Best system for mapping?

[Menard_LaPue]

Three things are important to me with mapping hardware and software: great satellite imagery, great topo maps, and the ability to record observations on this data set (making maps, mostly of rock boundaries). Navigation is interesting, but not that important.

I currently use Google Earth for map making, though the tools are primitive - tools for way points and paths only. I might typically map rocks in a 5 or 10 mile area each day. An attached gps unit via GooP software sounds good (the tracking software to keep you located on Google Earth). However, I am now tethered to my 2004 Dell computer running Windows XP, which always takes up to much room on the front seat, has to many wires and poor screen resolution in the sunlight, plus the whole mouse situation. Caching satellite imagery in Google Earth before take-off is somewhat a hassle, but I can cover nearly half of Nevada in great detail if I just spend the time doing this.

I never have internet or phone connection in the daytime, often for several days. What I like about Google Earth are the large data sets I can access - land boundaries, water wells, oil and gas wells, mining claims, geologic maps, seismic surveys, topographic maps, custom maps, satellite images, and the like. Clicking these on and off is easy and convenient.

There must be a better way than GE on an old laptop. I love the Android tablets, and especially their value for screen size and resolution. However, I don't see any Android users actually making maps, other than their own track lines. I have heard that Google Earth on Android does not support layers for making maps, or have any tools for laying out boundaries. Is this correct? Large screens are important to me, as is high resolution. Everything does get dirty and dusty, it is just the environment.

Anyone have some suggestions? I am hoping to not buy-to-try. My conversations in stores with salesmen have been useless. It seems there are quite a few users here with a lot of experience.

 

[scott7022]

Looking forward to answers as well!! Great question and echoed my own!

 

[captadv]

If you want to be a 'real' map builder checkout mapbox studio.

https://www.mapbox.com/mapbox-studio/

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[Menard_LaPue]

Mapbox-studio looks powerful, especially with the 20 tools for editing maps. If only GE could imitate some of those tools... I already have Arc-GIS though, which we leave in the office. Most importantly, I am looking for less complexity, not more, since I am driving around in a car without phone or internet connection in temps ranging from -40 to 120F. My dream would be a cheap tablet solution or maybe cheap computer, where I could scribble map boundaries and specialized symbols as I drive, quad and walk. Cheap is good because they all break the same. That said, collecting data on paper still works better than digital collection as far as I know, and I can hardly believe that is actually true in 2017.

Other suggestions? How are the rest of you making maps?

 

[NevadaLover]

I use my note 4 with GE and backcountry navigator, the short comings of both are usually offset by each other, I save alot of GE images to enhance when I get to the general vicinity and BCN to augment the rest of the way!! the biggest downfall to GE is the lack of cell coverage in nevada, but by saving images to my card it usually gets me where I have decided to visit!

My next purchase will be a samsung tab with a bigger screen because the old eyeballs don't work so well up close, there are a couple of threads that have good info on how to use a tab with BCN or one of the other apps available!

 

[Dock Rocker]

I have been using LeadNav for the last year or so. It works great with IOS. I purchased their cheapest map pack. It allows me to save a really tight zoom of our planned routs. It allows you to import tracks and routs. The thing I like most about it is it will allow you to come over the routs you have saved and put in turn by turn directions. This is great because you don't have to stare at the map all the time looking for the next turn. When you get close to the turn it tells you left in 900 feet or hard left.

It will do quite a few more things than that but that's all I have been able to work out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Menard_LaPue]

<<I use my note 4 with GE and backcountry navigator>>

I am glad to hear the Samsung Galaxy Note 4 works in Nevada, because I know there are a million roads that don't show up on anyone's software. However, I would go crazy making maps on the tiny screen of a smartphone. Tell me, with your GE software, do you have the ability to mark paths and waypoints, and then save them? And can you download these .kmz files later?

 

[Menard_LaPue]

<<I have been using LeadNav for the last year or so. It works great with IOS.>>

Since you downloaded map packs, I assume you have imagery capability when you have not phone or internet connection.. Is this correct? Do you have good 3D satellite imagery and topographic maps? Can you mark lines and places on a map and save this data? That essentially what map making is, with fancy colors and symbols.

 

[Menard_LaPue]

<<Looking forward to answers as well!!>>

Scott7022, I see you are in Russia. I spent 10 years there, 6 full time in central Siberia working in the field. GPS was illegal when I lived there and they were putting people in jail. Because of the "State Secrets" act were weren't able to know true north or the exact location of our wells, which made fun when trying to tie down-hole directional surveys between westerners and Russians. Everyone knew which star was the north one though, so there was a work-around. Driving to the field in winter was 500 km of winter road. I was often insecure with no navigation system, since every turnoff looked the same. Does all this sound familiar?

