Best 2M break-down antenna

[cruiseroutfit]

I've had this idea in my head of being able to set up a 12V basecamp operated mobile station, for example set up at a base camp in the Swell and be able to hit everything within reasonable reach of the 2M. The predominate uses for would be simplex operations ranging from 0 - 30? miles between operators. Doing so will require a better antenna setup than I'm currently familiar with. On a recent event in the San Rafael Swell area a member of our group setup a portable j-pole antenna and by locating it up on top of a decent rock formation near camp was able to reach out to incoming participants quite a ways out, a perfect application of practicality as our vehicle mounted units and antennas couldn't pick them up.

Tripod mounted? Or something portable like a roll up J-Pole? I like the idea of a tripod mounted that can all be stored in a small tube or soft carry case, of course the simplicity of the roll up can't be beating but I can envision times where mounting it would be troublesome?

What is the longest feasible length of coax you can feasibly use with say a 55W 2M unit before appreciable losses? Will higher quality cables make a big different over say 20+ feet?

I know some will instantly recommend I look into HF setups, I'm still yet to fully embrace anything but 2M setups in my HAM hobby honestly. I picked up a couple of HF rigs doing some horse trading recently but as I'm already setup in both my rigs with 2M's and 90% of the friends I travel with are 2M only, it just seems to make sense to start with 2M. Additionally I have a couple of older but quality 2M radios I got in the trades that I could easily dedicate to sitting 360 days out of the year and not feel like I've wasted much money.

Some links I've been reading through:
http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/5003/twig.htm
http://www.kb3kai.com/j-pole.php (sells pre-built roll up J-Poles)
http://www.w9idx.com/node/28
http://www.dxzone.com/catalog/Antennas/Portable/

I'd ideally like to build a 'kit' within a briefcase size (1650) or slightly larger Pelican case. Think 'bug out' yet easily used for normal outings too. A rolled up power supply cable within to reach a battery say 30 ft away (which requires some forethought too). Any thoughts on this?

Our local ham shack had an ICOM portable setup in a backpack, with a battery pack and all. Very slick. I can't remember if it was something ICOM was making or if it was something he was assembling. The catch is the expense, I want to say it was in the $1000 area and the durability as I want something in a waterproof case that can be tossed in the bed of a truck until deployed. My budget is more in the $200 range, and I already have the 2M. So I need a roll of appropriately sized power supply wire (would be slick to have a small fuse holder mounted in the case), I'll need the coax and Pelican case and then of course the main concern for me, a high quality portable antenna.

Any suggestions?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Found some more good ideas:

From here: http://home.comcast.net/~buck0/combox.htm

My favorite ideas thusfar, I think this would be perfect integrated in a Pelican:

Here is the ICOM I was referring to, must be a kit available:

 

[gary in ohio]

I've had this idea in my head of being able to set up a 12V basecamp operated mobile station, for example set up at a base camp in the Swell and be able to hit everything within reasonable reach of the 2M. The predominate uses for would be simplex operations ranging from 0 - 30? miles between operators.

I routinely work 30 miles mobile to mobile, but If you can get an antenna higher so much the better. To get an antenna up higher you need a mast, There are a couple of easy options, One ebay and many hamfest have military filberglass mast available for $20-30. these are 3ft long sections and they can be stacked. You can single man raise 5 or 6 sections, and can tilt up about 30ft of that, any higher and you need 4 or 5 people. Hang a jpole from the top of that. You also look at the fiberglass collapable mast that are out. MFJ has one, Kanga has one. You can also use one of the telescopic croppy poles. All of these will get your signal up another 20+ feet.

For a mast mount, a simple drive on mount, use the vehicle weight to keep th base from moiving. The some military mast have these paddles that will steady as mast, you can also guy them with just about anything. Here a site with some pix. Thery are a bit expensive and you can find cheaper else where. http://www.tmastco.com/

What is the longest feasible length of coax you can feasibly use with say a 55W 2M unit before appreciable losses? Will higher quality cables make a big different over say 20+ feet?

For portable mast usage weight will be a factor, especially with the telescopic mast. for 50ft or less run, RG8x will work fine, a little bit of loss but not enough to worry about, Its also flexible enough to roll up pretty small. The best cable would be lmr400/rg213/9913 but its big heavy and doesnt pack well.

