ATGATT - Just another opinion....

[Azrocks]

This is a quick article I wrote in response to a "Yahoo Answers" question regarding ATGATT (All The Gear All The Time). I do a fair amount of expedition type motorcycle riding. I do a pretty good job of suiting up for these trips and am pretty decent in general in my day to day riding. I'm not one to really preach to others regarding the use or lack of use of safety gear. I think it's a personal choice based on many factors.

Anyway, let me now what your thoughts are. :sombrero:

ATGATT - Do I believe

I was looking around at some of the questions asked at Yahoo Answers. For some reason I get some sick enjoyment at the motorcycle section and see what is being asked at any given time. I try to answer questions when I feel like I have something to offer and keep my mouth shut when I don’t.

Last night I came across a question that for some reason I thought was interesting. It is as follows:
Question: Do you all believe in ATGATT?
The member who posed the question then followed up with this:

I have a lot of protective gear, the thought of getting into an accident and knowing that I left my protective gear in the closet bothers me more that the thought of having an accident.

This may be a left over emotion from chain sawing firewood and being reluctant to place all the protective gear on for just a small amount of exposure, I couldn’t do it! The thought of sawing threw a leg or a shoulder and then having to deal with remembering that I selectively chose to leave my protective gear in my pick-up forced me to use every bit of gear in even the smallest exposure.

I had a past seasonal job (Winter) where I had to wear safety glasses 100% of the time. That forced me to adapt to cold wet weather and using safety glasses and I to this day do not expose myself to any eye dangers without wearing safety glasses all the time!

So with that history: I wear every bit of my protective gear that is rational to wear. The only exclusion is using my motorcycle to transit to work wearing less than full dedicated armored Sidi vertigo boots that are painful to walk for a motorcycling exposure of 4 miles.

The use or lack of use of protective gear is always a hot topic. People are very passionate about how and when they use protective gear when riding motorcycles. There is a wide spectrum of opinions and every camp is convinced they are right and everybody else is wrong.

Here’s what I think….

Do I believe in it ATGATT. Sure. Why not? It makes sense to be protected to the hilt every single second one is on a motorcycle. Do I personally do it ALL the time? Nope.

Everything in life is a calculated risk. Getting out of bed in the morning is a risk. Riding a motorcycle is a risk. How much risk a person is willing to accept is based on a lot of factors such as age, genetics, personality, etc. Just riding a motorcycle suggests one is probably at a higher than average level of risk that one will assume.

People who engage in high risk activities then have the choice to make as to how far they will go to mitigate the risk associated with that activity. People who ride motorcycles mitigate their risk by self-imposing rules as to what they will and won’t do. For example, some people won’t ride a foot on a motorcycle without a helmet but allow shorts and a T-shirt. Other will only ride secondary roads while others only race on the track. Others only ride dirt while other only ride street. Some strictly adhere to ATGATT. Others will ride butt naked at high speeds at night with no headlights. If we ride motorcycles we all consciously or unconsciously have a standard of what we will or won’t do in regards to safety gear.

I ride about 60 miles a on the freeway for my commute to work. I ride my bikes every chance I get. I ride in good weather and in bad. I ride dirt and street. I like all types of motorcycles. If it has two wheels and an engine, I probably will ride it.

I don’t always follow ATGATT. While I always wear a helmet, I’m usually not always fully suited up. I have crashed off-road and on the street. I have received injuries that I probably wouldn’t have if I was fully suited up. I realize it was my choice and my fault. A high pain tolerance, a history of high risk jobs and pastimes, and “it’s just how I am” lead me to accept a high level of risk in my life.

So what do I think about the guy passing me the opposite direction not wearing a helmet, shorts, flip-flops, and a T-shirt? Not much aside from the usual motorcycle wave. He has made his choice and has to live with the consequences that may or may not happen.
We all make choices regarding risk. What we decide is personal and we have to live, or die, based on what we decide. No more, no less.

To view original article click HERE.

 

[Cabrito]

Good post.

The ATGATT can be a hotly debated topic for sure. I think I fall in the same category as you do. I mostly ride all geared up, but occasional short hops end up being without the overpants or in my shorts and street shoes. I too have been down numerous times on the street and in the dirt. My gear has served me well on those occasions where my body left the bike and ended up on the ground. I've also has some bad accidents where I whished I'd had more gear on at the time. One such bad get-off happened back in the early 90's at about 75mph on the freeway. My jeans did a lousy job of protecting my thigh and butt cheek... Since that incident I've always gone with more protective gear.

I try not to judge others on their choices. People are going to do what they're gonna do..

 

[jerdog53]

I believe in and practice MOTGATT as in most of the gear all of the time. I don't always wear pants, motorcycle pants that is but always have on boots gloves jacket and helmet.

