Attaching DIY camper direct to Tacoma frame.

[Deleted member 144299]

I nixed the 3-point on my build because I didn't want the extra height and complexity and subframe that a pivoting mount would have. And I don't think I really need it. Going with poly cab mounts.

Steel will be heavy. I'm guessing you have metal working experience, but IMO fiberglass, foam, and wood are the best camper materials. Wood of course needs to be fully protected from water, and joints screwed and glued. I had no experience, and it wasn't hard to learn fiberglass. Wet layup. I'm doing mostly flat panels with contoured cab-over and radiused edges, but you can make all sorts of interesting shapes if you want. I considered building it like an upside-down boat, with curved sheets. Make the shell out of foam, FG the outside, then just glue thin ply to the interior surface. Very aero but not very space efficient. Mine is nearly all FG and foam with some wood for mounting. The materials aren't expensive either if you know where to look.

Thanks for the advice! I've never worked with fiberglass but I tend to pick these things up easily, I will certainly look into it as a option. Steel would certainly be a last resort/compromise to accomplish my dream build. I am sure I will be asking a lot more questions, it's so amazing to have a community of folks who are willing to help!

 

[TernOverland]

Thanks for the advice! I've never worked with fiberglass but I tend to pick these things up easily, I will certainly look into it as a option. Steel would certainly be a last resort/compromise to accomplish my dream build. I am sure I will be asking a lot more questions, it's so amazing to have a community of folks who are willing to help!

A subframe for a Tacoma can be built with no additional height. There is plenty of room to build supporting structure below the frameline. If it is a flat bed, the height will be dictated by tire clearance. I agree that steel will end up heavy, and weight is a primary issue on any Tacoma build. Bonding technologies, especially flexible bonding, are the future of camper construction. They allow for the use of many high tech composite sheet materials. There is no such thing as a perfectly rigid structure. Everything flexes on a vehicle to one degree or another. Anything that tries to resist, eventually breaks. As a side note, one common strategy of DIY or amatuer builders is to overbuild something to compensate an inherently poor design. Properly designed structures do not have to be massive. The weakest points are usually joints, but using heavier material in an effort to gain joint strength will inevitably lead to an overweight build. Bicycle frames are a great example of engineering that focuses on joint strength using very light tubing. My point is: take the time to research and design before you build. Test your ideas on small samples. before commiting to the larger project. As RRuff said, don't discount wood. If your skills or knowledge are limited, quality wood is easy to work with, and often gets forgotten amidst all the high tech buzz. It is flexible, and has high tensile and compressive strength. You just need to seal it and get the joint structure right. The custom boat world is a good resource for woodworking knowledge. Beware of too much fiberglass though. Fiberglass is actually NOT a lightweight material. It weighs about a pound per square foot for a 2mm sheet.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

I am so happy this thread exists! I've been mulling over a DIY camper for awhile now and I am finally starting to rough up the build. One of the biggest questions I have had has been about frame flex, having read up on 3 point mounting systems for larger expo rigs I am not sure if it applies to my short bed taco. My plan has been to just use rubber bushings and forgo a pivoting subframe. Maybe you guys can shine some light on this for me, everyone has great input! I am planing on a Maltec style design but keeping the camper separate from the cab, all aluminum frame and skin style build. Inside will be really simple with just a table, small cabinet, 15 gallon water tank and 1 house battery. Trying to keep it as light as possible!

So my question is do I need a pivoting frame with this? Again this super rough and early on but see the attached images, one is a Photoshop mock up of what I am looking to build the CAD is a quick mock up of the frame (in-prog).

Thanks for any help you guys can offer!
View attachment 498652View attachment 498653

Maltec uses a 100% carbon fiber box at about 200# in the shell form. Because they mainly use Land Cruiser they see no need to modify the frame in any way. The box bolts directly to the cab and the frame mounts with bushing that offer very little give. This set up has proved to stand up over time without issue. A Tacoma frame offers too much in flex IMO to solid mount a box to with seeing issues down the road if used in an off road application.

