Base truck for custom overland build - how big is too big?

[Peter_n_Margaret]

We started with a "specification" that went something like this..
1. Stay "remote" and fully self contained for at least a month.
2. Optimised for 2 people (visitors for dinner will need to compromise).
3. Shower and toilet (combined OK).
4. Bed always made up and ready to use.
5. Ability to live completely inside in the event of bad weather or unbearable fly or mosquito infestations outside.
6. Ability to go pretty much anywhere and at least 1km further than the majority crowd in their 4WDs and camper trailers (unless they are very adventurous). This was an effort to get away from the growing "grey nomad" travellers who are poking into more remote corners.
7. In all other respects, as small as possible.
8. Simple, maintainable vehicle (no computer controls), that can be repaired on the side of the road most times by a "bush mechanic".

I could not buy (or afford to buy) anything that met those criteria, so had to build it myself, which I did 16 years ago (and counting).
It has not disappointed, but you do have to know what you want from this vehicle.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

 

[MTVR]

A lot of our goals are similar, although #7 is obviously up for discussion, given the 62,200-pound GVWR of our chosen vehicle.

As far as #8 goes, we are planning our box specifically to not lock it's use into any one vehicle platform, and we purchased our vehicle cheaply enough (leaving us a substantial financial reserve), that if our vehicle becomes no longer financially viable for us through some sort of mechanical breakdown (extremely unlikely, as it only has about 3,000 miles on it since new), that the situation could be resolved relatively easily, with what police officers commonly refer to as a "New York reload"- you could easily purchase half a dozen (or more) examples of our truck, for the cost of one high-mile rust-bucket U2450L/38.

 

[MTVR]

Speaking of a base vehicle choice: although potentially good value for initial dollar spent, I've generally shied away from the thought of US Military vehicles for feeling that they were purpose-built for one customer - Uncle Sam. And he has *DEEP* pockets if anything ever needs repairs or wears out.

More importantly, though, the guy writing the design spec isn't the buck-private who'll be driving it, so as long as the truck meets specs, not so much push for evolutionary improvement. In the consumer market, the purchaser is often the driver, and if they don't like your product, they'll go somewhere else for their ride. Who's the average soldier going to complain to?

As far as wearing out, our MTVR has about 3,000 miles on it. I hear that the Cat C12 engine has some minor areas of concern that tend to crop up at around a million miles. I'm not too worried about it.

As far as "evolutionary improvement" goes, our MTVR has power steering, power brakes, automatic overdrive transmission, air-conditioning, ABS, traction control, full-time all-wheel-drive, long-travel (16" front, 13" rear) fully-independent coil-sprung suspension, "power seat", and 65 mph "cruise control". It can access it's 58:1 crawl ratio at the push of a button without having to shift a transfer case. And the front/rear independently adjustable tire pressures and five selectable driveline locks are controlled automatically by two rows of buttons on the CTIS control pad, one row for the vehicle payload, and the other for the type of terrain (highway, cross-country, etc.). My tiny wife, who had never even seen the truck before, was able to just hop right in and drive it away, with no problems at all...

 

[Alloy]

Even though this encompasses a lot of trails unsuitable for larger rigs, a large portion are forestry/resource service roads, built for large laden work trucks of 40+ ton capacity. So I think there's plenty to see even if I can't quite fit on the narrowest and twistiest of the trails.

There are allot of errors on the BC Digital Road Atlas.....in fact there are allot of errors on all the mapping system.

I'd suggest driving some of the roads around Chilliwack, Harrison Lake and Jones Lake. The road up to Jones Lake is a good example of what you'll run into in the rest of BC. As you get further back you'll be able to see what sites can be accessed with large vs. small vehicles.

There are all kinds of 40-60yo logging roads still being used by the 4x4 community that were not made for 40T trucks.

The main roads is where you find the most vehicles traveling back and forth and the RV/ 2 wheel drive community camping along the side of the road. The best places to camp are accessed off the main road via narrow roads that are not made for large trucks.

Passing large / heavy vehicle is another issue. The shoulders are soft at the best of times then turn to mush in fall winter spring. I've leaned my lesson not to be nice and pull off to let people pass. They drive off and I'm stuck. It would be great if everyone carried a radio but most don't. In the picture below there was no snow 15km before this. For 10km there was only room for a couple of pick-ups to pass every 1-2 km.

