'round n' back again
Explorer
ever see those rusting hulks in the bottom of the canyon?......
Black Bear Pass in a Ram 3500 CC SRW w/ 37's, is it Possible?
- Thread starter ttengineer
- Start date
ttengineer
Adventurer
Keith Starr
Inmate #2558516
You'll be fine. H1's are 86.5" wide and they do it. You're 79.4"? No worries. This switch back near the bottom will probably require the most effort, but most of them look a lot worse than they actually are. Use a spotter if you're concerned.
LandCruiserPhil
Expedition Leader
Do you not have youtube
Again if you are comfortable with your truck you will be fine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evehx-9KC1c
I believe my old truck is the same as yours with the exception of my 35's. Having done BBP in several other vehicles I would take down no problem and mine was a 6SP.
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ttengineer
Adventurer
Nice. Thanks for the replies y'all. Seeing those H1s is a big relief.
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cruiserdude80
Observer
I do not recommend at all. A few years ago we were out there for a Jeep Jamboree. An older couple had decided to take their Ford SD down Black Bear and slid their truck partially off the trail on one of the switchbacks. This resulted in an expensive recovery bill from one of the local tow companies that was willing to go up and get it.
One thing you probably haven't considered is the effect of a problem on your part would have on the safety of others traversing the trail. That Ford SD was in such a position that it endangered others trying to get around it. In fact, the people telling me the story said they considering nudging the Ford SD on over due to the danger it being stuck half on half off the trail presented.
Black Bear is not that tough, but the margin for error is small, and if you have a problem, then your problem becomes somebody else's problem. I have seen full size pickups on it, but I think a full size long wheel base pickup on Black Bear is pushing the envelope.
My recommendation, take one of the tours or see if one of the rental companies allows their Jeeps on Black Bear.
My 2 cents worth.
One thing you probably haven't considered is the effect of a problem on your part would have on the safety of others traversing the trail. That Ford SD was in such a position that it endangered others trying to get around it. In fact, the people telling me the story said they considering nudging the Ford SD on over due to the danger it being stuck half on half off the trail presented.
Black Bear is not that tough, but the margin for error is small, and if you have a problem, then your problem becomes somebody else's problem. I have seen full size pickups on it, but I think a full size long wheel base pickup on Black Bear is pushing the envelope.
My recommendation, take one of the tours or see if one of the rental companies allows their Jeeps on Black Bear.
My 2 cents worth.
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mikekey
Deplorable
You can do it.
A Power Wagon doing it:
Friend's F250 went down it.
And here's an older Ram 2500 diesel doing it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evehx-9KC1c
There are a few areas where if you screw up, well you can't screw up. And don't freak or panic. It's always some novice that freaks, that gets into an accident. But I will say this, don't go alone. Go in a group.
Like I said, there are tight switch backs, lots of them. And a few places where you CANNOT screw up or get your tire over the edge. I'd be curious to know about your backspacing on that truck with the 37's. One of the reasons I've stuck with 35's on the PW on Stock wheels is the fact that my tires are still under the truck, not outside the truck. Which is a greater advantage offroad in tight places.
A Power Wagon doing it:
Friend's F250 went down it.
And here's an older Ram 2500 diesel doing it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evehx-9KC1c
There are a few areas where if you screw up, well you can't screw up. And don't freak or panic. It's always some novice that freaks, that gets into an accident. But I will say this, don't go alone. Go in a group.
Like I said, there are tight switch backs, lots of them. And a few places where you CANNOT screw up or get your tire over the edge. I'd be curious to know about your backspacing on that truck with the 37's. One of the reasons I've stuck with 35's on the PW on Stock wheels is the fact that my tires are still under the truck, not outside the truck. Which is a greater advantage offroad in tight places.
mikekey
Deplorable
I don't think novices or people who lack experince should be going down it. And they certainly shouldn't be going down it alone. I know that a lot of people go down at a time. But you shouldn't be relying on strangers. I wouldn't go without a group of people. And I wouldn't go with someone who doesn't know their own limits or the limits of their own vehicle.
There was a family of four from Florida back in 2014 that rolled half way down. And panic was the cuase. They got scared, tried backing up (HUGE NO NO) and down the hill they went.
They had no business on that trail to start. Once you're on it, you are committed to completion.
rgregg08
New member
There's a ton of other fun trails out there and probably have less people on them too. Black Bear is the only one we didn't finish of everything we tackled that week. We we came up from the Ouray side that day and called calf rope at the top. Looked like amateur hour and we didn't want to get stuck behind any of them or have them fall on us. Tour operators drive full sizes up there so it's really a driver skill thing as everyone has mentioned. Can't wait to go back this fall.
