Jonathan Hanson
Supporting Sponsor
Excuse us, everyone. We're going to go make up.
Anyone heard of Wildernest Campers?
- Thread starter Wanderlusty
- Start date
paulj
Expedition Leader
I can see where the Wildernest would have problems with wind, especially 30 mph. I don't recall ever camping in a situation where the wind was strong enough to be a problem. Most of my camping was in the MidWest and Pacific NW, with plenty of sheltering trees. In a windy situation I think it would be best to aim the truck into the wind, so the wind hits the tent along its strongest axis.
I don't know what you mean about the roof being arched when closed. Are you talking about flexing of the fiberglass, or bending of the mattress? My mattress and lid stayed flat, without any tendency to bow or sag. We slept in the Wildernest 2/3 of the nights during our 3 mth Alaska trip, and found the nest to be more comfortable than most motels.
My mattress was 3-4 inches of moderately stiff foam. The fiberglass lid was a reasonably stiff sandwich construction. If I knelt on the inside of the open lid without the mattress in place, I could hear a bit of crackling, indicating the inside glass layer was thin enough to transmit concentrated forces to the core layer. But there were no such problems with the mattress in place.
In case it isn't clear, the tent and bed are supported in several ways. The primary support for the bed/lid is a cable system - cables front and back that run from the left side of the base, over a spring loaded vertical post, and back down to the outer edge of the bed. The vertical posts also serve as the base for the main ridge pole. On both left and right sides, there U shaped end supports. As part of set up you put two fiberglass rods between these 3 ridge poles, spreading them apart and tensioning the roof. You can see the bowed shaped produced by these rods in the Boulder pictures.
With this basic setup, the tent and bed will rock on the truck's suspension. They provided two means of reducing this movement. One was a strap that ran diagonally from the bed down to the right side wheel. The other was a pair of telescoping aluminum tent poles that fit into brackets on the outer edge of the bed. The brackets are visible in the closed side view of the Boulder truck (but the poles and strap are not in use).
paulj
I don't know what you mean about the roof being arched when closed. Are you talking about flexing of the fiberglass, or bending of the mattress? My mattress and lid stayed flat, without any tendency to bow or sag. We slept in the Wildernest 2/3 of the nights during our 3 mth Alaska trip, and found the nest to be more comfortable than most motels.
My mattress was 3-4 inches of moderately stiff foam. The fiberglass lid was a reasonably stiff sandwich construction. If I knelt on the inside of the open lid without the mattress in place, I could hear a bit of crackling, indicating the inside glass layer was thin enough to transmit concentrated forces to the core layer. But there were no such problems with the mattress in place.
In case it isn't clear, the tent and bed are supported in several ways. The primary support for the bed/lid is a cable system - cables front and back that run from the left side of the base, over a spring loaded vertical post, and back down to the outer edge of the bed. The vertical posts also serve as the base for the main ridge pole. On both left and right sides, there U shaped end supports. As part of set up you put two fiberglass rods between these 3 ridge poles, spreading them apart and tensioning the roof. You can see the bowed shaped produced by these rods in the Boulder pictures.
With this basic setup, the tent and bed will rock on the truck's suspension. They provided two means of reducing this movement. One was a strap that ran diagonally from the bed down to the right side wheel. The other was a pair of telescoping aluminum tent poles that fit into brackets on the outer edge of the bed. The brackets are visible in the closed side view of the Boulder truck (but the poles and strap are not in use).
paulj
VikingVince
Explorer
Jonathan said "I think the FlipPac is better, and although I know Vince will disagree, I still think the Four Wheel Popup is the ultimate expedition camper."
Jonathan...I don't necessarily disagree. I have always liked the FourWheel camper and still do. However, I recently looked at them very closely at the Sportsman's Expo here in southern CA. They had a big display with several of their units. I still like them alot BUT...after detailed inspection, the biggest drawback is they are really short on storage space. I estimate that with my built-ins in the back of my Tacoma I currently have about 5-6 times the cubic storage space. I could redesign one side of my built-ins to be 36 in high cabinets with a small sink and stovetop just like the FourWheel.