 

[tonydca]

MTVR - I'm not ragging on your choice of rigs. If it is what you want, then good on ya' - I'm honestly looking forward to seeing pictures of the finished product!

If a military truck ends up being the best choice for me, then that's what I'd likely get. I have to admit - the availabilty of CTIS systems already in place on many such trucks is a nice feature. But that's only one of a whole slew of things to consider, and I find it's hard to stay objective. I had my heart set on a Unimog for the longest time, but I'm realizing that while they are excellent machines, they might not be the best for me.

For me, this thread is about laying out my thought processes and letting others (many of whom have way more experience than me) point out the good, the bad and the ugly. And I appreciate all of the comments!

I'm trying to make sure I put the most thought into how I plan to actually use it, rather than obsess over things which in all likelihood will happen rarely, if ever at all.

For instance, some of the Earth Cruiser Iveco/Fuso chassis rigs are sized to fit inside a standard shipping container. That would be a hell of a useful feature if you planned to send your rig around the world on a regular basis. But the flip side is that it severely limits the height of your habitat - some kind of pop-up top is a necessity, which would be a huge drawback for myself, wanting to regularly travel in cold and/or soggy weather. So again - plan for what you expect to do regularly, rather than what you **might** have to do at some time in the future. Cross that bridge when you come to it!

Lastly, I'm trying hard to think about how things will work out at the end of a long day's drive through muddy, slushy dirt roads where everything on the bottom-third of the vehicle is covered in a half-inch (or more) of slimy goo. Not just how things work in your driveway on a sunny day after you've just washed and dried your rig...

 

[MTVR]

Tonydca, no worries. You just gave me an opportunity to address some paradigms...

 

[Lovetheworld]

It is not clear to me how long you plan to be on the road. A month here, a month there. Or evry year half a year on the road? Or basically just a couple of weeks per year?

If you decide to drive to South America at some point, that is for another time. You can always change vehicles.

 

[tonydca]

It is not clear to me how long you plan to be on the road. A month here, a month there. Or evry year half a year on the road? Or basically just a couple of weeks per year?

My sister likes to say: "If you want to make The Fates laugh, just tell them you have a plan..."

Lovetheworld, the short answer to your question is: Hopefully, yes.

My wife and I are at a stage where in a few years the kids'll be grown and our family responsibilites will be far less. At that point, we'd like to seize the opportunity to go on an extended travel junket with no fixed address and no fixed schedule. By that stage, we'd already like to have a suitable vehicle ready to go and familiar to us, rather than be starting the planning/building at that point.

So for now, the (*cough*)... "plan" is to be working on a vehicle and spending whatever week-or-two trips we can with it and working up to the point where down the road we're hopefully able to hoist anchor and duplicate some of the long-range travel adventures that others on this site have been able to do.

Long-range, full-time occupancy for a pair of 50-somethings is the capability we're aiming for.

 

[IdaSHO]

So many people (including myself) seem to initially gravitate towards larger than life vehicles.

In the end... most of us come to our senses and stick to run of the mill full size pickups or cab-overs.

The rest either NEED a huge vehicle (big family) or wind up never finishing the project, and/or selling the thing for a massive loss

proceed with caution

 

[Joe917]

So many people (including myself) seem to initially gravitate towards larger than life vehicles.

In the end... most of us come to our senses and stick to run of the mill full size pickups or cab-overs.

The rest either NEED a huge vehicle (big family) or wind up never finishing the project, and/or selling the thing for a massive loss

proceed with caution

Just like the sailboat world.
FWIW we have met a few self builders on heavy trucks, Germans usually. The common theme is they did not get it right until their third build. Unless you have lived with one of these trucks on the road for an extended time it is very hard to get the design right.

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

The common theme is they did not get it right until their third build. Unless you have lived with one of these trucks on the road for an extended time it is very hard to get the design right.

Never a truer word(s) spoken.
Buy a cheapy ready to go that you thing is close to what you want. There will be plenty to choose from.
Drive it for a couple of years then flog it and try something that you now think is what you want (it will be different).
Only then should you spend your bigger dollars.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

 

[Lovetheworld]

If you have only a week-or-two trips in next years, you will only spent those free days building the truck instead of using it.

