AT trailer fails the test

[Hill Bill E.]

. However, Hill Bill E could you tell me what manner of use the AT was made for? Thanks very much

Sure! I'm betting it wasn't made to be drug behind a truck at 50-70 MPH down the roads they were traveling, all the while not doing any repairs that were warranted.

In my eyes, and I'm sure many will agree with me, the AT was meant to go where they did, and not only survive, but thrive, and make the trip a great experience.

Just not at 'Warp Speed'.:Wow1:

I am 99% sure, that people who spend thier own hard earned money on a trailer like the AT, would not treat it in such a manner.

Reading from thier blog, they were pretty much "Hell bent on election" and only worried about the cars they were 'testing'

As stated earlier, had they fixed the trailer when the shock broke (much like they fixed the cars when something happened) the trailer would have done well, even though it was put into an enviorment it wasn't really designed for.


Last I checked, none of the guys who run Baja races, drag an AT behind them.

Now the people who go to Baja on a trip, that's a different story:coffeedrink:

 

[Explorer 1]

The Russian Roads.....

After scanning that/reading a bit, it doesn't suprise me.

It seems as if they were, as my dad used to put it, "Driving like a mad God after a heathen"


I highly doubt they engineered the AT's to survive high speed chases on horrible roads.

And a 'chase' is exactly what I get from the blog, sounds like they were beating the snot out of the little car, and the Equator with the trailer was trying to keep up.

I don't know all the details of the trip but the roads between east and west in Russian aren't all that bad. I know this is listed as a great adventure and expedition but people drive the same roads just about everyday in passenger cars.

My experience with welds is that a washboard road will find any and every weakness and exploit it.

Thanks,
Fred
Explorer 1

 

[campausa]

Hill Bill E thanks for that. Clearly it seems that had the proper repair been done on the stainless line then the chain reaction that caused the suspension destruction would not have occurred. Also it seems had the roof rack been latched down, it would not have broken off. And it seems had the spare wheel carrier had the new design it would not have broken off either.

I recall back in 2004 we have problems with our Campa axles - bad wheel bearings and we had two trailers have wheels fall off! So I am most familiar with these issues and the challenges associated with building a product to take this kind of abuse.

Stuff breaks and more so at speed on bad roads. I think the bottom line is that if you are driving [or towing] down bad roads [at any speed], then do regular inspection and maintenance and most certainly fix something if it breaks. This should apply to both vehicles and trailers regardless of who the manufacturer is. Also drive [and tow] within the limitations of your vehicle / trailer. This is really common sense.

There are some great products out there, vehicles and trailers alike, that are produced by different manufactures and each with their own strengths and and imperfections. In New Zealand I have seen utility trailers take an incredible pounding off road and come back for more. In South Africa I thoroughly used my father-in-law's Venter trailer [a utility trailer with a box and nose cone] off road for six years and a high speed and I had no probems with it.

Obviously if you use something maintain it, if it breaks then fix it. Those things that break less and require less maitenance do however get a better reputaion than those things that require more maintenance and break more frequently.

I think what really matters regardless of what you drive or tow, if it makes you happy then that is great. No need to make excuses or justfications about individuals and what they may or may not do. Just have fun with what you have whether it be a $500 utility trailer or an AT or a Sherpa or a Campa - they all have their strengths and inperfections.

The "Suzukis Across Siberia" article that wrote about the "ill fated AT" is a great learning opportunity for AT to make a better product and it seems Mario and Martyn have done just that - well done.

 

[indiedog]

If anyone seriously expected an AT product to never have a failure then you don't live in the real world. No doubt it ups the status of the cars on trial if the "off road" support gear fails while the cars don't.

As stated the best thing AT can do is learn from it. Then those idealist fan boys and critics alike can rest assured knowing that from this day on the AT product will be even better than before.

And when you get down to it, it's a trailer, no more, no less.

 

[bobDog]

I'm not worried about the soundness of our engineering.

Given the speed being traveled, the conditions of the trail, and the fact the failure happened early in the trip my faith in the design is even deeper. The trailer made it through hell in one piece.

The source of all the problems was a freak failure of a high pressure reinforced hose. I'm 100% confident the same trailer could do the trip again with no mishap. But when components fail your ultimate outcome is a direct result of decisions you make at the time of failure.