A couple down in Baja had the FourWheel model that fits the Tacoma...they carried lot of their stuff in tubs/Actionpackers and then had to set those outside of the rig in a tent in order to use the rig...that doesn't appeal to me...although I still like the units.
Bottom line...with a flippac, if you're a half decent carpenter I think you could build/install everything that the FourWheel has and still have 3-4 times the storage space. Part of the reason is that with the Flippac the bed is entirely over the cab, freeing up all the cargo bed space. A fully optioned FourWheel for a Tacoma tops out around $12k...you could trick-out a flippac ($3200) with homemade couch, cabinets, stove, sink, frig/freeze for $5-6K.
From what you said, though, I think the FourWheel is better in heavy wind. I've been in heavy wind (80mph gusts)...and it does shake around a good deal. I like both units. If I were to get a FourWheel, I'd definitely get a double cab truck...take out the back seats and install storage units to make up for the lack of storage in the FourWheel...that would work!
Jonathan...I don't necessarily disagree. I have always liked the FourWheel camper and still do. However, I recently looked at them very closely at the Sportsman's Expo here in southern CA. They had a big display with several of their units. I still like them alot BUT...after detailed inspection, the biggest drawback is they are really short on storage space. I estimate that with my built-ins in the back of my Tacoma I currently have about 5-6 times the cubic storage space. I could redesign one side of my built-ins to be 36 in high cabinets with a small sink and stovetop just like the FourWheel.
A couple down in Baja had the FourWheel model that fits the Tacoma...they carried lot of their stuff in tubs/Actionpackers and then had to set those outside of the rig in a tent in order to use the rig...that doesn't appeal to me...although I still like the units.
Bottom line...with a flippac, if you're a half decent carpenter I think you could build/install everything that the FourWheel has and still have 3-4 times the storage space. Part of the reason is that with the Flippac the bed is entirely over the cab, freeing up all the cargo bed space. A fully optioned FourWheel for a Tacoma tops out around $12k...you could trick-out a flippac ($3200) with homemade couch, cabinets, stove, sink, frig/freeze for $5-6K.
From what you said, though, I think the FourWheel is better in heavy wind. I've been in heavy wind (80mph gusts)...and it does shake around a good deal. I like both units. If I were to get a FourWheel, I'd definitely get a double cab truck...take out the back seats and install storage units to make up for the lack of storage in the FourWheel...that would work!
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Jonathan Hanson
Supporting Sponsor
I agree with all that, Vince. When we get another Four Wheel camper (we sold our old one to buy our land), I'd like to have the factory leave out some or all of the cabinetry (which they told us they will do) and build my own, including a space for an Engel to replace the marginal factory fridge. One thing we missed was being able to light the stove under a kettle while in bed - the bed extends over the stock stove location.
Our procedure with luggage was very simple, however: We stored our stuff in duffels; whenever we stopped for lunch or a coffee break, one of us would climb in the back, pop the top, toss our bags up on the bed, and we'd have a clear floor. Since it takes, literally, 30 seconds to raise the roof on that camper we always utilized it even for very short stops.
One more strength of the Four Wheel: You can raise the roof with two sea kayaks on top (or, obviously, anything lighter such as bikes). Takes a little more force, but with a Wildernest or FlipPac the roof load has to come off first.
Our procedure with luggage was very simple, however: We stored our stuff in duffels; whenever we stopped for lunch or a coffee break, one of us would climb in the back, pop the top, toss our bags up on the bed, and we'd have a clear floor. Since it takes, literally, 30 seconds to raise the roof on that camper we always utilized it even for very short stops.
One more strength of the Four Wheel: You can raise the roof with two sea kayaks on top (or, obviously, anything lighter such as bikes). Takes a little more force, but with a Wildernest or FlipPac the roof load has to come off first.
Wanderlusty
Explorer
Jonathan,
Hey, yeah, the Four Wheel campers do even sell a shell model, for the bargain price of $5995.
http://www.fourwheelcampers.com/
http://www.fourwheelcampers.com/shellpictures.htm
Personally, I think that is a bit steep for shell only, but then again, maybe not.
