Attention Conqueror Owners! Electrical Challenge Solved

[Dendy Jarrett]

Hey, Fellow Conqueror Owners.

For the past three years, we were challenged with the electronic panel in our Conquest.
We never could get the battery charger to charge the battery.
Then there would be times when the Shore power would work, and sometimes it would show AC on, but the indicator would be dim, and the sometimes it wouldn't work at all.

As some of you know, I just sold the Conquest and purchased a Conqueror Commander. Low and behold, it has a step up transformer included in the unit.

Turns out, the charge panels are set up strictly for 220 EURO (not 220 US) current. Apparently the units we all purchased out of Atlanta, they tried to wire them up to accept 110, but all the components don't work (i.e. the battery charger). This is probably why so many of you suffered "fan loss" in your units.

The step up transformer works like this: Shore power (US 110) connected to the outside of the trailer. Then the line inside the trailer from inside the shore power plugs into this aftermarket 3000 watt step up/step down transformer. There is a Euro 220 plug on the "out" on front of the transformer. There is a Euro Plug that plugs into that front "out" and from there runs to the Conqueror Power Unit.

Here is a picture of the transformer:

Of note: I had to figure this out on my own, as the first owners of the Conqueror were not involved in the hand off of the trailer to me. When I first got it, it had 110 running straight to the Conqueror Power Box. It would show the charger being on, but it was not charging. It would show that I had shore power, but the indicator lights on the power box were dim.

Once I determined this method outlined above, the entire system now works like a charm. The couple that had the trailer just had the transformer sitting on the floor. It is a 37 Pound brick, and you could easily break a toe on it. I plan to find a permanent place for it to be stored while being used that allows it to be strapped down.

Hope this makes some sense and is not too confusing. It just really opened my eyes to answers for the challenges some of us Conqueror owners have bounced e-mails around about.

Thanks
Dendy

 

[Rocket Ship]

Why won't they run on US 220? The only difference really is the hertz. Euro is 50, US is 60. And I'd be surprised if that transformer could change the Hz from 60 coming in, to 50 going out.

 

[Dendy Jarrett]

Why won't they run on US 220? The only difference really is the hertz. Euro is 50, US is 60. And I'd be surprised if that transformer could change the Hz from 60 coming in, to 50 going out.

Im not certain that it wouldn't but it would mean rewiring all the plugs to US spec 220 plugs, and if you do that ... just change the system to a 110 us spec system. This is a work around to make the system work like it is designed to work.

Additionally, I (like most people) don't have a convenient 220 US plug on the outside of my home, and most camp grounds don't either.

As to your comment about the transformer. It is designed to do just what you are contesting it doesn't (I say this in a non confrontational attitude - mind you).
All I can tell you is without the transformer - the system doesn't work like it is designed to work, and with it -- it is working flawlessly.

D

 

[dwh]

U.S. "220" is split-phase and doesn't use or need a neutral (it works hot-hot). U.S. 110 is single-phase (hot to neutral).

Some devices - such as electric dryers - will often have something inside (usually a timer) that runs on 110, and it won't work without a neutral, and so you often see dryer plugs wired with two hots and a neutral. The motor and heating element run off 220v split-phase (hot-hot) while the timer works off one leg of the split-phase and the neutral (hot-neutral).

So, in the U.S. 110v is hot-neutral, but 220v is hot-hot, NOT hot-netural.

Most of the rest of the world is 220v *single-phase* - i.e., 220v hot-neutral.

Some 220v single-phase stuff will work on 220v split-phase. Heating elements for instance. However most electronics designed to work on single-phase *won't* work on split-phase. Motors can often work off either - but you have to change the wiring connections.


Hence the need for a transformer, which bumps 110v single-phase up to 220v single-phase. It usually goes the other way too, steps 220v single-phase down to 110v single-phase.


I seem to recall that Doug Hackney carried a transformer on his rig, but when he left some campground in South America, he hard-wired the transformer to provide 110v to whoever at the campground needed it, and left it there as a gift to the campground.

BTW Doug, kudos on that. Nicely done.

 

[Rocket Ship]

Im not certain that it wouldn't but it would mean rewiring all the plugs to US spec 220 plugs, and if you do that ... just change the system to a 110 us spec system. This is a work around to make the system work like it is designed to work.

Additionally, I (like most people) don't have a convenient 220 US plug on the outside of my home, and most camp grounds don't either.

Fair enough.

I have 220V in the garage, but it's true that most people don't. Rewiring to US-spec plugs on the trailer is easy, but you're still stuck needing a 220V supply which isn't available everywhere you may travel.

I did have a look at the manufacturer's website, and I doubt that transformer changes 60Hz power to 50Hz. They certainly don't say anything about it. It would be complicated to do such a thing, you'd first need to rectify the 60Hz power and put it on a DC bus, then you'd need an inverter running at 50Hz turning it back into 50Hz A/C power. It's certainly possible, but would make the unit quite expensive, and they certainly don't mention it.

It doesn't matter a whole lot, as resistive loads don't care (heaters). And anything that is rectifying A/C to DC don't care (battery chargers, laptop power supplies, etc.) Very few things will care: CRT monitors, and that's all I can think of.

DWH, both the US 220V system, and 110V, and Euro 220V system are Single Phase. Referring to the US 220V system as "split phase" is technically incorrect. It's a mid-point neutral system. Your description of a drier's function is correct. Some components of the drier, or a stove, run on 110V, this is usually the electronics. The heating elements run on 220V. The supply of a neutral is simply an easy way to wire both 220V and 110V to the same device.

