Battery chargers. Opinions

DGarman

What could go wrong?
I've been using a Schumacher 15A for a couple years now.
At our place we have 2 trucks with AGMs, 2 trucks with lead-acid, and a Harley with an AGM.
The charger works great on all of them.
Typically, our batteries never drop down to completely dead....... just low enough to not crank. The charger gets them back to an indicated 100% in a couple hours plus or minus.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H961YI/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Edit: I see that the charger I bought for $40 2 years ago is $107 CDN now! I would look at other models now.....
 

jeep-N-montero

Expedition Leader
Only real downside to the Schumacher units are the woefully undersized cables they use, we have the selectable 2amp/10amp/50amp model and had them start smoking trying to use the 50amp jumpstart setting, I plan to upgrade the cables soon and should be good to go. I have even left the charger out in the rain a few times without issue.
 

2025 deleted member

Well-known member
Only real downside to the Schumacher units are the woefully undersized cables they use, we have the selectable 2amp/10amp/50amp model and had them start smoking trying to use the 50amp jumpstart setting, I plan to upgrade the cables soon and should be good to go. I have even left the charger out in the rain a few times without issue.

That's the unit I have. I don't remember paying half of what they sell for now, and I only bought it 10 years ago.
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
[Dave,

Brother, I want to be completely honest here...

A lot of people, from my posts, seem to consider me to be a "know-it-all" kind of guy. It's not true. I actually don't enjoy having to correct others, and I really hate it when I bump heads with one particular guy on a regular basis. The other guy always seems to take it personally.

Nevertheless I feel it's important to keep the facts straight, so I'm about to do it again. Please don't take it personally, I'm NOT picking on you, I'm just setting the record straight.]


The Iota IQ/4 doesn't do an actual elevated voltage EQ. If you look at the spec sheet:

http://www.iotaengineering.com/pplib/iq4spec.pdf

On page two, right hand column, just below the table that lists voltages, it describes what the IQ/4 actually does during Iota's so-called "equalization stage".

The Equalization Stage will cycle the battery through the Bulk and Absorption Stages before returning the battery to the Float Stage.

So what they call equalization isn't what everyone else calls equalization. It's just a seven day timer that kicks on a run-through of the normal bulk/absorb process before dropping back to float.



(I like the Iota stuff a lot, and it irritates me a bit that they slipped up and allowed the marketing urge to lead them into indulging in a bit of misleading BS in this instance. But, well...there it is.)
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
From IOTA:

If the batteries are charged up the equalization charge of 14.8 volts last from 15 minutes to 1/2 hour. This voltage gently agitates the plates and helps prevent sulfates from building up on the plates. It then goes to soak of 14.2 volts for 8 hours then to a float of 13.6 volts for 7 days. During this process very little current is supplied to the batteries to prevent heat build up.
Hope this helps.

Thanks,
Don Bull
Iota Engineering

My post probably was confusing because I am saying IOTA does an equalization and I meant to say one way to do them is elevate the voltage while limiting current (primarily not to overheat the battery) for some period of time.

I've measured my IOTA it's closer to 14.9V when it's doing it (again, just based on the blinking LEDs) so the IQ4 tech sheet numbers are not exact. The DLS series has a trim pot but I've never adjusted mine. My understanding is that IQ4 is just switching through resistance values so I'd also expect all my set points to be 0.1V higher than the spec sheet. It's not a highly complex power supply. I don't even think it's even doing digital control TBH.

So is it exactly a desulfation or not? Not sure. Probably not according to the Rand/Mosley definition of the phenomenon. But there's also an argument that if you float properly a battery won't really sulfate that badly anyway, so maybe the IOTA equalization really isn't doing anything and is purely marketing bull. I dunno, not a chemist. If you can call it anything maybe the equalization is just a step through the 3 standard stages periodically to prevent stratification rather than to desulfate. If their engineering is to be believed the 4th stage they call equalization is like bulk but with a current limit.

Truth be told the only way to really do it would require a before, during and after gravity measurement and actively monitoring temperature, voltage and current so anything other than doing it manually is really just a wild *** guess and kind of impossible to verify by inspection on VRLA anyway.
 
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dwh

Tail-End Charlie
From IOTA:



My post probably was confusing because I am saying IOTA does an equalization and I meant to say one way to do them is elevate the voltage while limiting current (primarily not to overheat the battery) for some period of time.

I've measured my IOTA it's closer to 14.9V when it's doing it (again, just based on the blinking LEDs) so the IQ4 tech sheet numbers are not exact. The DLS series has a trim pot but I've never adjusted mine. My understanding is that IQ4 is just switching through resistance values so I'd also expect all my set points to be 0.1V higher than the spec sheet. It's not a highly complex power supply. I don't even think it's even doing digital control TBH.

So is it exactly a desulfation or not? Not sure. Probably not according to the Rand/Mosley definition of the phenomenon. But there's also an argument that if you float properly a battery won't really sulfate that badly anyway, so maybe the IOTA equalization really isn't doing anything and is purely marketing bull. I dunno, not a chemist. If you can call it anything maybe the equalization is just a step through the 3 standard stages periodically to prevent stratification rather than to desulfate. If their engineering is to be believed the 4th stage they call equalization is like bulk but with a current limit.

