Astro Van AWD - 2" or 4" lift?

[TroySmith80]

Hey gang, i'm planning on a lift for my '93 AWD astro but am really torn between the 2" and 4" options. I don't want to do any major rock crawling or severe trails, but i do want to be able to do pretty gnarly roads.

I have a book: "Guide to Colorado Backroads & 4-Wheel-Drive Trails" by Charles Wells and Matt Peterson. I'd love to be able to do all the routes in that book, but will probably never need to do anything rougher. He also has a book on Moab and maybe some others as well. I'm assuming the stock van could do all the easy rated trails and many of the moderate ones, and a 2" van could probably do all the moderate and some of the difficult. Would a 2" lift and some good skid plates be enough?

The reason i refer to the book is because so far i haven't done any off-road traveling, or very little anyway. So i don't have a lot of personal experience to relate. I'm excited to get into it though!

Any input on how to decide on the lift? The reason for not just going with 4" if it's not necessary is because i want to keep the thing as easy to get in and out of as possible, and also to keep cost and installation effort down as much as possible.

Either way i plan on new tires and shocks. The van currently has the fiberglass leaf springs in back. It's a 1993, so it has the older transfer case, torsion rods and front end bodywork. Also it has the G80 rear axle with 3.73 gears according to the tags in the glovebox

 

[ihatemybike]

Most Astro get 4" lift and 31" tires, I've seen several vans start with 2" and then switch to 4".

2" will fit 235/75R15 tires
4" will fit 31x10.5R15 tires

I'm trying 31" tires with a 2" lift on Grumpy. It hasn't moved out of the driveway yet as I'm tackling so other issues with the van. So far the lift looks good, but I don't have the front bumper cover on and haven't tried turning the wheels yet. Based on my readings of forums for these vans, I'm sure some trimming and clearance pounding will be needed in the front wheel wells though. Between lift and tires the body is about 4" higher off the ground.

In stock form Grumpy has been rather impressive. Taking on washes, open dessert to get around washed out abandoned roads, up to level 3.5 of 5 trails in Moab and a few rather fun outing at the local off-road parks.

Climbing up a rocky ledge, about as tall as the hood.

Using the 1-10 rating guide on http://www.traildamage.com/ and based on what I saw in 2009 around Ouray, CO, I would say the stock van could do level 3 rated trails, 4s after you have some experience under your belt. With experience 2" lift will probably get you through 5s, 4" will get you 6s.

Please remember to shift out of Drive during more advanced off-road travel. Shifting into 2nd or 1st will keep the transmission cooler and assist in braking on descents.

Blueprints for Astro Rock Rails
http://astrosafarivans.org/bb2/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5634

Blueprints for Astro Skid Plate
http://astrosafarivans.org/bb2/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=85

 

[TroySmith80]

Thanks for the info, Aaron. Good to know. I'll be anxious to hear about the results of your 2" + 31" tires experiment. The good news about my van being the older style is that it sounds like they have a little more room in the fenders (from what i've read anyway), and since i got the van for $500 i won't cry to much if i have to hack and pound on the sheet metal a bit. It's actually in pretty good shape though, so i don't want to thrash on it too hard.

Seems like i've heard of several people (probably over on the astro forums) mention running 235/75-15 on a stock van (no lift at all). So i'd think you should be fine with a lift. My van needs tires right now and i'm not ready to make a decision on lift kit yet, so i think i'll look for some temporary used tires, maybe 235/75 to hold me over. If i go with a 4" lift i'll probably want larger tires.

 

[ihatemybike]

I tried 235/75R15s Firestone Wilderness ATs on my 2WD 1994, big time rubbing on the back of the front wheel wells while turning.

I had 235/70R15 BFG Radial TAs on my 2000 AWD, light rubbing near full lock.

Bought my 31s from someone on CL. Goodyear Wranglers with probably enough tread for a season. Only cost me 80 bones.

 

[ihatemybike]

Grumpy is almost back to mobile status. I'm halfway through clearancing the back of the wheel wells. Did the driver's side today to figure out what needs to be done. Not too bad. Have to pull some sheet metal back, then cut and pound down the pinch weld. When done most people won't even be able to tell the body has been modified.

 

[scoutkid]

Take it from a guy who has taken every step from stock tires to 235's to 33's to 35's to 37's to 42's.... just go big the first time, it will save you money in the end!!

(not in a van, but the same principle applies!)

 

[TroySmith80]

Yeah, i'm definitely planning on only paying real dollars ONCE for a good set of tires. I'll spend <100 for a set of temporary tires that are simply safer than the half-rotted tires i have now, until i can sort out what size if tires I want and then buy good ones.

One of the main questions i have is how much difference there is in the amount of work and difficulty of installation of the 2" kit as compared to the 4" kit. Is the 4" considerably more work or more difficult?

As i look online at pictures of vans with the 2" lift, they often look a little lower than what i'd like ideally. But, when i look at pictures of 4" vans, they generally look like they are a little higher than i'd like. Is it really only a 2" difference between the kits? It often looks like more. I'm guessing that a 3" lift might be perfect for me.