 

[Wiley]

It is stupid not to wear all of the protection....of course I am wearing hiking boots and jeans currently when I ride, but that will change. (need to adjust brake before I can use the bike with my MX boots. but pants I have not figured out yet)


When I 1st got this bike a few months ago (been riding for a few years) I wore a hoodie everyday for 1 month while I waited for my armored jacket to come in the mail. 2 days after I got the jacket it was hot for Socal, so I drove to lunch without it, since the mall is only 2 blocks away. No issues, but leaving work the same day, from the very same spot in the parking garage I have been using for the month, I go down, badly hurting my forearm and wrist, loosing use of my arm for 3 months.

Had I had that hoodie rather than the jacket there is no question my arm would have shattered, I dont care if it is 2 min or 2 hours, I am now ATGATT, just need to get those pants.

 

[T.Low]

I'm an ATGATT rider, but I tend to avoid riding on the road: too many rules, too many Camrys, too much texting. And wheelies are frowned upon..

 

[MarcFJ60]

I think the term "ATGATT" oversimplifies things, as do most acronyms. There are only two pieces of safety gear that will likely save your life: A helmet and a neck brace. Everything else, for the most part, is designed to minimize non-lethal injuries (abrasions, broken bones) and recovery time. Yet how many of even the most ardent ATGATTers wear a neck brace? So they'll lecture somebody for riding in sneakers, but they'll skip a neck brace. They'll make fun of the guy wearing a denim jacket, but have no issue with switching to mesh gear in the summer from their heavy, more protective cold weather gear. The fact is, the ATGATTer that foregoes a neck brace or switches to less protective summer gear is making a choice of comfort over safety. It is a bit hypocritical to then criticize somebody for making the same choice (jeans instead riding pants, sneakers instead of MC boots) simply because they choose a different spot on the comfort-safety scale.

For me there is a sliding scale on safety gear based upon what it does and the inconvenience. Helmet is obvious, and then a jacket and gloves because they are simple and not too uncomfortable. Motorcycle specific boots and pants can be a hassle as they sometimes require a change of clothes and are generally nowhere near as comfortable and stylish as street clothes. And frankly hiking boots are a reasonable alternative motorcycle boots for most riding.

With all that said - I almost always wear all my gear (except a neck brace) for the reason the OP pointed out - I don't want to be kicking myself knowing I had the gear in the closet. But that's my choice and although I may not agree with what others wear - it is totally their business. And while hiking boots and jeans may not be the best protection for those that wear them, in 99.99% of accidents they'll probably work good enough. But for that other .01%, your jeans will evaporate and your feet will be twisted entirely off.

 

[Wiley]

I think the term "ATGATT" oversimplifies things, as do most acronyms. There are only two pieces of safety gear that will likely save your life: A helmet and a neck brace.

Sorry I have to disagree, the people I watched bleed out had helmets on, its was the lack of proper footwear that caused them to not survive, proper boots would have most likely kept them alive. If you look at a pair of gloves, or pants, that have been shredded after an accident you will see they are designed to keep you alive, so while I get your point, I do not agree with the rationale behind it. I dont personally lecture people, to each their own, but I myself would put boots on before a neck brace any day of the week due to my riding style and locations, as they will be much more beneficial to me for most crashes.

I think a neck brace is a valid piece of equipment and have shopped around a little, but there is not as much data on them regarding accidents. If you are commuting you can certainly go down and need one, but its much less likely than if you are riding on dirt. To me no matter where you are sneakers will not do jack, so I look at it more in terms of the order, than all or nothing. Knee braces are another piece of equipment I am struggling with, I rank it the same as a neck brace, it would be beneficial, but its lower on my list of gear to buy.

While your neck brace is a valid point, I do not believe it is as beneficial as the other pieces of gear if your just on pavement, which validates your main point, its up to each of us to decide. The more we were the better off we will be:bike_rider:

 

[Cole]

34 years and many hundreds of thousands of miles of riding.

Gear is more than just protection, its comfort. It allows me to focus on having fun on the motorcycle. I'm not longer dealing with things like being cold or hot, rocks or wind in the eyes, etc.

I've come to realize that good gear really is more comfortable to ride with than any alternative. My heavy ***, fully armored KLIM pants for example flow more air on a hot day than nearly any other type of leg covering, so why not wear them?

My helmet contains bluetooth for streaming music and answering my wifes phone calls to explain that I'm "only" 250 miles out of the way:sombrero:

My jacket also contains my camel back for something to drink.

Pants flow great air.

Boots work better on the shifter and brake for more fun riding.

Gloves keep my hands clear of sweat so my brake and clutch work is spot on when I need it.