 

[NevadaLover]

<<I use my note 4 with GE and backcountry navigator>>

I am glad to hear the Samsung Galaxy Note 4 works in Nevada, because I know there are a million roads that don't show up on anyone's software. However, I would go crazy making maps on the tiny screen of a smartphone. Tell me, with your GE software, do you have the ability to mark paths and waypoints, and then save them? And can you download these .kmz files later?

It does suck using such a small screen but I make it work, and no I don't have the ability to mark paths and waypoints on the software, I use the s-pen to screen write the paths I want onto screen shots I take from GE, then I use BCN to clarify the topography so I know what to expect when I get to the area, i.e. how high the road climbs, the steepness of the terrain etc.. it sounds like a big P.I.A. but it keeps me off the streets and out of the bars until the weekend when I can take a trip!! I love GE because it shows what is hidden around the corner or in the next canyon over, I have found alot of interesting places in the mountains of Nevada just by using GE before I go out exploring!!

 

[theksmith]

when you say "making maps" - what exactly do you want to do while in the field? are you just recording waypoints and tracks with notes or ...?

i use an Android tablet with built-in GPS and the AlpineQuest app. the USGS topo maps provided by the Caltopo map source will give you terrain, mines, wells, old cabins, etc. and you can get cacheable satellite data from the Bing or HERE map sources. of course you can get street maps as well from several sources, but it does not do turn-by-turn navigation. it also has a "land management" layer provided by Caltopo that you can overlay at any opacity and see who is responsible for that area (BLM, NFS, state, etc.). you can use any map source as an overlay and combine several layers even, such as MVUM trails, terrain shading, etc.

you do have to pre-cache any map source you want to use in the field, but it's much easier than with Google Earth. while you have internet, you simply pick your map source, draw a rectangle over the area you want to cache, specify what zoom range to download, and let it rip! the app is fairly generous as to how many map tiles you can download at once (compared to similar apps), and if your area exceeds that amount you can simply run it again and it will pick up where it left off (only downloading the missing tiles).

for map making, you can create waypoints with any icon, name, and description you like and even take a photo with the device and attach it to that waypoint. tracks and routes can be created by drawing directly on the screen, or you can record a track real-time form the GPS input. it can import and export GPX and KML/KMZ, as well as some other formats i think. it's not GIS program though, waypoints and routes/tracks are the extent of the notations you can make. there's no polygon or area type tools, etc.

all of the tablet/phone apps offer similar feature sets (Backcountry Navigator, Orux, Gaia, Locus), but i've found that AlpineQuest has the right mix of intuitive interface and advanced features for myself to prefer it over the others.

also, worth noting, if you're tech-savvy, you can use the open source Java software MOBAC to pre-make map files of very large areas on your desktop computer and avoid having to do the pre-cache routine within the AlpineQuest app. MOBAC can make files for several of the popular Android apps actually.

i'd recommend a 10" tablet since you want to interact with the maps a lot. i use an 8" currently - it fits in the Jeep well and is plenty for basic use. you also want to make sure you get one with a microSD slot and that is modern enough to support at least a 128GB card (which are reasonably priced currently, 256GB are the largest available at this time but pricey).

a challenge with Android tablets can be finding one that has a true GPS chip built in (one that doesn't require network/wifi assistance). nearly any tablet that has cellular data capabilities will have this feature (which can be used even outside of cellular range. it's just that the cellular radio chipsets almost always include the GPS features). however, for WiFi only tablets, avoid the "lite" version of any Samsung tablets as those definitely do not include a fully functional GPS. personally i would only buy from somewhere you can test it and return it if you go with a WiFi only one (FYI, Best Buy will price match Amazon). you want to ensure that an offline map app can achieve a GPS lock even with WiFi and cellular data turned off. the free app GPS Status & Toolbox can be used to test this (put it in airplane mode then turn on only the location/gps feature then open the app and see if you can get a sattelite lock in decent time).

i've successfully used several different tablets mounted in vehicles over the past few years (Motorola, Sony, LG). they've all had Verizon service though - i'm willing to pay the additional $10/month on my plan to have data around town for things like streaming radio, real-time traffic in Google maps, etc. all of them have worked well in terms of getting a quick GPS lock with simply being mounted on the dash. heavy forest cover or deep canyons will of course make you lose signal intermittently with nearly any device. note that if you get a tablet with Bluetooth, you could use a separate external GPS device which might offer a better antenna/chipset - i've never had the need for this extra complexity.