OK let me clarify that....geeeez.....did the buyer discuss w/ the vendor what they were going to do w/ the unit? If not then what if the buyer took the unit beyond the normal usage peramiters of expected norm.....even if those happened in the beginning of the trip. Now just to add to the idea....what if the damages occurred in the beginning of the trip and the tower (sp) drug the damaged AT down the 'road' for the rest of the trip. Would the said damaged AT be more likely to come apart during the rest of the abuse. Good God....:coffeedrink: It seems to me they got this trailer cause it said "OffRoad" on it. Give me break.

 

[bobDog]

OK let me clarify that....geeeez.....did the buyer discuss w/ the vendor what they were going to do w/ the unit? If not then what if the buyer took the unit beyond the normal usage peramiters of expected norm.....even if those happened in the beginning of the trip. Now just to add to the idea....what if the damages occurred in the beginning of the trip and the tower (sp) drug the damaged AT down the 'road' for the rest of the trip. Would the said damaged AT be more likely to come apart during the rest of the abuse. Good God....:coffeedrink: It seems to me they got this trailer cause it said "OffRoad" on it. Give me break.

Maybe I missed it or forgot.....but how heavy was this AT loaded down?

 

[bobDog]

Not much of this made sense to me so I reread the whole thread as I had sort of read it as a patch this patch that and now it sounds like AT did their part and the buyer had no idea what was up w/ trailers. It just wasn't what they needed and they most likely did not convey to the manufacture what they needed......Sure doesn't change my view of AT.....If I get to wanting a trailer it will be AT.:sombrero:

 

[Mc Taco]

What irks me is that the testers did not properly repair the trailer, and then use the subsequent damage to degrade the trailer to boost their product. I find that a little disingenuous on their part.

I also never really like the way folks like to tear down those that have achieved a modicum of success. That certain amount of glee that comes through when a hero stumbles is what I find distasteful.



Disclaimer:
I don't own an AT nor foresee being able to afford one soon. I have met Martyn or Mario once at an off road show, but couldn't pick them out of a photo line up. I am not a mindless devotee of AT or M&M. Just a guy who doesn't like seeing people being cast in an unfair light.

 

[bobDog]

What irks me is that the testers did not properly repair the trailer, and then use the subsequent damage to degrade the trailer to boost their product. I find that a little disingenuous on their part.

I also never really like the way folks like to tear down those that have achieved a modicum of success. That certain amount of glee that comes through when a hero stumbles is what I find distasteful.



Disclaimer:
I don't own an AT nor foresee being able to afford one soon. I have met Martyn or Mario once at an off road show, but couldn't pick them out of a photo line up. I am not a mindless devotee of AT or M&M. Just a guy who doesn't like seeing people being cast in an unfair light.

Yeah, that's it....X2 :sombrero: I'll just shutup now and you talk ok.....your better at it then me.(I am)

 

[chasingdreams]

I also never really like the way folks like to tear down those that have achieved a modicum of success. That certain amount of glee that comes through when a hero stumbles is what I find distasteful.

Well put Mr. Mc Taco!

 

[deepmud]

I was finally going to post this today - but I'm glad it's already here.

I read the article. They glossed over how rough they treated ALL the vehicles in the magaizine - I googled and found the blog of the Suzuki car test - they were seriously thrashing those cars.

The trucks got OME suspensions, they were not stock.

The road description reminded me of driving the AlCan in the 70s - you got to swap LOTS of tires, you rattled your teeth out on chatter-bumps, you saw a lot of amazing scenery ( the AlCan is still gorgeous but the beatings on your rig aren't what they used to be) - what annoys me is the way both the blog and the article seem to not understand remote driving - they barely kept the cars on round wheels, but the trailer that "failed" they never mention swapping a tire.

They are lucky they didn't get to find out what "failed" really means.

At one point, the motorcycle rider is taking a ride in the car and he's surprised by the loud noises the suspension is making. It was a rough trip. The remote res. shocks were a nice idea, but when I go remote, I don't bring "new" things along, I bring what has worked or what I know I can fix. I would have swapped out the airbags just like AT did, but would not have run a "new" shock design.

Subscribed

 

[twisted63]

A $15,000 OFF-ROAD trailer should be able to withstand more abuse than a SEDAN, especially when touted as the best of its kind.

As for Martyn and Mario, I’m sure they are wonderful people, this is not personal. If you separate the people from their product the conclusion is the AT fails to live up to what it claims.

Go buy a utility trailer, or build you own like so many do, and use the balance to go on an adventure. You will be better off.

 

[Marcie's Disco]

What irks me is that the testers did not properly repair the trailer, and then use the subsequent damage to degrade the trailer to boost their product. I find that a little disingenuous on their part.