I think the Four Wheel campers are pretty awesome but for the fact that they are a lot pricier, and at least my initial concern is remembering to be conscious of the overhangs when it tight spaces. That is one feature that i liked about the Wildernest, is that it pretty much followed the profile of the cab.
With a kid almost here (literally...made a false alarm trip to hospital last night!) it has been on my mind more and more that the Jeep is just not going to be big enough for us to travel in, so options for truck based camping is something that I am checking out now.
A lot depends on what vehicle I get also. My top contenders are are an 04 or previous Taco with the crew cab, or a monster F-250 with crew cab and diesel. I know that there is a lot of difference between those two in both size and price, but my thinking is the Taco has clearly proved it's capability, but both me and the wife are bigger folks, so the Taco might be a bit snug for any family of three, let alone our family. The F-250 may well be overkill, but I figure that it is not much bigger than any other full size pickup, which would be the next step, but it is VERY much more stout. And I like the idea of Diesel too.
So that is my thinking for trucks, which leads me to thinking campers. Reading this thread has kinda schooled me on the ins and outs of what is available. Or NOT available, as the case is with a Wildernest. To me, the Wildernest seems like a great idea that only gets points for a so-so execution. Perhaps it could have been better, but also there appears to be some hurdles inherent to the design that compromises it no matter who builds it.
The Flip-Pac is nice, and is definitely under consideration despite the fact that I don't like the clamshell-over-the-cab style, but whatever...
The 4 wheel camper is probably just pricier than I can expect to pay, especially if I go the F-250 route...and stilll just not that keen on adding that much more bulk on what would already be a big setup.
The more I have thought about it, the more I have been drawn to a setup like Scott sometimes uses, with a retractable bed cover of some sort, and a Eesi-Awn or comparable tent mounted at bed level. That is clearly the most compact, when set up that way. It is an easy set up. It is a fairly well proven design.
And somehow, when lined up against the other options, the Eesi-Awn somehow actually becomes the 'budget?' solution! Whoda thunk it?
Anyhow, I have some time. I want to pay the Jeep off first, and while I travelled EARLY and OFTEN growing up, I figure I will not tackle expedition travel with the kid until he is at least a couple years old. But I am the kind of guy who researches every decision VERY thoroughly, so 2 years or so should just about be enough time to collect all the neccessary data....
Hey, yeah, the Four Wheel campers do even sell a shell model, for the bargain price of $5995.
http://www.fourwheelcampers.com/
http://www.fourwheelcampers.com/shellpictures.htm
Personally, I think that is a bit steep for shell only, but then again, maybe not.
I think the Four Wheel campers are pretty awesome but for the fact that they are a lot pricier, and at least my initial concern is remembering to be conscious of the overhangs when it tight spaces. That is one feature that i liked about the Wildernest, is that it pretty much followed the profile of the cab.
With a kid almost here (literally...made a false alarm trip to hospital last night!) it has been on my mind more and more that the Jeep is just not going to be big enough for us to travel in, so options for truck based camping is something that I am checking out now.
A lot depends on what vehicle I get also. My top contenders are are an 04 or previous Taco with the crew cab, or a monster F-250 with crew cab and diesel. I know that there is a lot of difference between those two in both size and price, but my thinking is the Taco has clearly proved it's capability, but both me and the wife are bigger folks, so the Taco might be a bit snug for any family of three, let alone our family. The F-250 may well be overkill, but I figure that it is not much bigger than any other full size pickup, which would be the next step, but it is VERY much more stout. And I like the idea of Diesel too.
So that is my thinking for trucks, which leads me to thinking campers. Reading this thread has kinda schooled me on the ins and outs of what is available. Or NOT available, as the case is with a Wildernest. To me, the Wildernest seems like a great idea that only gets points for a so-so execution. Perhaps it could have been better, but also there appears to be some hurdles inherent to the design that compromises it no matter who builds it.
The Flip-Pac is nice, and is definitely under consideration despite the fact that I don't like the clamshell-over-the-cab style, but whatever...
The 4 wheel camper is probably just pricier than I can expect to pay, especially if I go the F-250 route...and stilll just not that keen on adding that much more bulk on what would already be a big setup.
