axle flip

[punisher1130]

I am making this post to get a second opinion before I spend the money. I hand found a pair of dana 44 axles measureing 65'' with matching gears and both seem to be in perfect shape and most if not all the links for the steering ( from what i can see in the pictures). How ever they both are low pinions and the front axle is a passanger pumpkin, my Dakota is a driver side. So here is what I am thinking, I am thinking I could flip the rear and get reverse cut gears and do the same for the front axle and just swap the spindles.

What i would like to know is does anyone have any reason my idea will not work or is it good thinking?

 

[jeep-N-montero]

Among other issues the knuckles are the wrong angle to simply flip the spindles.

 

[punisher1130]

Didn't think so, but that is why I asked for a second opinion before doing anything, I have never done anything like this so I ask questions.

 

[RedF]

Not possible. The absolute biggest issue is if you "flip" an axle, you have now reversed the direction of travel - that is your front axle will be backing up when you are trying to go forward. After that, it will not lubricate itself properly, so it will cook the pinion bearings. Finally, caster and camber would be totally wacked-out, just scary to drive!

 

[Happy Joe]

"Flipping" an axle left to right or vice versa will result in the tires (or pinion , same same) turning backwards. Besides giving absolutely the wrong camber (ball joint positions), on front axles.
The strength difference on "revers cut"/"high pinion" gears comes from a different angles being cut on the ring and pinions.
The cheapest way to get a reverse cut Dana 44 is to get one from an old Ford, however it is unlikely that it will match your desired track width. Changing out center sections is a lot of work and not a good first project, IMO. (If you do decide to attempt it; it is usually easiest to cut and splice the tubes.)

Sorry to be the bearer of unwanted news...
Enjoy!

 

[jeep-N-montero]

Folks have been doing rear axle flips for ages, but for reasons already mentioned it just is not practical to flip/rotate a front axle when other options exist. If you can find an 80 series Landcruiser in your local salvage yard you could use the front axle as it is passenger drop.

 

[Happy Joe]

I believer that when folks talk about flipping a rear axle most are talking about doing a spring over/under mod...
In very old cars and trucks with 3 piece axle housings it was not unknown to get the center section installed backward/flipped with much confusing and 3 reverse gears (1 forward) ensuing...
The last couple years of the old Grand Wagoneers also had a driver's drop D44 front axle; however, I don't believe that they were reverse cut.
Enjoy!

 

[Scoutn79]

An "axle flip" also known as a "spring flip" or "SOA/SUA conversion (Spring Over Axle/Spring Under Axle) is the process of relocating the springs from under to over the axle (typical off road) or over to under (to lower the vehicle). It is not flipping the axle over left for right, for all of the reasons mentioned.
It can be confusing if you are just getting into the Off road, suspension/steering geometry modifications to a vehicle. Done wrong this sort of mod can cause severe handling issues at the least and death at worst if done wrong. Try hitting your brakes hard towing a trailer down a steep mountain pass and have your poor welds break and axles shift/twist and lock into your fenders...Not good.

Darrell

Darrell

 

[punisher1130]

No worries about giving me bad news, I posted this for second opinions to see if it would work and if there was something I may have over looked, that's why I ask questions before I jump on anything since I am new to off road. I was thinking of flipping them mainly to turn a rear low pinion axle to a high pinion, same fro the front as well as making it the drive side drop I need, the reverse cut gears I knew of do to some stories I've heard of from people doing the spring under/over and thought that info might apply to what I was thinking. The axles needed to fit my existing track print is 78-79 full sized fords or in the least 65'' hub to hub and I did manage to find a few on craigslist for just the front, I was just interesting in the others since they were a matching set and all I would need is springs for the front and rims to match the lug pattern.

 

[Happy Joe]

Be careful running revers cut/high pinion gears in the rear they will suffer between 11% and 30% (probably closer to 30%) reduction in strength due to the gear tooth geometry.
For light rock buggy applications we figured that a reverse cut Dana 60 in the rear was very roughly as strong as a forward cut Dana 44. I wouldn't expect it to stand up to race motors and/or heavy loading; since Dana 44s have traditionally been considered too weak for the rear axle of heavy use pickups; and forward cut Dana 60s, in the rear, are often considered half ton axles (3/4 ton if full floaters). (Note; I'm talking working/comercial trucks not grocery getters).
Enjoy!
(Edit) not all D44 Ford front axles are high pinion; verify before you buy.
(Edit) Ford also used some Dana 50 front axles and, easy to confuse with Dana 44s.

 

[punisher1130]

The truck is going to be a dual purpose rig (daily and expo) so I don't plan on making a monster out of it, only power gain I would get is from a couple bolt on part and a mild program at most plus its a Dakota so that may make it a little safer to have the dana 44 in the rear, if not then I can always go back to my original idea of using a dana 60 for a rear. I have tossed the idea around of a 4bt swap but haven't looked that far ahead yet. I well defiantly keep an eye with those ford axles, no one mentioned that when I asked about doing the axle swap on the truck.

 

[PPCLI_Jim]

you will encounter issue with brake line length . drive line length ,pinion angle ,steering angle and steering connection .brake line and driveline length are relatively straight forward .steering angle can be addressed by getting a steering adj when done at a shop.but steering connection can be varied depending on make and model, ie a drop pitman arm a 'Z BAR' over the top 'OTT ' ... i did a SPUA to SPOA on my Samurai and these questions had to be solved before i started

 

[Scoutn79]

The truck is going to be a dual purpose rig (daily and expo) so I don't plan on making a monster out of it, only power gain I would get is from a couple bolt on part and a mild program at most plus its a Dakota so that may make it a little safer to have the dana 44 in the rear, if not then I can always go back to my original idea of using a dana 60 for a rear. I have tossed the idea around of a 4bt swap but haven't looked that far ahead yet. I well defiantly keep an eye with those ford axles, no one mentioned that when I asked about doing the axle swap on the truck.

Another item that I didn't see mentioned is wheel stud pattern. If they don't match front and rear then you will have to carry two spares without having the benefit of that comes with carrying two spares. Anything can be done if you have the time, money and skills.

Darrell

 

[punisher1130]

I have already planned for that, I have to get new rims either way since the factory lug pattern my truck has is too small to keep so when I get the axles I have to get rims to match and luckily those are pretty cheap to get so I don't lose any sleep on that.

 

[punisher1130]

you will encounter issue with brake line length . drive line length ,pinion angle ,steering angle and steering connection .brake line and driveline length are relatively straight forward .steering angle can be addressed by getting a steering adj when done at a shop.but steering connection can be varied depending on make and model, ie a drop pitman arm a 'Z BAR' over the top 'OTT ' ... i did a SPUA to SPOA on my Samurai and these questions had to be solved before i started

For the brake lines I was thinking of getting something like steel braded lines and cut them to length. For steering my truck has a gear box so all I need is the links made up unless I can find something from another truck to work and live happy. For driveline I have a few ideas to handle it but that's one of those '' ill deal with it when I'm there'' things, from my understanding the angles wont be too bad if I keep with the high pinions. But ill make sure I have everything together and attempt a dry run to check everything before throwing anything under the truck.