I'd ideally like to build a 'kit' within a briefcase size (1650) or slightly larger Pelican case. Think 'bug out' yet easily used for normal outings too. A rolled up power supply cable within to reach a battery say 30 ft away (which requires some forethought too). Any thoughts on this?

These are very common with "emcomm" emergency communication groups.
here are some nice looking packages. http://www.mocoares.com/images/pictures/box_portable_radios/index.htm If you search for ARES go kits will find others. I think you need to look at how your going to power, with 55watts out, your going to need a BIG cable to run 30ft and not have any voltage loss. If you cant get the battery closer then look at some of the stereo monster cables avaialble go with a 0 or 00 size cable. Its not going to be a small package but a small 8guage wire will not work properly.

Our local ham shack had an ICOM portable setup in a backpack, with a battery pack and all. Very slick. I can't remember if it was something ICOM was making or if it was something he was assembling.
Any suggestions?

Yaseu sells the low powered 817 for backpack use, Icom 703 or 706 will fit the little icom backpack. There is a HF backpack group on yahoo called hfpack http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/hfpack/ check out there group for photos

 

[fetus]

If you're looking for distance, also look at a 2m Yagi Antenna, such as those sold at http://www.arrowantennas.com/. Look at the Arrow II antennas, the 146-4 model is backpack portable.

 

[mk4]

I think you can get started with a 2M Arrow Antenna j-pole and a mast. You can salvage the mast from somewhere. This should run you $50 and should pack down pretty small.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...You also look at the fiberglass collapable mast that are out. MFJ has one, Kanga has one. You can also use one of the telescopic croppy poles. All of these will get your signal up another 20+ feet.

First off, thanks for the detailed reply :costumed-smiley-007

I looked into both of your suggestions, looks like you nailed two of the favorites for this type of setup. The Kanga DK9SQ looks to be sold out, I'm going to drop an email and see what I can come up with. The MFJ setup looks slick too. Both are ~4' long stowed and weigh just a few pounds. Very doable for a portable setup I think. I think the Kanga DK9SQ retails for $100 and the MFJ-1910 is $80, pretty much a wash. There was a note on one review site that the DK9SQ has graphite in the mast extensions and that can cause some interference in some setups.

Kanga: http://www.kangaus.com/dk9sq.htm
MFJ: http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-1910

...For a mast mount, a simple drive on mount, use the vehicle weight to keep th base from moiving. The some military mast have these paddles that will steady as mast, you can also guy them with just about anything. Here a site with some pix. Thery are a bit expensive and you can find cheaper else where. http://www.tmastco.com/

I need to get to my local mil surplus place quick as I think they had a stack of those in the back. I can't remember if they were aluminum or fiberglass but I remember them having an interlocking setup and some had a tripod base setup. Oh, and it looks like The Mast Company has their own 32' fiberglass telescoping portable unit too
http://www.tmastco.com/main/page_products_telescopic_poles.html

...For portable mast usage weight will be a factor, especially with the telescopic mast. for 50ft or less run, RG8x will work fine, a little bit of loss but not enough to worry about, Its also flexible enough to roll up pretty small. The best cable would be lmr400/rg213/9913 but its big heavy and doesnt pack well.

I think 50ft is well within the setup I'm looking to build from unit to antenna. Using say a 32 ft mast you will have roughly 15ft from the antenna mast to your radio unit, I think that is reasonable.

...These are very common with "emcomm" emergency communication groups.
here are some nice looking packages. http://www.mocoares.com/images/pictures/box_portable_radios/index.htm

Great link, lots of neat setups there.

...I think you need to look at how your going to power, with 55watts out, your going to need a BIG cable to run 30ft and not have any voltage loss.

I think I'm going to reconsider my needs in this regards... if I shuffle my plans to 10ft from power source I think that 8 guage would suffice, less than 1 VDC loss over the length and assuming power is coming from a fully charged auto battery I think it would be OK?


Thanks again for the suggestions guys!

 

[gary in ohio]

I think I'm going to reconsider my needs in this regards... if I shuffle my plans to 10ft from power source I think that 8 guage would suffice, less than 1 VDC loss over the length and assuming power is coming from a fully charged auto battery I think it would be OK?


Thanks again for the suggestions guys!

At 10ft 8 guage would be fine if the car was running and charging but might be a little small when just running on the batteries. I would look at 6 gauge at least for a battery operated system. I know my Icom 207 and yaesu 1500 are pretty picky on voltage when operating on battery. There are also a couple voltage boosters that might help as well..