To ME, this is no different than putting on a swim suit to do water sports, or wearing ski gear to ski in.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Sorry I have to disagree, the people I watched bleed out had helmets on, its was the lack of proper footwear that caused them to not survive, proper boots would have most likely kept them alive.

There are always cases at the margins. The number of motorcycle accidental deaths that could have likely been avoided with boots or gloves is small compared to deaths and lifelong injuries to the head, neck and spine. That's true of most any activity, though. It's also a statistical anomaly that injury rates have gone up over time as the proliferation of helmets across all these sports. Years ago a lot of people weren't hurt because they died skiing or riding bicycles and what-not. Now that most people wear helmets (or at least much improved ones) and survive the really serious stuff, so we see more broken collarbones and ankles. We hobble around a few months but we are still alive and not vegetables. I personally don't understand riding without a helmet but I also don't wear a flack jacket every time I ride, so I'm not about to judge what ATGATT means to anyone else. I have a core of things I wear every time I ride and the overall kit varies with the trip. The majority of my riding is 5 miles across town on surface streets to and from work, which I don't feel requires the same gear as a weekend trip or a trip with highway involved. Heck, I ride my bicycle along the same route and sometimes even hit the same speeds with the same cars around me and I don't feel any less vulnerable in a comically smaller helmet and spandex.

 

[Azrocks]

I believe in and practice MOTGATT as in most of the gear all of the time.

THATS funny!!! I wonder if that makes me MOTGMOTT as in most of the gear most of the time.

- Kartch

 

[Azrocks]

Sorry I have to disagree, the people I watched bleed out had helmets on, its was the lack of proper footwear that caused them to not survive:

I would really like to hear the details on this! As an Emergency Department RN at a Trauma center, rarely does even full amputation of a limb cause a person to bleed out. It does happen but it's not the norm. There is no way I would ever say that boots are the primary tool for safety on a motorcycle. They factor in, but not very far up on the list as far as increase in survival rate in a crash.

 

[Wiley]

I would really like to hear the details on this! As an Emergency Department RN at a Trauma center, rarely does even full amputation of a limb cause a person to bleed out. It does happen but it's not the norm. There is no way I would ever say that boots are the primary tool for safety on a motorcycle. They factor in, but not very far up on the list as far as increase in survival rate in a crash.

The bottom of the womans legs looked like spaghetti from the shins down, boots would have definitely prevented her death, as her upper body, which had proper gear, was relatively untouched.

To each his own, stay safe.

 

[Azrocks]

I'm not doubting you, it's just very rare. You post made it sound like you saw multiple instances of this happening. I'm a believer in good footwear. I went down on the street once and because of good boots avoided any serious foot injury. That accident was my lesson into the worthlessness of jeans as protection. Haha.

I think there is a huge difference between protective gear that is life saving and gear that is designed to avoid or reduce injury. As another user above stated a neck brace and a helmet would most likely be the biggest life saving measures yet you rarely see neck braces used or mentioned.

 

[Wiley]

In the past I have searched for stats that show that a neck brace reduces motorcycle injuries vs other pieces of gear, but mostly found info on causes, rather than results of accidents. I am interested in seeing the numbers if anyone has them, but I do not think its broken down that way, its usally focuses on helmets, speed, alcohol content, etc. I dont doubt the validity of a neck brace, but I personally (no real reason) dont feel like a neck brace come into play for most accidents as opposed to other injuries from improper gear.

Each accident is different, and many factors come into play. We have to decide for ourselves, so I look at the cost of the gear, and the likely hood of needing it to rank the order of importance for me, I realize others wont match my opinion.

When I responded to the bleed out comments I edited the part out of the guy and only focused on the woman who died, the guy was alive but bleeding pretty bad as he only had a helmet and gloves on. Once rescue showed up I left as there was nothing I could do, I do not know if he survived, but as he rolled around in his own pool of blood he was clearly in a lot of physical, and probably emotional pain, as someone he cared about was dead due to lack of gear. I left him out of the follow up post due to my lack of facts, but this was one instance, the plural was because of the two of them, not multiple accidents, I should have clarified.



I think we all agree each piece of gear we put on increases our odds regardless to what piece it is, as does driving the speed, and taking safety courses, and a million other variables out of our control. **** I am just going to walk from now on, you guys have ruined it for me, I was obliviously safe before.

edit: You guys are probably right, I picture most crashes occuring at 70+ on a highway and limbs ripping off, but crashes happen at all speeds. I also did not intend to focus on deaths, though my comment that spurred this one did. ATGATT is to reduce any injury, which was my point, but the other comment made it sound like a helmet and brace should be the 1st pieces of protective gear otherwise your wasting your time, and to not bother with anything else, even though I am sure that wasn't the point.