 

[NVLOC]

Malted has also affixed shells to the Hilux chassis. They have something figured out, that’s for sure. That said, I remember reading European Maltec owner reviews from early on (2012 ish) that had noted shell delamination and stress cracks after relatively short periods of off road use (2000km off road, 10 0000km total time since conversion) No doubt this is something Maltec has worked on. I wonder if their method of construction allows their shell to handle torsion better than a 1) composite panel / aluminium skeleton2) flatbed with box mounted structure. So much can be done to create give with weave lay-up.
200lbs shell is impressive. Have little doubt that this is adding less weight than has been removed by truncating the cab. That said, their is a point where very light could be too light? (puncture resistance, insulation, hinge mounting points, etc).

 

[Deleted member 144299]

I've been curious about Maltec's truck mounting process with the cut through, seems like doubling the frame flex problems? Plus that looks like a 4 door with half the cab removed, is that even possible!? I've honestly have never seen one in flesh, I really just wanted to box the back of my Tacoma and liked the design of Maltec. I am certainly not about to make a carbon fiber box! I think Tern's advice on flexing the frame once I have everything off is a good place to start. How much could 5 feet of frame really flex anyway... haha.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Maltec mounts the box to the frame when a Land Cruisers is used.

 

[Deleted member 144299]

Maltec mounts the box to the frame when a Land Cruisers is used.

I meant when they mount to a truck or do they only use full bodied vehicles like the Land Cruiser?

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

I meant when they mount to a truck or do they only use full bodied vehicles like the Land Cruiser?

I have only seen full body vehicles converted.

 

[TernOverland]

I've been curious about Maltec's truck mounting process with the cut through, seems like doubling the frame flex problems? Plus that looks like a 4 door with half the cab removed, is that even possible!? I've honestly have never seen one in flesh, I really just wanted to box the back of my Tacoma and liked the design of Maltec. I am certainly not about to make a carbon fiber box! I think Tern's advice on flexing the frame once I have everything off is a good place to start. How much could 5 feet of frame really flex anyway... haha.

So, here is your answer. The tire on the right is 20" off the ground (hard to tell from the camera angle) and the twist left to right is almost 3" across the 6' bed. All 3 other tires are on the ground. Bear in mind that this truck has a rear sway bar and a CBI Bushmaster bumper. A stock truck would flex even more. This is why these trucks do so well offroad. The rear suspension has about 8" of total travel, but the tire can traverse 20 inches because of the flex in the frame. You can also see that the 3 point deck is tracking right with the cab, The measured twist in the deck was only 1/4". Any camper that mounts to the bed or to the frame directly will see this torture. Anything that restrains this movement will limit the truck. The frame flex is part of the suspension.

 

[Ex Animo]

So, here is your answer. The tire on the right is 20" off the ground (hard to tell from the camera angle) and the twist left to right is almost 3" across the 6' bed. All 3 other tires are on the ground. Bear in mind that this truck has a rear sway bar and a CBI Bushmaster bumper. A stock truck would flex even more. This is why these trucks do so well offroad. The rear suspension has about 8" of total travel, but the tire can traverse 20 inches because of the flex in the frame. You can also see that the 3 point deck is tracking right with the cab, The measured twist in the deck was only 1/4". Any camper that mounts to the bed or to the frame directly will see this torture. Anything that restrains this movement will limit the truck. The frame flex is part of the suspension.View attachment 506624

Awesome! Thanks for the info and image, that is so good to know.

 

[wackyhacky76CO]

I have been rolling around these questions in my head for some time now as I look to the next evolution of my build, so thanks for all this information @LandCruiserPhil and @TernOverland as well as those who started asking these questions and provided information on this thread.

I always understood the frame flex being part of the suspension benefit for the Taco, but I also couldn't understand why only Cruisers or similar were being used in these Maltec and similar builds and never Tacomas or Hiluxes. When you really look at pictures of stripped frames (2nd Gen Tacoma versus an 80 series for instance) you can definitely understand it better regardless of their capacity to handle the weight, but why one would flex way more than the other. Which brings me to another question. If you were strengthen the frame of the Tacoma such that hard mounting to the frame (like Maltec is doing) is more feasible, can't you just overcome the issue of the reduced flame flex by improving suspension travel, ie long travel kits, rear shock relocation etc?