 

[ihatemybike]

2" or 4" the amount of work will be about the same. The body on 2" lifts ends up being about 3" higher, 4" lifts about 6" higher. This is due to the increase in tire diameters available to each lift. Grumpy with the body mods to fit the 31s is sitting roughly 4" higher. So far normal driving hasn't caused the tires to rub. Did get some rubbing turning into a uphill driveway.

 

[BigAl]

I did 2" on mine recently. Ran into problems with front body mounts that were rusted out. You said it was a $500 dollar van. If you buy new 31s, you wil be doubling its value.:elkgrin:

You can start with 2", then go to 4 later. None of the work precludes the other. I pieced together my own lift. You can buy the (6) 2" body spacers for $3 each. Source your own bolts and buy 2" lift shackles for $70. My total lift was less than $100. If you search the astro forums hard you can find all the part numbers and vendors. Otherwise there are only 1 or 2 "kits" on the market and they are pricey.

 

[ihatemybike]

Um, yeah. I had the same problem. In fact the driver's side front mount really isn't connected to the rest of the vehicle. Have a core support sitting in the garage though.

 

[TroySmith80]

Thanks for the addtional feedback guys.

I got the van for $500 but am ok with having a total investment of a few thousand bucks if it makes a really cool rig out of it. It has 96,000 miles on it and has been sitting since 2004. Got it running and took it camping the other night. Seems to drive well, haven't used it much because the tires are cracked and potentially unsafe.

I think i'll just do the 4" lift if i buy a kit. I did see a thread somewhere where the author posted part numbers (Fastenal i think) for the sub-frame bolts. Sourcing or making my own spacer pucks would be easy enough. I like the look of the adjustable rear shackles from OLV but they do seem a bit pricey. The problem is in the back, i have the old fiberglass leaf spring. It's pretty wide and i'm not sure if there's anything easy i could do to get rear lift because of that goofy setup. The appeal of the kit for me is definitely just the ease of getting everything with one phone call. I have an older van so i'll need rear springs and the parts to convert from the fiberglass leaves to regular ones, and should probably swap to short torsion bars also...

Ordered a 12v fridge from home depot the other day. A Whynter (Edgestar) 65qt. Pretty excited about that. If i can figure out an interior layout i like and get a bit of a lift, it will be a pretty sweet little rig. A pop top would be the icing on top. I definitely miss the interior space and camper setup of my VW Westy... but the astro has several advantages.

 

[ihatemybike]

To bad you are so far away, I'd let you swap leafs with my 1997 parts van for free.

 

[burt]

Ive been screwing around with my 03 awd alot lately and I can give you where Im at so far. I also needed tires immediately and had no lift or kit and knew I had to have one so I pinned the torsion bars and got 30x 9.50s on there with a little sawzalling. When I realized how much better I liked the ride and handling with the bars pinned I was hooked on the project. Tires cleared on normal driving unloaded but rubbed (sometimes violently) off road. Got OV 4" kit and got to work. To make long story a little shorter went through a few configeurations and as it sits now I have stock rear shackles with the kits spring pack, rancho 5000s, the 2" body lift and pinned stock torsion keys. Also relocated upper ball joints to under control arm and put bumper reloction brackets on there. With this set up it handles awesome, has a bunch of travel and articulation and does not rub even loaded with some weight off road. Hope that helps, I'll post more later if you want

 

[TroySmith80]

Ha, thanks Aaron... too bad!

Burt, that sounds very interesting. I'd love to hear more details about your process and why you decided not to use the 4" kit. Pics are always great too. I've never heard of relocating the ball joint, is that common? What is your hub-center to fender arch dimension now?

 

[burt]

Well I used most of the kit. I havent used the reindexed keys yet because I like the way it handles with the torsions cranked all the way. Mabe its cause Im used to big diesel trucks but it feels better stiffer to me. With the body lift it still has clears the 245 70 r16 (approx 30x9.50) and has plenty of travel. Different people have different taste in rides but I wouldent want it any plusher. With the ov shackles and spring pack for the rear it was a little taller than needed to match the front so I put the stock ones(shackles) back on and it sits perfectly even with a normal load in the back. The spring pack with off road shocks makes a really nice ride. It handles way better on the street to. I think the way I did it was mostly trying to perfect it in relation to the tires which were the biggest ones I could fit (kinda)without installing anything. For 31"s Id probably switch shackles and keys tho. The ball joint relocation kit is just grade 8 bolts to replace the stock ones. You simply unbolt it (the upper ball joint) manuver it to the bottom and bolt it back on with stronger bolts. It gives everything more room and lets it articulate more. As far as I can tell this set up is just sick so far. I think if thats not big enough you might be pushing it with an astro (dunno might do it anyway). Vertically the hub to fender is 20.75". Im far from an astro expert just an enthuseist so if I gave any idiotic advise hopefully (for both our sakes) someone like Aaron will set it staight. How do you post pics?