Truth be told the only way to really do it would require a before, during and after gravity measurement and actively monitoring temperature, voltage and current so anything other than doing it manually is really just a wild *** guess and kind of impossible to verify by inspection on VRLA anyway.


Um yes. Unfortunately, Mr. Bull is, well, somwhat full of bull.

If you look at the specs on Iota chargers, without the IQ/4, they are single stage 13.6v power supplies. Plugging in the dongle turns them into two stage chargers - bulk/float. The bulk voltage is listed as 14.2v, float is still 13.6v.

Add the IQ/4 and it becomes a three stage - bulk/absorb/float. The bulk voltage is bumped up to 14.8v, and the absorb stage of 14.2v is always on an 8 hour timer, then it drops to float at 13.6v.

So what Mr. Bull is describing, is actually the normal default behavior of the IQ/4.

So as I said, every seven days a timer trips and the IQ/4 simply does a run through of its normal charging profile.



Is it good for the batteries? Once a week push it up to 14.8v and then float it at 14.2v for 8 hours and then float it at 13.6v for another week. No doubt, that's very good for the batteries.

Is that the "timed, controlled overcharge" used to equalize and destratify cells (and which should never be done to VRLA batteries)? Nope, it's just the normal IQ/4 charge profile.

Is it "desulfation"? Nope. Oh sure, keeping the battery fully topped off slows sulfation, and that's good, but not only does the charger not do what is normally considered to be "equalization", it also does not do what is normally considered to be "desulfation".


Still, they are bloody good chargers. One of my all time favorites.


Iota is only guilty of a bit of marketing hype regarding "charging stages". Study the specs on a Progressive Dynamics charger with their "Charge Wizard" and compare that to their marketing hype to see an example of taking the charging stage BS over the top.

The PD is a two stage bulk/float. Then after, I think it's 72 hours or something at float, it drops to a lower float voltage. Pushing the charge wizard button shoves it into bulk stage and starts the process over again.

Their marketing droids call that a 4 stage charger.
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
C'mon dwh you're like the Expo oracle lol.:sombrero:

Nah. Oracles have to vague and non-specific. Like astrology.

I'm usually far too detailed, specific and (deliberately) pedantic to qualify as an oracle.


(Though I do see a karmic event involving a cloud of smoke in your future.)
 

Paddy

Adventurer
I ordered up the Stanley bc25bs to give a try. 60$ online. Seems like a no brainer and well reviewed.
Any comments on the "recond" technology used in this unit?
 

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2025 deleted member

Well-known member
Nah. Oracles have to vague and non-specific. Like astrology.

I'm usually far too detailed, specific and (deliberately) pedantic to qualify as an oracle.


(Though I do see a karmic event involving a cloud of smoke in your future.)

Well weed is becoming legal everywhere.
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
I ordered up the Stanley bc25bs to give a try. 60$ online. Seems like a no brainer and well reviewed.
Any comments on the "recond" technology used in this unit?

Yea. The reconditioning (desulfation) actually does help. It's on a 24 hour timer, and on a battery that's never been desulfated, it takes a LONG time to do any good.

The reviews for the Battery MINDer, which does continuous desulfation, seem to indicate that it takes a few weeks to see improvement, and after a couple of months, no more improvement happens.

With my Stanley 15a, that I bought just to test the desulfation, on an old dead fried battery, I charged the battery and after letting it rest overnight, it was only holding like 10.4v or something.

After like half a dozen 24 hour desulfation cycles with the Stanley, it was resting at like 10.8v. Another half dozen or do 24 hour cycles and it finally topped out at a resting voltage of like 11.4v.

It was a crap battery to start with, and never got any better than that.

Still, it does work. But a single 24 hour cycle probably won't make any noticable difference. Desulfation takes weeks, or months. A few dozen 24 hour cycles (at least) would be required on an older battery.

For a new battery, I would say once a month at least, but once a week would be better.

Also, mine doesn't charge during that cycle. Actually, it tends to run the battery down some. So do a full charge first, then the 24 hour desulfation cycle.
 

Paddy

Adventurer
Wow good to know! So, how many $ does it take to recondition a battery? Sound s like all that electricity would be better spent on a new battery.

I just calculated how much $ it takes to change the water in my hot tub, and it was around 9$ in electricity and 12$ for the water.
 
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dwh

Tail-End Charlie
Wow good to know! So, how many $ does it take to recondition a battery? Sound s like all that electricity would be better spent on a new battery.

Uh..

Well grid power averages around 10 cents per kilowatt hour in the U.S. So if the thing used 100w during desulfation (probably actually less than half that, but I haven't checked), for 24 hours, that would be 2.4 kWh. So figure a quarter dollar a day. $1.75 a week.

So if it actually used 100w when desulfating, and you did it it non-stop for 100 weeks (1 year and 11 months), it'd be $175.

But like I say, it's actually probably half that. Or even less.

Grid power is really pretty damned cheap.
 

Paddy

Adventurer
175$ buys a nice battery though .......:costumed-smiley-007
I'm lucky here in the NW we have lots of rain. Which, at the end of the day, means cheap electricity, which we use to dry our clothes.
 

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