It's a dilemma for the DIY type builder. Most can't afford a carbon fiber box to save the weight (if anyone is selling them to begin with outside Maltec and I think they only do entire builds) or the labor/skill to cut off 3/4 of a LC body which has to be a considerable amount of work to do right. Therefore for most, the truck is the natural platform to go this DIY route, b/c the mid-size platform is better for tight trails, etc. My thought being, from a DIY perspective I can build the box myself, strengthen the frame myself and lastly do most of the mechanical work of improving suspension travel myself.

 

[javajoe79]

So, here is your answer. The tire on the right is 20" off the ground (hard to tell from the camera angle) and the twist left to right is almost 3" across the 6' bed. All 3 other tires are on the ground. Bear in mind that this truck has a rear sway bar and a CBI Bushmaster bumper. A stock truck would flex even more. This is why these trucks do so well offroad. The rear suspension has about 8" of total travel, but the tire can traverse 20 inches because of the flex in the frame. You can also see that the 3 point deck is tracking right with the cab, The measured twist in the deck was only 1/4". Any camper that mounts to the bed or to the frame directly will see this torture. Anything that restrains this movement will limit the truck. The frame flex is part of the suspension.View attachment 506624

I'd think that frame flexes more because of the absence of the bed and presence of the sway bar. I'd like to see the same test with a normal bed plus with and without the bar.

 

[rruff]

Which brings me to another question. If you were strengthen the frame of the Tacoma such that hard mounting to the frame (like Maltec is doing) is more feasible, can't you just overcome the issue of the reduced flame flex by improving suspension travel, ie long travel kits, rear shock relocation etc?

All the current 1-ton or less trucks have stiff boxed frames... except for US spec Toyotas. The new Tundra is boxed and probably the next iteration of the Tacoma will be also. Hiluxes are boxed.

If you really want to box your frame, you can make the suspension articulate better by using multiple thinner leaves... and no swaybar.

BTW, carbon skinned panels aren't really a weight saver... unless you are ok with reduced impact resistance.

I'd think that frame flexes more because of the absence of the bed and presence of the sway bar. I'd like to see the same test with a normal bed plus with and without the bar.

I got almost that much on my Tundra 8' bed, with the bed on and no swaybar. The bed offers very little resistance to torsion. The swaybar keeps the suspension from articulating... not sure if that will effect the degree of frame twist, though.

 

[Leighsjor]

I am so happy this thread exists! I've been mulling over a DIY camper for awhile now and I am finally starting to rough up the build. One of the biggest questions I have had has been about frame flex, having read up on 3 point mounting systems for larger expo rigs I am not sure if it applies to my short bed taco. My plan has been to just use rubber bushings and forgo a pivoting subframe. Maybe you guys can shine some light on this for me, everyone has great input! I am planing on a Maltec style design but keeping the camper separate from the cab, all aluminum frame and skin style build. Inside will be really simple with just a table, small cabinet, 15 gallon water tank and 1 house battery. Trying to keep it as light as possible!

So my question is do I need a pivoting frame with this? Again this super rough and early on but see the attached images, one is a Photoshop mock up of what I am looking to build the CAD is a quick mock up of the frame (in-prog).

Thanks for any help you guys can offer!
View attachment 498652View attachment 498653

Hey raggedphoto I’m curious if you’ve made any progress on your build? Would love to see an update.

 

[Alloy]

So, here is your answer. The tire on the right is 20" off the ground (hard to tell from the camera angle) and the twist left to right is almost 3" across the 6' bed. All 3 other tires are on the ground. Bear in mind that this truck has a rear sway bar and a CBI Bushmaster bumper. A stock truck would flex even more. This is why these trucks do so well offroad. The rear suspension has about 8" of total travel, but the tire can traverse 20 inches because of the flex in the frame. You can also see that the 3 point deck is tracking right with the cab, The measured twist in the deck was only 1/4". Any camper that mounts to the bed or to the frame directly will see this torture. Anything that restrains this movement will limit the truck. The frame flex is part of the suspension.View attachment 506624

Great Photo!

With 3" of side to side differential in the frame this means the suspension is absorbing 17" of the twist?

Is the truck lifted?

What is the hard stop preventing more twist?