Let me tell you about us and friends of us.
We met on overland trip in Asia, when we all didn't have kids. After the trip we all got kids, bought house and sold our 4x4s. Still thinking about big trips though. So we all were looking at vehicles again. We bought a 4x4 van, had it converted really fast. Then 2 years later, rebuild it, as you don't get it right the first time. Made a half year trip with the family before school became obligated.
Mean well our friends bought an old Unimog. Restored it. Thinking about what box to put on. In the mean time they bought a regular RV to have holidays. Now they will sell the unimog, since it is not a double cab, and there is not enough time left till they are stuck in school system.
You may not have that upper time limit, but you can see the difference.

 

[tonydca]

If you have only a week-or-two trips in next years, you will only spent those free days building the truck instead of using it.

Let me tell you about us and friends of us.
We met on overland trip in Asia, when we all didn't have kids. After the trip we all got kids, bought house and sold our 4x4s. Still thinking about big trips though. So we all were looking at vehicles again. We bought a 4x4 van, had it converted really fast. Then 2 years later, rebuild it, as you don't get it right the first time. Made a half year trip with the family before school became obligated.
Mean well our friends bought an old Unimog. Restored it. Thinking about what box to put on. In the mean time they bought a regular RV to have holidays. Now they will sell the unimog, since it is not a double cab, and there is not enough time left till they are stuck in school system.
You may not have that upper time limit, but you can see the difference.

Fair comments from all - but my initial thread intent was to ask about the big vs. bigger, not so much the small camper now vs. big-rig later.

Where I'm coming from - my wife and I have done the tenting and cabin-rentings. We bought a Mitsu L400 and did many camping / off-roading trips with my kids. Sold that and bought a 100-series Land Cruiser. Went camping some more. Towed a little 13' eggshell trailer. Towed a bigger trailer.

At the moment, VerMonsterRV's rig is pretty dang close to the sort of thing I have pictured in my pea-brain. I'm sure most of you have read the build thread already, but I was blown away:

MB 1120 Coming to America! Purchase, Build and Now Travel!

Hi all, well it is now official. We are the new owners of a 1988 MB 1120 AF. Working on setting up the shipping date but hopefully in about 6 weeks we will be able to take delivery in Georgia. Can't wait. Plans are a Total Composites Box with Tern Overland windows, doors and hatches.

www.expeditionportal.com

But there are lots of other great rigs on this site - bigger and smaller with their own pros and cons.

Never having yet owned a big overland rig myself, this thread has so far given me great food for thought. So keep it coming!!

 

[Joe917]

Sorry to send it off the rails a bit. My point about living with the vehicle for a while is that is the only way to know if you have it right, and right for you. That applies to size as much as any other factor. I think we have size about right "for us" with our MB917 two people and a cat full time for 5 years over 2 continents. In the Brazilian Amazon faced with some pretty terrifying wooden bridges and no way around I wished we were lighter. Choosing the wrong street in a village in Peru I wished we were narrower. After weeks of rain in Alaska or severe cold in Canada I was glad we have the large living space we have. You will have to experience it to know.That is why people rarely get it right out of the box. Jon has done an incredible job with his build, but for me there are definite deal breakers in his design. Only living with it will let him know if it is right for him. MTVR thinks he has the best base vehicle, only time on the road will tell him if he got it right. It would be nice to be able to rent these trucks but the potential for expensive damage from abuse or inexperience is just too great. Look at as many as you can, talk to as many experienced owners as you can and plan for three builds!

 

[IdaSHO]

Yep.... hindsight....

Any no two people will have the same desires or needs.
So raw experience helps...

We spent many years in an old ugly camper I retrofitted for the old flatbed diesel.
This was the beginnings of the design phase for us. Every trip we took, we jotted down notes and talked about what would be nice.
Things we absolutely need, things we want, and things we rarely or never need.
I had less than $4000 into this setup, including the truck.

After living in it and traveling with it for a few years, we had a very good idea of what we actually needed.
What was 100% apparent was that nowhere was anyone building anything like it, at least for less than 6 figures $$$$$
So it came down to fitting these like puzzle pieces into a design that flowed well.

One thing that REALLY helped to "future proof" our current setup is to have it modular.
Everyone seems to have wet dreams about earthroamer type vehicle, but its nowhere near modular.

I focused on the camper, and made is modular in that any SRW truck with an 8' flatbed could haul it.
And at about the 8 year mark of building it, we have already done that.... new truck.