I also never really like the way folks like to tear down those that have achieved a modicum of success. That certain amount of glee that comes through when a hero stumbles is what I find distasteful.

Disclaimer:
I don't own an AT nor foresee being able to afford one soon. I have met Martyn or Mario once at an off road show, but couldn't pick them out of a photo line up. I am not a mindless devotee of AT or M&M. Just a guy who doesn't like seeing people being cast in an unfair light.

Best post of the thread :clapsmile

A $15,000 OFF-ROAD trailer should be able to withstand more abuse than a SEDAN, especially when touted as the best of its kind.

As for Martyn and Mario, I'm sure they are wonderful people, this is not personal. If you separate the people from their product the conclusion is the AT fails to live up to what it claims.

Go buy a utility trailer, or build you own like so many do, and use the balance to go on an adventure. You will be better off.

I will agree with you on the point that the AT trailer should be expected to endure the rough but very reasonable roads encountered and I am sure 9 times out of 10 they would. I disagree in your assessment of a utility trailers ability to stay intact over hundreds and hundreds of miles of washboard and potholes. My experience with utility trailers is short leaf springs, high spring rates and no dampeners. Not an optimum combo for staying together on rough surface at highway speed. If I intended to use the trailer and it's contents for the duration of the trip that length, I would place my bet on an AT each time. I am not an AT owner and unless my life and leisure makes a drastic change I never will be, so I have no allegiance to AT or reason to gloss them to maintain resale values. I am however, impressed with their active involvement with their customers and like what I have seen of their trailers.

 

[1leglance]

This is one of the reasons I in a love/hate relationship with sponsorship when I comes to Disabled Explorers.
What do I do when a company offers a product as a sponsorship and that product fails?
Do I be honest with the public that holds an expectation that I be honest and protect them from wasting hard earned dollars?
Or do I keep quiet to protect the sponsor who holds an expectation that I help them sell more product?
Do I risk future donations from the public if they find I wasn't open about the failures?
Do I risk future sponsorships from companies that don't want to risk me telling about product failures?

Well in the end I have to be honest with myself more than anyone else and it has been eating me up on this issue in particular.

I really like Mario & Martyn a ton, they are great guys and have done a ton to build up the Overland Industry. But I also have experienced problems with Adventure Trailer products and due to how much I like them I have kept quiet, as have others. And in the end I think that hurts all of us...them, customers and the community.

On our Disabled Explorers Camino del Diablo (Devils Highway) Desert Solitude Adventure we needed a way to haul our borrowed ActionTrackchair (tank treaded electric wheelchair)

James - TrailMonkey was kind enough to loan us his new Adventure Trailers motorcycle trailer. This thing is amazing. Meant to haul at least 2 dual sport moto's, has a water tank, batteries and the AT off road suspension. And that was a super kind gesture of his to loan us a pretty new trailer that he paid very good money for!
The ActionTrackchair weighs 350lbs so I don't think we overloaded the trailer it is was being pulled by J Brandon who is a very capable driver, not a mad man like I can be

But when J came across the radio to say that the trailer wheel just passed him I knew we had trouble.

But luckily we had another Adventure Trailer owner Justin-Gear along with his trailer and not only did he find the parts back along the trail but he was able to help with the repair. His knowledge came about because he had had failures with his trailer.

We were able to use a Sat phone to try and reach out to Mario, Martyn or anyone at AT, honestly I can't remember if we got through as I was pretty freaked out. Being in charge of the trip, making sure we got the disabled participant home safely, not wanting to tell Jame the trailer was destroyed, being told by my trip mates that I shouldn't tell this story in public...way too much pressure for something that was supposed to be a great time for our participant.

Now I have used and abused alot of products and found them amazing like the ARB X-Jack that we used on this mis-adventure and many time since

And having paid full price for it I know that when I say it is great I really mean it, and if it ever fails I can say so with no ethical concern.....that isn't always the case with sponsorships, especially as a small non-profit.

On the Overland Training Baja Trip we had the AT Teardrop which I believe was the prototype. Before we crossed into Baja the suspension failed and it had repeated failures while I was with the main group.
I can't speak to the exact nature of the issues as that will be up to Graham or someone else who actually worked on it.

I know that another Baja trip done by a media group had major suspension failures (I will leave it up to those people to chime in or not as per their relationship with AT).

Now I really really like Mario & Martyn, and many other people do also. And sometimes we want to protect those we like from anything negative. However I think not making these issues public have hurt everyone in the long run.

 

[campausa]

Lance,

I really respect what you say. I applaud your courage to promte honesty and integrity. Well Done!