Before GPS - Map and Compass

tremors834

Adventurer
Anyone here carry a map and compass with them in addition to a GPS while Overlanding, Exploring, Hiking or Camping? I started using a GPS back in the late 90's when "selective availability" was still turned on. There used to be a concensus that one should not use a GPS if one can not use a map and compass. If your relying on your GPS and it stops working, at least you have a map and compass to get you where your going.

Any old timers here ever rely on a map and compass for overlanding before GPS was ever availible?

Following copy and pasted from the GPS Wiki explaining SA-
GPS includes a (currently disabled) feature called Selective Availability (SA) that adds intentional, time varying errors of up to 100 meters (328 ft) to the publicly available navigation signals. This was intended to deny an enemy the use of civilian GPS receivers for precision weapon guidance.

Before it was turned off on May 1, 2000, typical SA errors were about 50 m (164 ft) horizontally and about 100 m (328 ft) vertically.[62] Because SA affects every GPS receiver in a given area almost equally, a fixed station with an accurately known position can measure the SA error values and transmit them to the local GPS receivers so they may correct their position fixes. This is called Differential GPS or DGPS. DGPS also corrects for several other important sources of GPS errors, particularly ionospheric delay, so it continues to be widely used even though SA has been turned off. The ineffectiveness of SA in the face of widely available DGPS was a common argument for turning off SA, and this was finally done by order of President Clinton in 2000.
 

cnynrat

Expedition Leader
I pretty much always have a map and compass with me when I'm in the backcountry, and particularly while on foot I often use the map instead of the GPS. Old habits die hard I guess. Very good point about not being totally reliant on the GPS.

While the handheld GPS units are great for pinpointing where you are, I don't find the map capability to be nearly as useful as a USGS topo. While driving we often navigate with a GPS equipped laptop, and with that screen size maps are big enough to be useful.
 

bobcat charlie

Adventurer
Map and Compass or Altimeter

I was an Infantry Officer in Vietnam...pre GPS. Map and compass navigation was deadly serious and I still value the skill.

I always take a USGS Topo map on my back country trips. I have a nice Silva compass and an old Thommen altimeter. In the Sierras and Trinities it's as easy to navigate via the altimeter and the contour lines as it is via map and compass.

That said, I have a Garmin Quest mounted in the truck and I pop it into my pocket when I go hiking...just in case!
 

SunTzuNephew

Explorer
Not only do I carry real compasses, I have at least three of them with me. I've had them break, point off in weird directions, etc. I have three so I can get a 2 out of 3 vote on which way to go.

I also check when I buy compasses in the store, to make certain the one I select is in agreement with the others: I have a couple I purchased (and kept) where the needle was painted on the wrong end. And I don't let them 'demagnitize' the package, at least with the compass in it. I was teaching a basic SAR class where several students went to a local store (Sport Chalet) and purchased their compasses...and most were ruined (no magnetism) after the theft-control tags were deactivated.

And something I do when I first start out hiking is to take out the compasses, verify they agree, and then get a firm idea of which way north is. It's surprising how easy it is to get a little turned-around.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
I still reconnoiter with a map, compass and pencil. I have to admit that I have a nod to technology, my kit includes a little pocket calculator.
 
Having a compass and map is minimum standard to myself. I do alot of bushcraft/survival work and used to be a backpacking guide and in the Army. I am actually more comfortable with a map and compass than GPS. I did have one outing in north carolina that the canopy was so thick i was unable to get a signal for about 3 hours. But again regardless of compass or gps the most important tool is your brain and also knowing how to use the other tools as well before you are put in a situation where you need them.
 

Nadir_E

Adventurer
Map and compass wherever and whenever possible. Aside from not having to worry about batteries or other electrical failures, seeing the entire range depicted by a 1:25,000 or 1:50,000 map gives you a much better sense for the terrain than the little screen on a hand-held GPS and even against some of the larger in-vehicle units.

It's a simple skill to develop and one you can hone (and enjoy!) by finding your local orienteering club. They make different level of difficulty courses on which you race against the clock. It's great training and clean family fun for those looking for things to do with their kids.

-N
 

Joe's Toy

Observer
Recently while watching a Special Forces boot camp I realized I wouldn't be able to navigate with a compass if my life deppended on it. I understand the basics of a compass but I would love to have the kind of confidence you gentleman seem to have in your navigation skills. Are there any good books or training guides you guys would recommend to help me?
 

UK4X4

Expedition Leader
"Are there any good books or training guides you guys would recommend to help me? "

cub scouts ! and there's always joining the military !

Manual map reading distance measuring and compass work.............

try it at night on foot in the woods....you'll soon know if your good or not !