Atl-atl
Adventurer
Ive done blackbear in both directions, occasionally they open it for reverse traffic for things like off-road events etc. I would much rather go up than down in a full size. Do I think its doable in a fullsize, sure. Would I want to? Not after having done it already, honestly the view is rad but its a "once is enough" type trail and the views going up to the power station from the bottom or coming in from the top and looking down on Telluride are all you need without actually doing the trail. Both times I did it were in a stock wheelbase TJ, no backing up necessary hahaha. Just be overly cautious and do it when its dry. As someone that wheels a fullsize pretty hard I understand where you are coming from but I dont think Id take my truck over blackbear.
If you are running 37s on stock offset wheels(like me) with stock control arms(like me) your turning radius is probably horrendous(like mine) and if thats the case you are going to be doing 6, 7 or 8 point turns not 4 point turns like people are saying in this thread. It sounds silly but when you are faced with the possibility of falling thousands, literally thousands of feet, in your truck you will hopefully be even more cautious than necessary.
All of this being said, WHY on earth do you want to do Blackbear Pass? That part of Colorado has SO MANY amazing trails and places to visit/see. Alta lakes at 11,600' high, ghost towns everywhere, trails of varying difficulty etc. Unless its a bucket list thing (to say you've done blackbear) there are so many trails that are much more fun/interesting than Blackbear. Honestly if I had to get from Ouray to Telluride Id rather do Imogene 10/10 times when given the decision between blackbear or imogene. I get the feeling your mind is already made up. Be safe have fun and bring a nice camera.
:victory:
If you are running 37s on stock offset wheels(like me) with stock control arms(like me) your turning radius is probably horrendous(like mine) and if thats the case you are going to be doing 6, 7 or 8 point turns not 4 point turns like people are saying in this thread. It sounds silly but when you are faced with the possibility of falling thousands, literally thousands of feet, in your truck you will hopefully be even more cautious than necessary.
All of this being said, WHY on earth do you want to do Blackbear Pass? That part of Colorado has SO MANY amazing trails and places to visit/see. Alta lakes at 11,600' high, ghost towns everywhere, trails of varying difficulty etc. Unless its a bucket list thing (to say you've done blackbear) there are so many trails that are much more fun/interesting than Blackbear. Honestly if I had to get from Ouray to Telluride Id rather do Imogene 10/10 times when given the decision between blackbear or imogene. I get the feeling your mind is already made up. Be safe have fun and bring a nice camera.
:victory:
ttengineer
Adventurer
I plan on spending several days out there and riding as many trails as I can. BBP is just one on the list I wasn't sure was doable in my truck. Now that I know it is I plan on putting together a few different routes for a multi-day trip.
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1stDeuce
Explorer
Can you? Probably, if the road is in good condition. But just because you can do something doesn't necessarily mean you should...
The "difficulty" of BBP isn't really due to obstacles on the trial itself, nor to width limitations. Rather it's the possibility of even a small mistake in placement to have DIRE consequences in multiple places along the route. For taller/stiffer vehicles, the ledges before you reach the "point of no return" can be tricky. For those not willing to listen to their spotters, or prone to panicking when the vehicle slides a bit on loose rock, the actual point of no return itself can be tough. And finally, having negotiated to the "road" section, people seem to stop paying attention when heading down the switchbacks, making them possibly the most dangerous section.
Once you start down from the pass, there are almost no places to get around slower traffic, and on a busy day, it's pointless anyway. If someone between you and the bottom makes a mistake, BBP can quickly go from a multi-hour trip into an all day, and occasionally all night wait. In your case, with a LWB truck and possibly not as good as stock turning radius, you'll be holding things up at a few of the switchbacks as you make 10 or more point turns. There is at least one where you'll have only a few feet of back and forth wiggle room between front tires off the edge, and back bumper against the rock. Go try to turn 90° in a parking lot by only going 3' in either direction and see how long it takes... Width isn't the issue, it's length and turning radius. HMMWV's are wide, but they're not that long, and I'd bet they turn reasonably sharp compared to a PW.