The more I have thought about it, the more I have been drawn to a setup like Scott sometimes uses, with a retractable bed cover of some sort, and a Eesi-Awn or comparable tent mounted at bed level. That is clearly the most compact, when set up that way. It is an easy set up. It is a fairly well proven design.
And somehow, when lined up against the other options, the Eesi-Awn somehow actually becomes the 'budget?' solution! Whoda thunk it?
Anyhow, I have some time. I want to pay the Jeep off first, and while I travelled EARLY and OFTEN growing up, I figure I will not tackle expedition travel with the kid until he is at least a couple years old. But I am the kind of guy who researches every decision VERY thoroughly, so 2 years or so should just about be enough time to collect all the neccessary data....
VikingVince
Explorer
Jonathan...yeah, you are right about the advantage of being able to carry a certain pound load on top without having to take it off to raise the lid. That is definitely an advantage I forgot to mention...another minor advantage with the
FourWheel is that you can leave all your bedding in place when you lower the top...I have to pull my sleeping bag and pillows out...but that's because I put in a different 4" mattress (very comfy though)...never tried it, but I think I could have squeezed it shut with the sleeping bag in place with the original one and half inch mattress.
To tell you the truth, if I were building my rig now I would get a FourWheel over the Flippac...although the Flippac is a good choice for a more limited budget. I ended up with a Flippac basically because I found a used one for $700.!!!...that was a major incentive to try it versus $10K for a FourWheel
On another note, I was actually suprised to hear you say that you put a kettle on the stove for heat while in bed...I know some folk do that...there is a carbon monoxide (CO) risk if the stove malfunctions (I know you know that)...I'd have two CO detectors in the unit if I did that. I never leave any type of heating unit on while sleeping...but I've never camped sub zero either...about the coldest I've gone is a little below freezing.
FourWheel is that you can leave all your bedding in place when you lower the top...I have to pull my sleeping bag and pillows out...but that's because I put in a different 4" mattress (very comfy though)...never tried it, but I think I could have squeezed it shut with the sleeping bag in place with the original one and half inch mattress.
To tell you the truth, if I were building my rig now I would get a FourWheel over the Flippac...although the Flippac is a good choice for a more limited budget. I ended up with a Flippac basically because I found a used one for $700.!!!...that was a major incentive to try it versus $10K for a FourWheel
On another note, I was actually suprised to hear you say that you put a kettle on the stove for heat while in bed...I know some folk do that...there is a carbon monoxide (CO) risk if the stove malfunctions (I know you know that)...I'd have two CO detectors in the unit if I did that. I never leave any type of heating unit on while sleeping...but I've never camped sub zero either...about the coldest I've gone is a little below freezing.
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paulj
Expedition Leader
Sleeping in the Wildernest worked well on our Alaska trip, where we moved almost every day. It wasn't as good for vacation trips where we wanted to stay put for several days at a time. If we wanted to drive anywhere during the day, we had to pack up the tent and sleeping gear. So for a number of years we made more use of a stand alone tent.
Now we are back to sleeping in the car (2 people in a Honda Element), but there is still that tension between the convenience of having a dry, off-the-ground sleeping area, and having to unpack and pack every night.
paulj
Now we are back to sleeping in the car (2 people in a Honda Element), but there is still that tension between the convenience of having a dry, off-the-ground sleeping area, and having to unpack and pack every night.
paulj
Wanderlusty
Explorer
I guess that in the end, no matter what direction you go, there is always going to be some compromises made. Just have to find what MOST fits the way you travel. And even THAT isn't always easy!
Jonathan Hanson
Supporting Sponsor
$700! That's a screaming bargain, Vince!
When you see a naked Four Wheel Popup frame, all elegant welded aluminum, you can at least partly justify their expense. There's no other pop-top style camper I know of within four or five hundred pounds of it. And they're still not as strong.
I'd never use a stove for heat unless I was wide awake and ready for coffee, with suitable ventilation. We didn't have the factory heater in ours, partly for reasons of expense and storage space.