 

[Menard_LaPue]

I appreciate everyone's comments, but it appears I was not clear. I have included an example of a map which is typically made in the field.

<<when you say "making maps" - what exactly do you want to do while in the field? are you just recording waypoints and tracks with notes or ...?>>

The attached diagram is an example of a geologic map. You can see the section boundaries (1 square mile surveys), a dirt road, and the topographic lines underneath the colored areas. This map covers about 6 square miles. The colored units represent different rock types at the surface, as well as information regarding their orientation into the subsurface. The "T" marks show orientation of the strike and dip of the rocks, so that their orientation into the ground is readily apparent on the map. Rocks on the east half are folded into an anticline (upside down bowl), and a few faults are identified. Note that roads and trails occupy less than 1 percent of the earth's surface, so only offer very limited information. A good map requires 100% of the surface information. In this regard, track lines are useless and just clutter the data being collected. This particular map was made by Tom Dibblee Jr., who mapped about 50% of California during his career.

Sure, I drive every road. But roads are obvious; I just look out the window...## What is not obvious are the rock types and their orientation, and this data collection can not be done in an office.

All of this wonderful satellite imagery, topographic maps, infrared maps, and blended maps which are available are WONDERFUL as base maps to get started. I am hoping for some program to be able to add a map layer over these, and then record different types of data, as well as add specialized symbols. However it seems that paper and colored pencils still works best. Later these maps are scanned at the office into digital files. Certainly 2017 offers a better option?

Anyone else have any ideas or experience making maps on computer software while in the field? These tablets are such a good base to get started, there must be something simple. We really are just talking about adding lines and symbols - but nothing to do with roads or tracklines.

 

[Menard_LaPue]

theksmith,

Thank you for the tip on AlpineQuest, I am reviewing it now. I have BackCountry Navigator, and find it super confusing. The manual is 188 pages. Each program has the same processes so I am not confused by what I am supposed to do, just finding it "not intuitive"/disorganized in BCN. In fact my finger is actually getting sore from pushing so many buttons so often. I certainly prefer to have layers to turn on and off, with opacity, and easily accessible, as opposed to searching for individual layers, finding 4 GB data headwalls, and the like. I typically use a lot of layers, considering the roads, hot springs, ownership, geologic units, water wells, oil wells, section-township-range boundaries, 100k map boundaries, etc.

 

[theksmith]

theksmith,

Thank you for the tip on AlpineQuest, I am reviewing it now. I have BackCountry Navigator, and find it super confusing. The manual is 188 pages. Each program has the same processes so I am not confused by what I am supposed to do, just finding it "not intuitive"/disorganized in BCN. In fact my finger is actually getting sore from pushing so many buttons so often. I certainly prefer to have layers to turn on and off, with opacity, and easily accessible, as opposed to searching for individual layers, finding 4 GB data headwalls, and the like. I typically use a lot of layers, considering the roads, hot springs, ownership, geologic units, water wells, oil wells, section-township-range boundaries, 100k map boundaries, etc.

hopefully you'll like AQ better than BCN even if it doesn't do what you need as far as creating new maps. be sure in the map sources area ("Available Maps") to tap on "Add New Maps" and explore the Caltopo map source (as well as perhaps the USGS and others).

i kinda doubt there's an iOS or Android app to do what you want for making maps, it's too niche of a market... unless Autodesk makes something, they seem to be embracing the mobile world. however, if you have some Windows software that works well already, then you might want to pick up a MS Surface Pro tablet. they are great machines - a tablet form factor with real processor and ram options (and ability to run full-fledged desktop software). maybe some GIS software maker has even gotten modern enough to take advantage of the stylus on them?

UPDATE/afterthought: one thing that just occurred to me, perhaps a slightly more modern version of the colored pencil: on iOS and Android devices you can take a screenshot at any time... so while using a mapping/GPS app, just screenshot the current view a then use an app like Photoshop Touch or Illustrator Draw to markup your stuff on top of that. i'm sure there are even better apps than those for notating on top of screenshots (my LG G Pad x8.3 has a built in app for this and comes with a stylus). anyway, you still have to assemble your map manually in some other software, but you could stay all-digital instead of having to scan back in a paper drawing. there are several Android tabs with stylus devices (though not the most common thing), and then there's the iPad Pro and MS Surface as well which have digital pens/pencils.

let us know what you end up with!

 

[jackmakrl]

You mention being a ArcGIS shop in an earlier comment, have you looked into ArcGIS Collector? I haven't used it myself but it seems to be designed to do exactly what you want.