The pass itself is pretty spectacular, so I would definitely recommend you drive up from 550 to check it out, but consider going back down to 550 again, rather than continuing down BB into Telluride. That way, you see the pass and the valley into Telluride, without possibly spending hours waiting for all the traffic to pass the "sketchy" sections. You can hit the pass and be back down to 550 in an hour and a half, and then continue several miles south on 550 and take Ophir pass over and into Telluride. Ophir pass itself is nothing to write home about, as it's a rock notch with no real view to speak of, but the drive up and back down are quite breathtaking. A few miles past Ophir there's a nice pull-out with some interesting signs about the railroad and area, which makes a great lunch stop. Then you continue into Telluride on head up Imogene toward Ouray. You'll be able to see the switchbacks and Bridal Vail from a few of the overlooks on Imogene as you climb out of town. There is much to see on Imogene, and old mining sites to explore on foot as well. You can easily do this circuit in one day, even if traffic is fairly busy.
If you really want to do BBP, I'd suggest a good check online, or a call to a local tour group just before going to make sure no trail damage (washouts, slides, etc) have occurred that would prevent you from making the turns with a longer vehicle. Telluride Outside runs it almost daily in full size short box Chevy's, so they would know for sure if it's passable. https://www.tellurideoutside.com/4wd-tour Switzerland of America in Ouray also runs BBP in 3/4 ton Dodges, so you could swing in and ask there as well.
I hope you enjoy your time in the San Juans!!!
The "difficulty" of BBP isn't really due to obstacles on the trial itself, nor to width limitations. Rather it's the possibility of even a small mistake in placement to have DIRE consequences in multiple places along the route. For taller/stiffer vehicles, the ledges before you reach the "point of no return" can be tricky. For those not willing to listen to their spotters, or prone to panicking when the vehicle slides a bit on loose rock, the actual point of no return itself can be tough. And finally, having negotiated to the "road" section, people seem to stop paying attention when heading down the switchbacks, making them possibly the most dangerous section.
Once you start down from the pass, there are almost no places to get around slower traffic, and on a busy day, it's pointless anyway. If someone between you and the bottom makes a mistake, BBP can quickly go from a multi-hour trip into an all day, and occasionally all night wait. In your case, with a LWB truck and possibly not as good as stock turning radius, you'll be holding things up at a few of the switchbacks as you make 10 or more point turns. There is at least one where you'll have only a few feet of back and forth wiggle room between front tires off the edge, and back bumper against the rock. Go try to turn 90° in a parking lot by only going 3' in either direction and see how long it takes... Width isn't the issue, it's length and turning radius. HMMWV's are wide, but they're not that long, and I'd bet they turn reasonably sharp compared to a PW.
The pass itself is pretty spectacular, so I would definitely recommend you drive up from 550 to check it out, but consider going back down to 550 again, rather than continuing down BB into Telluride. That way, you see the pass and the valley into Telluride, without possibly spending hours waiting for all the traffic to pass the "sketchy" sections. You can hit the pass and be back down to 550 in an hour and a half, and then continue several miles south on 550 and take Ophir pass over and into Telluride. Ophir pass itself is nothing to write home about, as it's a rock notch with no real view to speak of, but the drive up and back down are quite breathtaking. A few miles past Ophir there's a nice pull-out with some interesting signs about the railroad and area, which makes a great lunch stop. Then you continue into Telluride on head up Imogene toward Ouray. You'll be able to see the switchbacks and Bridal Vail from a few of the overlooks on Imogene as you climb out of town. There is much to see on Imogene, and old mining sites to explore on foot as well. You can easily do this circuit in one day, even if traffic is fairly busy.
If you really want to do BBP, I'd suggest a good check online, or a call to a local tour group just before going to make sure no trail damage (washouts, slides, etc) have occurred that would prevent you from making the turns with a longer vehicle. Telluride Outside runs it almost daily in full size short box Chevy's, so they would know for sure if it's passable. https://www.tellurideoutside.com/4wd-tour Switzerland of America in Ouray also runs BBP in 3/4 ton Dodges, so you could swing in and ask there as well.
I hope you enjoy your time in the San Juans!!!
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mikekey
Deplorable
Great advice. But, isn't it funny how we enjoy the trails where we have moments of regret about being on the trail or worry that I MIGHT DIE or roll my rig, that make it exciting.
Then when you tackle it, YEAH!!! :wings:LandCruiserPhil
Expedition Leader
You tube is your friend
This guy shows you how to do it in a full sized 4dr Dodge in the rain. Starts at ~11min mark
[video=youtube;axTG1HJ6zfc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1002&v=axTG1HJ6zfc[/video]
This guy shows you how to do it in a full sized 4dr Dodge in the rain. Starts at ~11min mark
[video=youtube;axTG1HJ6zfc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1002&v=axTG1HJ6zfc[/video]