When you see a naked Four Wheel Popup frame, all elegant welded aluminum, you can at least partly justify their expense. There's no other pop-top style camper I know of within four or five hundred pounds of it. And they're still not as strong.
I'd never use a stove for heat unless I was wide awake and ready for coffee, with suitable ventilation. We didn't have the factory heater in ours, partly for reasons of expense and storage space.
DesertRose
Safari Chick & Supporting Sponsor
Being serious here for once, I thought I'd chime in that quality of construction of either the Wildernest or the 4WheelPopup was excellent - never any complaints. Particuarly with the 4Wheel - wow, did we ever put miles on it, and it just stayed tight and high-quality the whole time, save for a problem with the door eventually sagging. (For 5 of the years we had it we lived in very very remote places, down long dirt roads, and drove it regularly to towns - it also took me to the Sierra Madre for a very tough trip way off the beaten track, and survived some gnarly encounters, including sliding off a slick road and slamming hard into a ditch and rock, which broke a leaf but didn't even knock a screw loose on the camper.)
Also, it's so easy to pop, a consideration for me when travelling alone, which I did a lot for about a decade. The Wildernest was hard for me alone - we rigged a big strap to toss over the top to the other side, and I could take a running start and dig my heels in and open it if I threw all 100 pounds into it - being careful that if it didn't work and it snapped back closed, I let go the strap lest I end up catapulted over the top!
Also, it's so easy to pop, a consideration for me when travelling alone, which I did a lot for about a decade. The Wildernest was hard for me alone - we rigged a big strap to toss over the top to the other side, and I could take a running start and dig my heels in and open it if I threw all 100 pounds into it - being careful that if it didn't work and it snapped back closed, I let go the strap lest I end up catapulted over the top!
paulj
Expedition Leader
Yea, openning and closing the Wildernest does take some upper body strength. My wife regularly set up the tent once the lid was over, but I always did the initial lifting (from a standing position on the lowered tailgate). When closing it, I usually walked my way along a roof rack bar until the lid was vertical. At the point it helped if another person made sure the tenting was out of the way, so it wouldn't get pinched between lid and cap as it closed.
paulj
paulj
kcowyo
ExPo Original
Jonathan Hanson said:
There is a lot of great first hand experience in this thread! Thanks Jonathan & Roseann, Vince and Paul for sharing honestly the pros & cons of these set ups. I've been researching the Wildernest, FlipPacs and Four Wheel Campers for 2 years now, but previous owners will always give better real world impressions that the brochures and manufacturers web sites can.
Things like the wind hassle, set up struggle and sagging bed with the Wildernest, are factors I hadn't really considered. I can see how the squeeky overhang can be annoying if you toss & turn all night, or travel with your spouse....
And Jonathan, I hope you're right about the Four Wheel Campers being the ultimate, because if fate has any heart at all (I know, I know....) I may be making a little roadie soon for my next "mod." :keepingfingerscrossedsmilie:
Jonathan Hanson
Supporting Sponsor
Kcowyo;
Yahoo! I don't think you'd be sorry.
On the option sheet, don't miss the screen door. Yeah, it should be standard, and it's a lot, but it's worth it. You'd have a very hard time fabricating one yourself.
On our next one I'll definitely skip the refrigerator in favor of an Engle.
Yahoo! I don't think you'd be sorry.
On the option sheet, don't miss the screen door. Yeah, it should be standard, and it's a lot, but it's worth it. You'd have a very hard time fabricating one yourself.
On our next one I'll definitely skip the refrigerator in favor of an Engle.
DesertRose
Safari Chick & Supporting Sponsor
We just talked to the factory rep at a show in AZ, and they are now including site delivery and installation in the deal - a hugely important thing. Apparently they send their own truck and trailer and put it on right at your place. We had to go to That State, too (a vastly bizarre experience, trying to camp near Tahoe!). And when we upgraded to a new Tacoma and had a local company transfer the camper, they must have been a bunch of gorillas and used hammers to fit it, because the rear of the Tacoma is all messed up - it doesn't seal any more, because the side pieces that are supposed to close up to the tailgate are all smashed out of shape.
Anyway - an important consideration.
Anyway - an important consideration.