on my impressions of them.
:smiley_drive: