back to a 60

[zimm]

maybe.

i had a 60 for years as a DD but i never bothered locking it, or fitting it out.

what do i recalled liking?

the box shape made it easy to locate the corners, and it had great visibility. the payload was square and the two piece fold up seas did a good job of being versatile, if cargo was more important that passenger comfort.
the loss of half a foot of track makes it easier to pick lines.

the down side?

the 2f boat anchor.
no modern safety features.
35's are an issue compared to a 100.

what can it do better?

dont rightly know yet, until i really put one thru its paces like i havent done before. but...

the drivetrain on the 100 is an auto with your easiest gear change being the 3:1 case gears. its adequate without much versatility. the challenging terrain stuff is about gearing, not power plant, so you know when youre adding a SC to get more tq to the wheels youve come upon a decision.

my decision was to pick up a 60 unit with h55f->Split->toybox->4.11's

the 2f is a bit of a dog, but i'm going to let JimC have a go at it before i toss it in the river.

if i dont like it, i'll pull the 100 out of mothballs. after a few weeks, i'm already missing the cushiness of the 100. what ever happened to that guy that lived out of a 40?

the 60 has some lift with 33's, so i think the 4+ubolt flip, and Koni heavy track Raid's will complete the suspension mods. i really hope theres a Raid model i can make work.

 

[toylandcruiser]

The 2f isn't a dog. I live at 5000' and I can tow my 2000 pound pop up around and maintain the speed limit.

 

[zimm]

ive owned plenty of 2f's. JimC'ed to webbered. anything you can do with a 2f, i can do better with a chevy product.

the dry weight is done with this truck. no more add on's. a well tuned, cammed, headdered 2f, may see 150 to the rear wheels. may. and im not convinced the flimsy bottom end can be reliable with that. i'll see what jim has up his sleeve. it wont likely make me happy, but its worth trying. at worst i pull it as a spare for my 40.

 

[toylandcruiser]

Put a Toyota 4.7 in it.

 

[zimm]

i have one. too expensive of a swap for this and an LS will outperform it. the drivetrain is in. as far as i know the manual for a 2uzfe is an r151, and i have a chevy to H bell housing handy too. a LC 4.7 is one quiet motor though.

if i was going to go thru the hassle of something "different" for the sake of different, i'd do a 300cid ford straight 6. its twice the motor a 2f is, you can extract any power you need from it, (just think, SEVEN main bearings!!!!) and its "spiritually" of the straight 6, how the hell much does that weigh, boat anchor genre. if you kept it to 180 to 210 hp, i bet you could squeeze 20mpg out of a 60.

ford to Hxx bell housing is a special order from marks tho... it would be cool, the ozzies pull tremendous power from them, but, screw it.

 

[toylandcruiser]

i have one. too expensive of a swap for this and an LS will outperform it. the drivetrain is in. as far as i know the manual for a 2uzfe is an r151, and i have a chevy to H bell housing handy too. a LC 4.7 is one quiet motor though.

if i was going to go thru the hassle of something "different" for the sake of different, i'd do a 300cid ford straight 6. its twice the motor a 2f is, you can extract any power you need from it, (just think, SEVEN main bearings!!!!) and its "spiritually" of the straight 6, how the hell much does that weigh, boat anchor genre. if you kept it to 180 to 210 hp, i bet you could squeeze 20mpg out of a 60.

ford to Hxx bell housing is a special order from marks tho... it would be cool, the ozzies pull tremendous power from them, but, screw it.

Ok your hatred is apparent for the 2f. Kinda silly and not really called for as they are super reliable engines. But you do what you gotta do.

 

[NCFJ]

Just because he sees the 2F aa a dog does not mean he hates it. The 2F is a dog. I had the 300 6 in an 84 Ford F-250. Put a Holley 4 bbl, header, Mallory Unilite dizzy and coil on it, woke that motor up in huge fashion. Stayed out of the secondary barrels and got far better MPG than in stock configuration. These days I am a fan of the Vortec line of motors.

 

[toylandcruiser]

It's not a dog it's a wonderful engine for what it was designed for. Low revving lugging off road. I've had my lug so low the brake light came on, then I just push the throttle and it comes right back to life. Plus they have a very high nickel content. They are strong. That's why they weight more than a 4.9 and its a smaller displacement

 

[zimm]

woof woof. what was it designed for? using too much fuel to produce too little power in return? it has a heavy flywheel which isnt tq production. it stores energy that you feel while the motor is lugging down low. unfortunately, this enegry input/use cycle repeats itself every single time you step on the fuel, and is typically dissipated in deceleration and put to no functional use, wasting fuel that put the energy into it. a sbc with an rv cam will crank just as low with a lighter flywheel and double the hp by 3500 rpm. a long runner efi 302 windsor does even a better job, but then we're into a ford bell housing again.

weight has nothing to do with longevity. nothing. power breaks parts, and the 2f doesnt produce power and makes such a racket over 3000 most people dont stay there long. hence, it'll just chug along.

also it only has 4 main bearings for 6 cylinders in a line. that creates a lot of unsupported mass and the most common 2f issue in our cruiser club has been bent crank shafts. it cant support power. if it could, it would have been "j2z'd" along time ago. hell the 4ze1 in my trooper can scoff at 300hp without rod or bottom end work. a 2f would grenade on the way up long before.

the 2f is just a motor, and one based on 1930s engine architecture. i'll sell the 60 one day, and i'd like to keep it toyota for the purists who pay more for that.

me? i just like **** that works, and there much to love about landcruisers, but the 2f aint one them.

 

[zimm]

Just because he sees the 2F aa a dog does not mean he hates it. The 2F is a dog. I had the 300 6 in an 84 Ford F-250. Put a Holley 4 bbl, header, Mallory Unilite dizzy and coil on it, woke that motor up in huge fashion. Stayed out of the secondary barrels and got far better MPG than in stock configuration. These days I am a fan of the Vortec line of motors.

the old f150 6ft bed standard cab guys used to be all about maximizing mpg. even factoring the lie factor they were seeing mid 20's. its just a neat motor. anyone that loves a 2f style response, but would like another 40 horses and something as smooth as a 6 is supposed to be, would like that piece of iron. i would. theres just no off the shelf kit.

one of our club just put in a supercharged 4.3 . i told him that was an impressive piece of machining to equal the power and weight of an 8.

it is a cool motor and i cant wait to see how it wheels with instant boost, and if he'll see better MPG than the 8 he took out. if he was creating space for a ranger in front of an h55f it would have made more sense to me as a drive line.

 

[toylandcruiser]

woof woof. what was it designed for? using too much fuel to produce too little power in return? it has a heavy flywheel which isnt tq production. it stores energy that you feel while the motor is lugging down low. unfortunately, this enegry input/use cycle repeats itself every single time you step on the fuel, and is typically dissipated in deceleration and put to no functional use, wasting fuel that put the energy into it. a sbc with an rv cam will crank just as low with a lighter flywheel and double the hp by 3500 rpm. a long runner efi 302 windsor does even a better job, but then we're into a ford bell housing again.

weight has nothing to do with longevity. nothing. power breaks parts, and the 2f doesnt produce power and makes such a racket over 3000 most people dont stay there long. hence, it'll just chug along.

also it only has 4 main bearings for 6 cylinders in a line. that creates a lot of unsupported mass and the most common 2f issue in our cruiser club has been bent crank shafts. it cant support power. if it could, it would have been "j2z'd" along time ago. hell the 4ze1 in my trooper can scoff at 300hp without rod or bottom end work. a 2f would grenade on the way up long before.

the 2f is just a motor, and one based on 1930s engine architecture. i'll sell the 60 one day, and i'd like to keep it toyota for the purists who pay more for that.

me? i just like **** that works, and there much to love about landcruisers, but the 2f aint one them.

To each his own I guess. Weight does have to do with longevity. Hence lots of nickel in the block. doesn't wear out. Saw a guy turbo a 2f with no issues. Never heard of a bent crank on mud. The only time 7 main bearings comes into play is high rpm. Low rpm what the 2f is designed for its a non issue. But I'm no longer going to converse with you as you have your heart set on your decision. Good luck with your adventure.

Huh. Quick search reveled the flywheel is lighter on a 2f than a 350. So much for that idea

 

[redthies]

I love the Ford 300 six. It's a fantastic motor, and as you said Zimm, it is a wolf in sheeps clothing. I haven't driven a 2F since my last FJ40 (20 years ago), but I have had 3B powered 60s since then, and they aren't much faster, if at all. I think before I went to any other gas engine, I'd look into a 13BT and 5 spd swap. I drove that combo with 35s and spring overs in a 60 and the power was more than adequate.

 

[4runnerteq]

Well crap. I was looking for pics. Love a 60.

 

[zimm]

To each his own I guess. Weight does have to do with longevity. Hence lots of nickel in the block. doesn't wear out. Saw a guy turbo a 2f with no issues. Never heard of a bent crank on mud. The only time 7 main bearings comes into play is high rpm. Low rpm what the 2f is designed for its a non issue. But I'm no longer going to converse with you as you have your heart set on your decision. Good luck with your adventure.

Huh. Quick search reveled the flywheel is lighter on a 2f than a 350. So much for that idea

thats why chevy and ford upgraded the low revving straight 6's to 7 main bearings. .. its force that bends metal. while it will happen at high rpms, as there is more force, it will happen at low rpm also, if the pistons are producing force. ever see a low revving diesel 6 with 5 main bearings? no modern engines have the 2f design. its 1930's cost saving technology.

nickle is added to refine the structure and add toughness and wear resistance. pure iron is brittle. it has nothing to do with weight. maybe we should make engines from lead.

 

[zimm]

at any rate....


lets talk 2fe and GM 6.5 td.

some considerations.

a 3 fe is 155 hp, whereas a 2f 135.

with displacement and compression, lets guess the 2fe at 165/230.

while thats not an insignificant increase in number, and great for a 40 (i think i will do this for my 40 to keep it all yota), it doesnt seem like its going to make or break things when the 60 is 1000 pounds portlier than stock and on 35's.

now the GM6.5 looks like 215hp (205?)and 440ftpounds.

we're looking at 80% more area under the curves.

for sake of consideration, its the late model 6.5 gm units with under 50,000 on the ODO. not the original castings, but not optimizer or p400 either. strictly early 90's GMC.

the GM diesel is in many respects only a little more complicated than a 350/5.7 to swap, so its the easiest diesel to buy into, and you could be looking at 18mpg combined with that added power. if i could "shave" some TQ off for MPG, i would, but i dont think it works that way with this motor. id have to go "NA", and i think that would be a step in the wrong direction.

so if if one could do one or the other in their 60, what would one do? yea, i know the 6.5 longevity argument, but thats 12 years down the line with the mileage i'll be putting on, and i'm not towing 10,000 pound trailers. it'll NEVER sit long at the redline. i dont see it as a consideration in the design scope.

all other opinions though, are more than welcome. from "worth more all toyota" to "US parts availability", to whatever you think is important. currently i like the 2fe. i want the 6.5 specs.