I did both and never go anywhere without a map and compass
 

jcbrandon

Explorer
...Are there any good books or training guides you guys would recommend to help me?


Be Expert with Map and Compass by Bjorn Kjellstrom
http://www.amazon.com/Expert-Map-Compass-Bjorn-Kjellstrom/dp/0470407654/ref=dp_ob_title_bk

and

Land Navigation Handbook: The Sierra Club Guide to Map, Compass and GPS by W. S. Kals
http://www.amazon.com/Land-Navigation-Handbook-Compass-Adventure/dp/1578051223/ref=pd_sim_b_6

You might also try the sport of orienteering. It's an excellent way to build your map and compass skills:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orienteering
 

DaveM

Explorer
I always have paper maps and refer to them primarily when on trips. A compass is always goes on back road and backpacking trips and occasionally on shorter day trips. The GPS usually stays in the car and acts as just another tool similar to the compass, not as a map substitute.

Using a compass to help navigate with a proper map is not really all that hard. The principles are pretty basic really but can be hard to remember when you only do it once in a while.
 

ntsqd

Heretic Car Camper
So how many have actually calibrated their compass?

I had a Silva that was off by 17* Not off in the Magnetic Declination, off in the needle. When I kept coming out in the wrong place in an Orienteering class the instructor & I finally compared my compass to a near dozen of cheap Silva class compasses. My needle pointed 17* West of where all of the other needles were pointed.

My instructor had never heard of that, but Silva replaced it no questions asked.

BTW, I have several GPS. I mostly use them to place waypoints that I'll very likely be able to dead-reckon my way back to, and that I never seem to d/l so that they could be shared. :sombrero:
 

SunTzuNephew

Explorer
Be Expert with Map and Compass by Bjorn Kjellstrom
http://www.amazon.com/Expert-Map-Compass-Bjorn-Kjellstrom/dp/0470407654/ref=dp_ob_title_bk

and

Land Navigation Handbook: The Sierra Club Guide to Map, Compass and GPS by W. S. Kals
http://www.amazon.com/Land-Navigation-Handbook-Compass-Adventure/dp/1578051223/ref=pd_sim_b_6

You might also try the sport of orienteering. It's an excellent way to build your map and compass skills:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orienteering


+1 :iagree:
 

SunTzuNephew

Explorer
So how many have actually calibrated their compass?

I had a Silva that was off by 17* Not off in the Magnetic Declination, off in the needle. When I kept coming out in the wrong place in an Orienteering class the instructor & I finally compared my compass to a near dozen of cheap Silva class compasses. My needle pointed 17* West of where all of the other needles were pointed.

My instructor had never heard of that, but Silva replaced it no questions asked.

BTW, I have several GPS. I mostly use them to place waypoints that I'll very likely be able to dead-reckon my way back to, and that I never seem to d/l so that they could be shared. :sombrero:

Teaching land nav, I've seen all sorts of weird stuff - in addition to the odd problems I've mentioned above, there was this one SAR Dog handler we were trying to get certified as a NASAR SAR Tech... she couldn't get anywhere on the land nav course, she'd literally get lost on the first leg. So, I went over to see what she was doing wrong and the short answer was nothing! Her technique was good, her compass (once I got it away from her) was good, she just had a very strong magnetic field about HER. I asked her to empty her pockets, drop her pack, checked her for large chunks of metal, even asked if she had an underwire bra on, or something implanted (although that wouldn't really be a factor either)....just get a compass within about a foot of her and it would swing....

We finally got her through it using some coordinator's discretion...and told her that she better always carry two or three GPS's.

We had a member on our team that we called the Punisher....she could destroy just about any piece of equipment. If a radio lasted more than a month with her it was SAR-qualified... She had a real knack for picking up bad compasses. She got a very nice sighting puck-style that was about 90 degrees out of whack.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
So how many have actually calibrated their compass?

I had a Silva that was off by 17* Not off in the Magnetic Declination, off in the needle. When I kept coming out in the wrong place in an Orienteering class the instructor & I finally compared my compass to a near dozen of cheap Silva class compasses. My needle pointed 17* West of where all of the other needles were pointed.

My instructor had never heard of that, but Silva replaced it no questions asked.

BTW, I have several GPS. I mostly use them to place waypoints that I'll very likely be able to dead-reckon my way back to, and that I never seem to d/l so that they could be shared. :sombrero:
Compasses can get screwed up for a variety of reasons. People have had to manually compensate and adjust compasses for centuries. SOP for 150 years since the Navy started using huge steel ships and they have to do it with no landmarks, just the heavens, as reference. All good ones will have some way of dialing in a compensation if not a permanent calibration.

Oh, and, learned a lot of it in Boy Scouts and subsequent practice on my end.
 

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