On an oscilloscope, Hot-Hot and Hot-Neutral, make no difference to the waveform. 110V Hot-Neutral still gives you a full Sine Waveform. The 220V "Hot-Hot" US system simply supplies two 110V waveforms 180° out of phase, which combine to give a potential difference of 220V. As far as an oscilloscope, or any other device is concerned, there is no difference between US 220V and European 220V. That is with the exception of 60Hz vs. 50Hz I already mentioned.

Your statement that some things will work on both 220V single phase and 220V "split phase" is incorrect. There is no difference. 220V is 220V. The only difference is grounding. In the US system, the mid-point neutral is connected to ground at the power supply, one leg is 110V "up", and the other leg is 110V "down". With the European system, one leg is connected to ground, and the other side is 220V "up". That, really, is the only difference. It's really a matter of safety. In Europe, the power regulators decided to err on the side of cost when they constructed their system. Every house requires only 2 supply wires. And the wiring to each outlet can be smaller since the voltage is twice as high, amperage is halved. The risk is, if a device should have an electrical fault, you now have 220V to ground.

In the US, they erred on the side of safety. Our common outlets are only supplied with 110V above ground. It requires wire twice as large, but it's safer. Even on the 220V outlets, each leg is only 110V relative to ground. One side is 110V "up", and the other is 110V "down". The only time you get 220V is when you bridge the two legs, which would be rare. The other reason this system is more expensive is because it requires 3 supply cables into the house. 110V "up", 110V "down", and the Neutral.

Good read if you're interested:

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_10/1.html

 

[dwh]

I did have a look at the manufacturer's website, and I doubt that transformer changes 60Hz power to 50Hz.

They generally don't alter the frequency. That may end up being a non-issue in the future, depending on what happens as a result of NERC's "experiment":

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/24/ap/tech/main20074275.shtml

DWH, both the US 220V system, and 110V, and Euro 220V system are Single Phase. Referring to the US 220V system as "split phase" is technically incorrect.

Technically incorrect; Agreed.

Nevertheless, it is widely accepted nomenclature. In fact...as I look over that page that you linked to, I see this (next to last paragraph):

"Power systems in American households and light industry are most often of the split-phase variety, providing so-called 120/240 VAC power. The term “split-phase” merely refers to the split-voltage supply in such a system. In a more general sense, this kind of AC power supply is called single phase because both voltage waveforms are in phase, or in step, with each other."

Your statement that some things will work on both 220V single phase and 220V "split phase" is incorrect. There is no difference.

There is a difference. One has one leg tied to the planet - the neutral. The other doesn't - there is no 220v to neutral/ground potential.

 

[Dendy Jarrett]

OK, you guys are W A Y over my head! All I know, Is I just took the trailer out for the weekend and it worked great with this set up. Power Coming in as shore is 110. 110 runs into step up transformer. 220 to Conqueror Power Unit (which includes battery charger) plugs into the front of the step up transformer. Also plugged a 110 multi plug into the front of the step up transformer on the 110 plug on the front. Powered a coffee pot and fan all weekend long.
Not sure how that plays into the discussion above, ... but it is working --- and without the step up transformer ... it was a no go!!
Thanks
Guys!

 

[Rocket Ship]

Great that it's working. The other discussion is really only important if you want to know whether you can run the trailer direct from US 220V (it should). Or, if you're a geek and just want to learn more about AC power. It can be a bit nebulous compared to simple DC power.

What did the dealer in Atlanta do? Just change the Euro 220V plug for a US 110V plug, and expect that was going to work?

 

[dwh]

What did the dealer in Atlanta do? Just change the Euro 220V plug for a US 110V plug, and expect that was going to work?

That's a damned good question, because if they did, they richly deserve a...

 

[Dendy Jarrett]

I believe he wired around the 220 component of the battery charger so that when the trailer was attached to shore power or a generator -- it would work. The battery would charge from the vehicle alternator while going down the road, so the problem became pertinent when you were parked for extended stays or wanted to keep the battery topped off at home. I would disconnect my battery and attach it to a battery tender when parked at home.
But I can't say for sure what the dealer in Atlanta did.
D

 

[Hilldweller]

Dean said that he installed the chargers and they were 120v. I still have mine in the garage and can look later (if I remember).

 

[Dendy Jarrett]

Dean said that he installed the chargers and they were 120v. I still have mine in the garage and can look later (if I remember).

Mine never would charge! (ever!)
I was either on shore power on the Conquest, or running a generator! Had to hook up an external charger to have any type of charge to the battery, however ... the internal fan would run when hooked to shore power.

Anyway, I know this is working for my new trailer, ... and for this trailer, the solution stands and working.
D

 

[Rocket Ship]

So, how exactly does it work? Do you plug into shore power, and then you have shorepower AC supplied to outlets in the trailer, and the battery is charging? Or is everything electric running on DC, so you have DC loads, meanwhile you're charging the battery from shore power?

 

[Hilldweller]

The stock unit is labeled 230V.
Looks like they just replugged it.

Mine would charge the battery though.

 

[lx450landcruiser]

Mine never would charge! (ever!)
I was either on shore power on the Conquest, or running a generator! Had to hook up an external charger to have any type of charge to the battery, however ... the internal fan would run when hooked to shore power.

D

Mine was exactly the same way from the start, However I pulled all the wiring out one night (including the ones what go to the plugs)
I found that the trickle power plug wiring was the issue. Who ever wired it just switched 2 wires after I swaped them everything works great.