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Update: I scored a grundle of HAM antenna's, like 15 or so different setups, wire whips, fiberglass whips, a directional yagi and a handful of the aluminum antenna mast poles (no base though).

Question for the pro's. Aluminum versus fiberglass? Assuming stowed weight is not an issue, is there a perceived performance different in the two? Will I need to address special grounding issues with the aluminum?

Most of the mast sections I've found on the internet are 4' sections, mine are closer to 6' each. I'm going to swing by the local mil surplus joint and see what I can find as far as a base and possibly the guy rings. If I can't find those locally it might just make sense to sell these ones to someone with a similar setup and invest instead in a complete kit such as this one:

Available here: http://www.w3ars.com/pole_info.htm

 

[gary in ohio]

Update: I scored a grundle of HAM antenna's, like 15 or so different setups, wire whips, fiberglass whips, a directional yagi and a handful of the aluminum antenna mast poles (no base though).

Question for the pro's. Aluminum versus fiberglass? Assuming stowed weight is not an issue, is there a perceived performance different in the two? Will I need to address special grounding issues with the aluminum?

glass vs metal, really depends on what you plan on putting up for an antenna. If you want some HF yagi then aluminum is a must. For most wire antennas and VHF/UHF verticals or small yagi the fiber glass are fine. Another are is height, You can tilt up 30ft fiberglass mast, Any more and they will snap. You can tilt up 48ft of aluminum. In either case you need a couple of people to it up. A 20ft mast can be single man installed, after that the wiggles set in and it takes more people.

My ARES group has over 20 of the fiberglass kits. We use them for wire antennas, dual band verticals and small yagis. I have build up several mounts, a tilt-up base mount, drive on car mount, t-bar dipole hanger and other mounts.

 

[SunTzuNephew]

Those are the poles (and spreaders) for military camo netting.

The poles will work as a mast....I had a setup that has been used many times - both as antenna and flag mast. You will need guy lines, stakes, and a way of attaching the antenna.

On mine I had an L-shaped bracket made of metal that clamped to the top with a U-bolt. An NMO mount attached to the leg of the L, and whatever antenna I wanted attached to it. Coax extensions as needed ran down the mast. On the U-bolt holding the L-shaped bracket was a small pulley that served the flag halyard.

For guys, we had a triangular piece of metal with a central hole the size of the tapered end of the masts, with three small holes for the guys. These can sometimes be found as antenna parts, or are easy enough to fab up, we also made a functional replacement out of paracord, and another time with tie-wraps. These parts are actually part of the military antenna sets, and are often the first thing lost since they're small.

The mast also worked well in holding various long-wire HF antennas aloft. Dipoles, folded dipoles, G5RV's and the like can actually be used as part of the guy system.

OBTW, aside from their intended use, I haven't found any particular use for the spreader bars - they are supposed to go on the top of pole sections and spread out the camo net. They are flimsy and designed to be that way. Camo net is a dandy sunshade, however and using the masts and netting in the desert is handy.

 

[gary in ohio]

For guys, we had a triangular piece of metal with a central hole the size of the tapered end of the masts, with three small holes for the guys.

I haven't found any particular use for the spreader bars - they are supposed to go on the top of pole sections and spread out the camo net.

You can find guy rings on ebay anywhere from power coated metal to composit materials in various prices.

The important part of the spreader is the hub ring. its a nice way to add a rotator to the mast and keep guys fixed. You can also use the spreaders, Take the hubs off the round end drill a hole to fit over the mast/hubs. A couple of those held together make a nice standoff for a wire antenna.
Very hand to use if you have an aluminum mast and want to get the antenna away from the mast.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

More great advice... you guys rock. I still need to get over to our mil surplus joint and I'm waiting on a reply from W3ARS, he might be at a hamfast and I'm not in a particular hurry

Thanks again guys, I'll update as I get closer to a finished setup.

 

[bsautry]

Have you taken a visit to your local used photo equipment store? There is a lot of equimpment that might be perfect for what you are looking to do. The height might not be the best, but for $25 to $100 you can get a light stand or backdrop rig that telescopes to 20-25'. With the light stand you can add a boom that will get you another 10'. Both are designed to hadle 50 to 100lbs at full extension and they come with tripod bases. They will weigh less then 10lbs per stand, as I have packed them all over the world.

Just a thought...